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Erik Cole

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Why can`t we afford Cole and Staal?

Staal gets 8 million, Cole gets 6 million. Not a big deal. I doubt either would ask for that much anyway. You find ways to dump salary (Whitney, Kaberle, Wallin, Walker) to keep your best players. After next season the cap will be close to $60 million.

We might be forgetting Karmanos is a successful buisness man, and he is coming to Raleigh to help market the team.

What do all of you think this "top pairing defenseman" you want us to acquire for Cole is going to ask for...those guys go for 5-7 million these days.

Its not about the best players, its about the right players.

You dont have to get the best defenseman out there, but you need a good one.

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Ok, so Staal gets 8 million, Cole gets 6 million, Ward gets "X" million.

That's at least a 1/4 of the league cap set to 3 players. That's foolish.

And we're not asking for the best defenseman out there. We're hoping to shed some salary by trading off Cole's 4 million for a cheaper, good, young defenseman.

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Who says Staal will get 8 mil. JR isn't going to give any play 8 mil. Staal will be given 6-7 mil at the most. I don't believe any player is worth 8 mil. Thats just too much.

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Why can`t we afford Cole and Staal?

Staal gets 8 million, Cole gets 6 million. Not a big deal. I doubt either would ask for that much anyway. You find ways to dump salary (Whitney, Kaberle, Wallin, Walker) to keep your best players. After next season the cap will be close to $60 million.

We might be forgetting Karmanos is a successful buisness man, and he is coming to Raleigh to help market the team.

The Hurricanes are not having a budget anywhere close to $60M. We had a $44M budget last season and lost money.

What do all of you think this "top pairing defenseman" you want us to acquire for Cole is going to ask for...those guys go for 5-7 million these days.
It's a lot smarter to invest your money in a center (Staal)+goalie (Ward)+defenseman(?) than a center+goalie+winger (Cole). Staal is a franchise player who will score no matter who he plays with. Paying a complimentary winger $6M to play with him is ridiculous and unnecessary.

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The Hurricanes are not having a budget anywhere close to $60M. We had a $44M budget last season and lost money.

It's a lot smarter to invest your money in a center (Staal)+goalie (Ward)+defenseman(?) than a center+goalie+winger (Cole). Staal is a franchise player who will score no matter who he plays with. Paying a complimentary winger $6M to play with him is ridiculous and unnecessary.

See: Ovechkin

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Why can`t we afford Cole and Staal?

Staal gets 8 million, Cole gets 6 million. Not a big deal. I doubt either would ask for that much anyway. You find ways to dump salary (Whitney, Kaberle, Wallin, Walker) to keep your best players. After next season the cap will be close to $60 million.

We might be forgetting Karmanos is a successful buisness man, and he is coming to Raleigh to help market the team.

What do all of you think this "top pairing defenseman" you want us to acquire for Cole is going to ask for...those guys go for 5-7 million these days.

Its not about the best players, its about the right players.

You dont have to get the best defenseman out there, but you need a good one.

First you do realize that this team will not spend to the cap. Second you do realize that Karmanos has lost money the 9 years that he has been in NC and you want him to spend $6M on a 30 year old injury prone winger :blink:

The cap this year is rumored to be going up to $56M, JR will likely get to spend $50M, just b/c the cap goes up, doesn't mean JR has all that money to play with.

We're not going for the best defenseman, but in order to get a 'good' defenseman we still have to give something good to get something good. And when people mention why can't we trade Kaberle, Wallin, Whitney etc for that defenseman its just not reality. And I don't think trading Whitney is going to get you a top defenseman unless another forward goes with him. Yeah he's done great on our team, but its likely the style of play that he does great in. Put him in the west and I doubt he puts up the same numbers.

One of Cole or Williams is likely gone at the deadline. Teams are not giving up their defenseman for our old guys or low pairng defensive guys.

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Oh, Staal will be asking for $7 to $8 million. He might not be worth $8 million yet but he's put up some good numbers. If he continues to put up good numbers, then he can ask for that amount. If he doesn't get it, he will take a one year deal and wait for free agency. Ideally, it would be great if his cap hit is $6.5-$7 million.

Ward, at the moment, won't get more than $4 million. He has to put up much, much better numbers than this past season.

Cole is not worth $6 million. He's only hit 30 goals once and hasn't reach 60 pts once. If JR pays him $6 million, the Canes are on the losing end of this deal.

Cole is great but the Canes need a top 4 defensemen more than they need another winger. If we want to contend, then someone has to be moved.

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I also think some people forget that this is a business. While Cole may be loved, if it's not in the budget, it's not in the budget. Factories, companies have to cut the budget because of one thing or another. Soooo, they cut some salaries or employees. Cole is an employee, who's probably going to make around 4 mil as everyone else says.. so cut the budget.

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Ok, so Staal gets 8 million, Cole gets 6 million, Ward gets "X" million.

That's at least a 1/4 of the league cap set to 3 players. That's foolish.

And we're not asking for the best defenseman out there. We're hoping to shed some salary by trading off Cole's 4 million for a cheaper, good, young defenseman.

Yeah, we don't exactly want to become another Tampa Bay.

Besides, saying we can dump players like Walker, Whitney, Kaberle, and Wallin, what are we going to replace them with? It's not like any of them are highly overpaid. Even with all the bashing Kaberle and Wallin get from this board, their contracts aren't exactly that bad when you compare them to what most other free agents are making out there (okay, Kaberle I wish were signed for less, but let's be realistic here). If we replace them with players that cost less, then our D is really going to suck. You think Kaberle and Wallin are bad, just see what we'd have then. Not to mention we'll have no money under this scenario to go out and get any good D to replace Wesley and Hedican whether via trade or free agency. So even more crappy D players.

Let's face it. We're a small, non-traditional market team. There's no way unless businesses and fans start to flock to games, where there are waiting lists just to get season tickets like in Toronto even though they're charging us hundreds of dollars per game for the nose bleed seats, and corporations are throwing tons of money in the hope they might get a chance of beating the others in getting their names plastered around the boards for supporting the Canes. Maybe then we could start spending to the full salary cap and be able to afford more than one top caliber player like Staal. Until then, there's going to be some serious decisions to be made in where to cut back.

Or we could put it this way. Would we rather see both Staal and Cole kept but get rid of most of the rest of our team in order to keep them and replaced with a bunch of no-name players that most likely belong in the AHL, or do we consider trading away a top forward that will cost us too much so we can keep those other players? Just take a look at the salaries on the teams and factor in where they will likely go in the future and when, and you understand why Cole is the most likely one to get traded.

It's nothing personal, just business.

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First, one of our top forwards HAS to go. We have 10 top forwards and that assumes that LaRose ends up back on the 4th line (which is fine with me). So it's a matter of who goes.

Cole had a bad year last year (by his standards and payscale). His production was way down and he took as many penalties as he drew. He has never been a great passer and he wasn't finishing scoring chances. Still, he has been in the league a while and developed a reputation as a top forward, put the hurt on a couple of teams that might want him and clearly has shown the potential to be an all-star caliber player. Thus it is conceivable that at least a few GMs would be willing to part with a very good defenseman to get him. Look at the bulk of the teams in the West, they don't have a ton of top scorers. We NEED a top defenseman. We would improve drastically with one. We missed the playoffs by one game. If we improve drastically we are in and could make a run.

If we keep Cole the odds are that he will either return to form or continue to struggle. If he struggles, then clearly his value will plummet since it will appear that he has lost it. Plus, the Canes will suffer for the lack of productivity especially from a guy that draws his salary. If he returns to form, we will have a guy who will battle Staal for the best offensive player on the team, and the team will do well, but we will probably not be able to afford him after that. He will be almost a rental player for next year.

It all depends on what JR can actually get for him (what is his actual value on the market). If no one will offer a decent return, then we will have to keep him. But then some other top forward will have to go. If JR can get a star defenseman in return, he will do it. Of course, I could be wrong.

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Ok, now I understand. Cole is both pathetic, and unaffordable 'cause he is so good.

I'm confused.

Man, you might as well give it up. Erik has been everybody's favorite whipping boy since he broke his neck (and even before that for some). I can't explain it. I post on three boards and have pretty much given up defending him, it's a losing cause.

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I also think some people forget that this is a business. While Cole may be loved, if it's not in the budget, it's not in the budget. Factories, companies have to cut the budget because of one thing or another. Soooo, they cut some salaries or employees. Cole is an employee, who's probably going to make around 4 mil as everyone else says.. so cut the budget.

I agree, If we can pick up some very solid dmen that can jump in on a play then we can make up for what we lose in trading Cole. There was I time I would have been POed about such a trade but not now. We need D and if we have to trade Cole and maybe Kabs I say JR "Go for it!"

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Man, you might as well give it up. Erik has been everybody's favorite whipping boy since he broke his neck (and even before that for some). I can't explain it. I post on three boards and have pretty much given up defending him, it's a losing cause.

I dont consider him a whipping boy. I feel indifferent about him. Never been high on my list, but I never threw him under the bus. But what I see is a UFA who had a bad year last year, who has the potential to be a top 3 forward for almost any other club. Putting aside emotions, the smart business move would be to try to sell. Sell high would be good, but we'll have to see what JR can get for him. If the market sucks, then keep him for half the year until trade deadline, and if he's doing great, then let's see what else we can do. If not, or if we're not doing great, trade him for some prospects or some more D.

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First, havent had time to read the whole thread, my apologies:

My thoughts on Cole, whom I like a lot but I have to comment on:

1) 2nd Highest pay on the team, but plays less minutes then Staal, or Rod. Often is 4th or less in minutes.

2) Not good enough passing skills to play the PP, not good enough defensively to play the PK. Rarely on special teams.

3) Streaky player, but not known for game winners. More of a create offense for himself kind of guy rather then an integral part of the offense.

4) Great with the fans and much loved. Always gives back to the community and the community loves him for it.

5) Many rumors leaked out after the last contract negotiations that Erik wanted a SHORTER contract rather then a long one so he "could consider moving to a BIGGER MARKET team." Erik was offered a good deal imo for a guy with a broken neck and by a team unsure how he would physically respond, and negotated like a guy that was counting his days to get to a "hockey" market. Again I am an Cole fan but that what was reported.

Did I say yet this power forward that is so-so defensively, isnt a great passer, isn't valuble on special teams, scored 30 goals only once, averages being healthy for 69 games a year (only complete season 2001-2), isn't top 3 in TOI, ----- is 2nd highest paid on our team and didnt want to committ to longer here so he could keep his options open TO LEAVE after a year he broke his neck?

As a comparitive,

J Willie has scored over 30 goals twice since the lockout, (Cole probably would have the SC year had he not been injured), averages about 8-10 more assists then Cole per year, is valuble on the PP, valuble on the PK makes less money than Cole AND committed to be here until at least his UFA year of 2011/12.

Now I am an Erik Cole fan (and J Willie too for that matter), but even ardent fans have to see whats wrong with these facts.

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Man, you might as well give it up. Erik has been everybody's favorite whipping boy since he broke his neck (and even before that for some). I can't explain it. I post on three boards and have pretty much given up defending him, it's a losing cause.

it has nothing to do with breaking his neck, this is a business!! you have a person that will be a UFA next season, is always difficult to negotiate with. you have two choices, trade him now because he has a real high value or let him walk away and get nothing!! if he was still an RFA we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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First, havent had time to read the whole thread, my apologies:

My thoughts on Cole, whom I like a lot but I have to comment on:

1) 2nd Highest pay on the team, but plays less minutes then Staal, or Rod. Often is 4th or less in minutes.

2) Not good enough passing skills to play the PP, not good enough defensively to play the PK. Rarely on special teams.

3) Streaky player, but not known for game winners. More of a create offense for himself kind of guy rather then an integral part of the offense.

4) Great with the fans and much loved. Always gives back to the community and the community loves him for it.

5) Many rumors leaked out after the last contract negotiations that Erik wanted a SHORTER contract rather then a long one so he "could consider moving to a BIGGER MARKET team." Erik was offered a good deal imo for a guy with a broken neck and by a team unsure how he would physically respond, and negotated like a guy that was counting his days to get to a "hockey" market. Again I am an Cole fan but that what was reported.

Did I say yet this power forward that is so-so defensively, isnt a great passer, isn't valuble on special teams, scored 30 goals only once, averages being healthy for 69 games a year (only complete season 2001-2), isn't top 3 in TOI, ----- is 2nd highest paid on our team and didnt want to committ to longer here so he could keep his options open TO LEAVE after a year he broke his neck?

As a comparitive,

J Willie has scored over 30 goals twice since the lockout, (Cole probably would have the SC year had he not been injured), averages about 8-10 more assists then Cole per year, is valuble on the PP, valuble on the PK makes less money than Cole AND committed to be here until at least his UFA year of 2011/12.

Now I am an Erik Cole fan (and J Willie too for that matter), but even ardent fans have to see whats wrong with these facts.

Nice.

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Man, you might as well give it up. Erik has been everybody's favorite whipping boy since he broke his neck (and even before that for some). I can't explain it. I post on three boards and have pretty much given up defending him, it's a losing cause.

So let me get this straight. You post on 3 boards, and all 3 boards are saying Cole's our best commoditity and would give us the most value in a trade. Yet, you somehow still deny that to be true?

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If we keep Cole the odds are that he will either return to form or continue to struggle. If he struggles, then clearly his value will plummet since it will appear that he has lost it. Plus, the Canes will suffer for the lack of productivity especially from a guy that draws his salary. If he returns to form, we will have a guy who will battle Staal for the best offensive player on the team, and the team will do well, but we will probably not be able to afford him after that. He will be almost a rental player for next year.

It all depends on what JR can actually get for him (what is his actual value on the market). If no one will offer a decent return, then we will have to keep him. But then some other top forward will have to go. If JR can get a star defenseman in return, he will do it. Of course, I could be wrong.

This is the best argument I have read yet. This I can buy. Viewed through this perspective an argument can be made that we can't keep either Cole, the good one or the bad one.

Good points.

I just hope if he is traded we get good return for him. I don't believe all of the folks who claim GM's are licking their chops to trade for him. I think they are licking their chops to steal him since he has put in 2 seasons that put JR in awful negotiating position.

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So let me get this straight. You post on 3 boards, and all 3 boards are saying Cole's our best commoditity and would give us the most value in a trade. Yet, you somehow still deny that to be true?

Frogman, I love ya, but just because a bunch of fans on message boards say Cole is our best commodity doesn't make it true. I wish we could listen in on the conversations with the GMs and see if it really is true. I have a feeling that most of the negative arguments being made in this discussion have not escaped GMs from other teams either. They can't feel very sure he is going to return to form either.

I still return to the undeniable fact that you lose the trade-game if you trade away value for less than what it is worth. The reason we have talent on our team for less money is the great job JR has done making sure he is on the upside of the trade, not the downside. Most of the arguments in this thread continue to point out that Cole's perceived value is likely lower than his actual value, unless he truly is never going to return to pre-Orpik form.

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Man, you might as well give it up. Erik has been everybody's favorite whipping boy since he broke his neck (and even before that for some). I can't explain it. I post on three boards and have pretty much given up defending him, it's a losing cause.

Check my user name, I love Cole just as much as the next person, but I'm ready to face reality. Do I want to see Cole retire a Cane........YES. Do I want to see Cole on another team..........NO. Will I support Cole no matter where he ends up...........YES.

However, I look at this team and I see defense as a weakness. Then I look at our forwards and unfortunetly I see Cole as the guy JR tries to use as bait. If bringing in a top defenseman, moving Cole's $4M off the books is going to help with the team cap. Not to mention he becomes a Free Agent after this season so you are getting something for him rather than loosing him for nothing. Like another poster said: if he has a good year, we are priced out; if he falters, we will be lucky to get a pick for him at the deadline, then you aren't going to want to sign him again anyway b/c it shows he is on the decline.

I am frankly tired of missing the playoffs for the last 2 years. I want to get back to playoff hockey. I don't care if its only one round, I want the playoffs back in Raleigh. In order to do that, we need to improve our defense. If trading Cole does that and allows us to have playoff hockey back in Raleigh, then I don't see why we shouldn't do it. It's what is best for the team.

However, with all that being said, I in no way think Cole is 100% gone. I do think Williams or Ruutu + (LaRose, Hamilton, prospect) could be gone for a defenseman. I just look at the 3 and I see Cole as the one JR will likely try to use as bait b/c Williams is younger/cheaper/better player. Ruutu IMO is more physical and younger.

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Cole being hit as a whipping boy since his neck injury is a ridicolous comment....

This team, fanbase and even community has never in 10 years rallied around a injured played as they did for Cole, I cant believe you'd say that. He's a UFA next year what dont you see about that? His neck is not a reason I want to try to get something for him before he tests the market. Absolutely unjust comment for this debate...your making us out to be villians. If you cant put your finger on why he's the whipping boy then you've got no reason to believe it.

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It looks like Cole may have decided to go for an extended career. He can play balls to the wall crash the net hockey, and score at a 30 goal+ clip for as long as he can stay healthy, or he can take it down a notch, score 20, but get to play 70+ games and have a much lower risk of injury. And more importantly for him, play for another 7 or 8 years instead of serious risk for career ending injuries.

I think that's actually a good idea if a team can make the playoffs, and then he can kick it up a notch. But being paid 4 million on a small market team, and being slotted next to the Canes best scorer, it isn't an ideal fit.

I will say that I think people are underrating his defense, forgetting that he led the team in hits last season, and are unfairly comparing his scoring stats with Cullen and Staal despite him not being the focal point on the powerplay or being a center. (A stat: Cullen 33 hits, Cole 186)

Finally, he's a tough guy to replace. Its almost certainly going to be a downgrade in either physicality or scoring on the top line. If they keep Whitney with Staal, the guy on the other side is going to have a lot of responsibility on the defensive end and along the boards.

Personally, I'd rather see Whitney traded, as I think we have a lot of guys who you can put in the slot, and ask them to find the net and not much else. But because the need for a defensman is so desperate, I think you have to trade Cole to get the level of player that is needed.

It's really a crappy situation all around. Maybe the canes will get lucky and fleece someone out of a defensman with some smoke and mirrors trade, and it will all be moot!

edit: one thing to remember too, is the Erik Cole plays playoff style hockey. Watching the Detroit forwards bang the Pittsburgh forwards into submission makes me think that Cole might not be missed severely during the regular season, but come playoff time, he will be missed very badly. Creates his own offense, hits everybody, defensively responsible...

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It looks like Cole may have decided to go for an extended career. He can play balls to the wall crash the net hockey, and score at a 30 goal+ clip for as long as he can stay healthy, or he can take it down a notch, score 20, but get to play 70+ games and have a much lower risk of injury. And more importantly for him, play for another 7 or 8 years instead of serious risk for career ending injuries.

I think that's actually a good idea if a team can make the playoffs, and then he can kick it up a notch. But being paid 4 million on a small market team, and being slotted next to the Canes best scorer, it isn't an ideal fit.

I will say that I think people are underrating his defense, forgetting that he led the team in hits last season, and are unfairly comparing his scoring stats with Cullen and Staal despite him not being the focal point on the powerplay or being a center. (A stat: Cullen 33 hits, Cole 186)

Finally, he's a tough guy to replace. Its almost certainly going to be a downgrade in either physicality or scoring on the top line. If they keep Whitney with Staal, the guy on the other side is going to have a lot of responsibility on the defensive end and along the boards.

Personally, I'd rather see Whitney traded, as I think we have a lot of guys who you can put in the slot, and ask them to find the net and not much else. But because the need for a defensman is so desperate, I think you have to trade Cole to get the level of player that is needed.

It's really a crappy situation all around. Maybe the canes will get lucky and fleece someone out of a defensman with some smoke and mirrors trade, and it will all be moot!

edit: one thing to remember too, is the Erik Cole plays playoff style hockey. Watching the Detroit forwards bang the Pittsburgh forwards into submission makes me think that Cole might not be missed severely during the regular season, but come playoff time, he will be missed very badly. Creates his own offense, hits everybody, defensively responsible...

You make some excellent points. The playoff thing though, we went all the way through the playoffs, through Montreal, NJ, Buffalo, and most of Edmoton to the cup without him. He was not a major factor in the two games he did play in (not that he should have been expected to, but he really had almost no impact on our playoff run to the cup).

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