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StateColeFan

Erik Cole

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You make some excellent points. The playoff thing though, we went all the way through the playoffs, through Montreal, NJ, Buffalo, and most of Edmoton to the cup without him. He was not a major factor in the two games he did play in (not that he should have been expected to, but he really had almost no impact on our playoff run to the cup).

Sure he did...he drew the cup winning goal penalty.

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Yes, that was nice, but the point remains that we got 99% of the SC playoff run done without him.

Still, ideally I would trade one of the other forwards and take a chance on Cole returning to form, he has the skill. Just not sure what it will take to get that big time dman, and we need him more than we need any forward not named Staal.

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You make some excellent points. The playoff thing though, we went all the way through the playoffs, through Montreal, NJ, Buffalo, and most of Edmoton to the cup without him. He was not a major factor in the two games he did play in (not that he should have been expected to, but he really had almost no impact on our playoff run to the cup).

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=260619007''>http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=260619007' target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=260619007[/post]

He had 9 hits in 12 minutes of ice time in game 7 (the edm forwards had 13 total) on top of drawing that penalty.

Regardless, I concede you are right :) But I think with the substitution with pickup Recchi who played a similar game to Cole, and the physicality on that team when they still had Commodore, Ladd, Wesley,Craig Adams, Recchi, and Aaron Ward covered up the skill set that was lost.

Now its more like Gleason and Ruutuu, maybe Seidenberg as guys who can be expected to put damaging hits on people.

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Man, you might as well give it up. Erik has been everybody's favorite whipping boy since he broke his neck (and even before that for some). I can't explain it. I post on three boards and have pretty much given up defending him, it's a losing cause.

I give up also. But its going to be dumb of us trading him instead of whitney, even if whitney brings in a little less.

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It doesn't have to be Cole, but it will be a forward and/or combination of prospects/picks that will bring in a top 4 defensemen via trade.

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So, it seems people are worried about budget.

Lets assume JR will go $1 million more that last years self imposed budget...putting this years budget at about $50 million, around $6 million below the cap for next season.

If this was our roster, which it would be possible, we would...

1. Be in great budget shape, for signing Cole, Staal, ect.

2. Be a pretty dang good team.

(Cap hits for 08/09, with salaries RFA`s will probably get)

Cullen 2.8 - Staal 5 - Cole 4

Samsonov 2.3 - Brind`amour 4 - Williams 3.5

Eaves 1.1 - Ruutu 2.5 - Walker 2.5

Conboy .65 - Sutter .787 - Larose .75

Hamilton .8

Gleason 2.8 - Pitkanen 3 (Acquired for Whitney, Wallin, 4th rd pick)

Corvo 2.75 - 3 *signed UFA (Hainsey, Roszival, Liles, Mara)

Kaberle 2.2 - 1.7 (signed UFA Salvador)

Borer .510

Ward 2.5

Leighton .8

That puts us right at $ 50 million, either at or probably a little below JR`s budget.

If that time is ours, and can stay healthy, then we have a great chance at winning.

That team also leaves us plenty of space to re-sign Staal AND Cole, especially if JR could back-load them, since Kaberle`s 2.2 and Walker`s 2.5 come off the years after the Eric(k)`s contracts run out.

Now I am totally guessing from the news articles/ rumors I have read for the salaries of Ruutu, Gleason, the two UFA defensemen we would sign, Larose, Conboy and Leighton.

Their salaries would probably be less than that though...giving us more budget room.

I say we sign Salvador because he is a veteran, but not old, and can really block shots well. Jaroslav Modry or Mattias Norstrom may be cheaper, but older options for the 3rd pairing and PK also.

Corvo wants to be paired with an offensive defenseman...so if we can get someone like Ron Hainsey or Paul Mara who has size and is decently good defending, it would be best, and i think we could get one of them for around 3 million.

Having Conboy on the 4th line adds the size, energy, toughness, and an extra defensemen if needed. Larose and Sutter can both take shifts anywhere in the top 9 or kill penalties.

(I hear the Sutter boy can hit as well)

Whitney, Wallin and a 4th round pick is fair for the rights to Pitkanen, who we would affordably sign for 3 million.

All jokes aside, with signing all our RFA`s as JR says he intends to, other than Seidenberg, One simple trade, two RFA signings, and we`re back in the playoffs and back as a contender for the cup.

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Well then, keep everything the same except deal Kaberle, whitney, and a pick (anything other than 1st, unless we get a 1st back) to Chicago for Cam Barker, or Nashville for Suter.

Wow, i never saw a thing when pitkanen wanted 5+

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Well then, keep everything the same except deal Kaberle, whitney, and a pick (anything other than 1st, unless we get a 1st back) to Chicago for Cam Barker, or Nashville for Suter.

Wow, i never saw a thing when pitkanen wanted 5+

Long time reader/first time poster...

There is absolutely NO WAY that you are going to get a young defenseman for our garbage! Whitney is getting up there in age and a young team like Chicago is not going to take on his salary for 2 more yrs, much less Kaberle's until 2010. Please understand this principle in any more of your proposals...TO GET YOU HAVE TO GIVE!!! To acquire the defenseman we need, we will have to sacrifice one of Cole, Williams, Ruutu or Eaves. No getting around that.

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Good post and welcome to the boards, even though it seems like you've been here a while!

A simple rule to remember is quality over quantity. I think it was ColesyLaRosefan that said it earlier, this isn't NHL 08, you have to give to get.

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Whitney isnt exactly garbage. Is 61 points in 66 games garbage? Is a second round pick garbage? Everyone seems to talk about how good whitney is, except for when it is him getting traded.

Its clearly misunderstood that Barker is a top young defeseman in the League. He is not. He could be, he should be, but hasnt gotten there yet. Chicago has four better young D-men than Barker; Keith, Seabrook, James Wisniewski, and Dustin Byfulien. Barker is one of those high draft picks that just needs a change of scenery to get it going. It is easy for us to let go of Whitney, Williams, or Cole because we have tons of forwards, and need defense. It is easy for Chicago to let go of Keith because they are deep with young defense, and need forwards.

Enough of the NHL 08 jokes, because you could get Seabrook and Keith for Whitney on there.

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Enough of the NHL 08 jokes, because you could get Seabrook and Keith for Whitney on there.

Which is the joke, you can get them on NHL 08 for whitney, but this isn't NHL 08 it's real life and a lot harder than that.

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Please let me clarify...Whitney is not garbage. I was referring to Kaberle. Whitney, I would argue is an integral part of our powerplay. He's our playmaker from the half-wall w/ a right hand shot. IMHO Whitney is more important to the team than Cole. Cole provides a physical spark and sometimes scores, but it's nothing that can't be replaced w/ the re-signing of Ruutu(physical play, younger, more versatile) and the signing of Eaves(younger, cheaper, has scored 20goals much quicker than Cole did with minimal icetime). Don't get me wrong, I would like to keep a first line of Cole-Staal-Whitney, but given the facts that Cole is UFA at the end of this yr, has had problems in the past signing, and our defensive corps in in the shape it is, he is the most moveable asset. Williams would probably bring in a better d-man, but his contributions to the team are not as easily replaced as Cole's not to mention Williams is signed at a great rate for 3 more yrs. Eaves could probably attract some attention, but he was just re-signed to the type of contract JR is famous for. Ruutu could be a different story, but if he were traded straight up, his value alone would not bring the caliber of d-man we need...JR has some very tough decisions to make...

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Here's a good site that shows what Canes players are signed to: http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?tea...amp;season=0708

When you evaluate it thoroughly and realistically, it doesn't leave much in the way of options in who the Canes could and should be willing to trade. Especially when you take into account salaries for not just this upcoming season, but several years in advance.

Personally, I just want to see a trade where we get back good value for what we trade away.

Somebody that the fans won't want to see leave is going to go. It's just a matter of who. The thing is while many of us may be upset shortly after the trade is announced, what is more important is how happy we are with it after the end of next season when we see what we really got back.

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Here's a good site that shows what Canes players are signed to: http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=CAR&season=0708' target="_blank">http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?tea...amp;season=0708[/post]

When you evaluate it thoroughly and realistically, it doesn't leave much in the way of options in who the Canes could and should be willing to trade. Especially when you take into account salaries for not just this upcoming season, but several years in advance.

Personally, I just want to see a trade where we get back good value for what we trade away.

Somebody that the fans won't want to see leave is going to go. It's just a matter of who. The thing is while many of us may be upset shortly after the trade is announced, what is more important is how happy we are with it after the end of next season when we see what we really got back.

Like the Commie/Stiller for Eaves/Corvo trade. People huffed and puffed, saying stiller loved playing here and wanted to retire here.... oh Corvo sucks, Eaves is always injured, we won't even see him...

Corvo came, Corvo saw, Corvo scored. He helped bring the offense for the defense. Eaves, while he was injured, came back and showed us some of what he has. I don't think we saw what he truly has, so I'm excited to see what we're in store for next year with him.

Anyway, Stiller and Commie were UFA's, who were probably going to get more than we wanted to give. Cole will want more than we want to give, so hopefully we can trade for good value. I only hope he goes to the West so we won't have to see him score on us or have a great contract year and lot's of people will regret the trade, even if it does help the D immensely.

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Well then, keep everything the same except deal Kaberle, whitney, and a pick (anything other than 1st, unless we get a 1st back) to Chicago for Cam Barker, or Nashville for Suter.

Wow, i never saw a thing when pitkanen wanted 5+

Let's break this down:

Kaberle is 33 years old. Has a cap hit of $2.2M for the next 2 years. He is no more than a #5-6 defenseman. Has only put up decent points once (05-06) and is very soft.

Whitney is 35 years old. Has a cap hit of $3.55M for the next 2 years. He has groin issues and is a product of the system. He isn't getting any younger

You want to trade them for one of:

Cam Barker who is 21 years old and has the potential to be a top 4 defenseman.

Ryan Suter who is 22 years old and will be a top 4 defenseman.

You just can't trade aging players who had 1 good season or who is a product of the system for these young kids. GMs are not stupid. And have you even looked at each team's needs?

Nashville needs a physical top 6 forward. Who does this fit on the Canes (Cole and Ruutu). However Ruutu is really a 3rd liner, no more. Which is why he is being hard to sign b/c JR has him slotted for the 3rd line making 3rd line money, whereas Ruutu and his agent have him slotted as a top 6 guy wanting top 6 money.

Chicago well frankly I'm not sure what they need.

IMHO, our best team to trade with at this point is Vancouver. They need a top 6 winger to play with the Sedins. They need to be more physical up front and have the defense to use as trade. JR has always liked Bieksa who is signed to a decent contract: 11.35M for the next 3 years.

Are you now starting to see why we can't just trade Whitney or Kaberle. Like I've said many times, I'm not saying its going to be Cole but its going to be one of Cole, Williams, Ruutu, or Eaves. Teams don't want our old or non producing players for their younger better players.

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Eaves and Williams are have too good of contracts to trade; JR`s magic at its best.

Ruutu brings speed and can hit very well, something we need.

You can hope to win now and hold on to Cole...it would be a smart thing to do to hold him because its his contract year and even if he plays like a top 5 wing in the league and commands $6 million plus, what does it matter is he leaves via free agency if we win, or come close next year?

What if Walker would waive his NTC and trade him, Whitney, and Kaberle to Vancouver for Beiska? or the same deal to Nashville for Suter? Even add a pick.

Whitney is useless. Samsonov is better in every sense, cheaper, and younger.

Walker is easily replaced by Ruutu and Sutter.

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Whitney isnt exactly garbage. Is 61 points in 66 games garbage? Is a second round pick garbage? Everyone seems to talk about how good whitney is, except for when it is him getting traded.

Whitney is useless.

What?

What if Walker would waive his NTC and trade him, Whitney, and Kaberle to Vancouver for Beiska? or the same deal to Nashville for Suter? Even add a pick.

Whitney is useless.

Okay once again, you can't just throw on all of your old players and get a young star. Whitney is 35, Kaberle is 33 and Walker is almost 35. Remember, quality over quantity. You can't just throw more players on to help the deal unless the players have a lot of value. Yes, Whitney and Walker are good players for us, but they don't have too much value when your trading for a 22 year old star defenseman. Kaberle just lessens the value of the deal, so there's no use in adding him there. And another thing is now we are going to have to put LaRose on the 3rd line after this deal, and as much as I love him, he should be on the 4th line.

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I'd take another look at Whitney's career statistics before you call him a "product of the system". Three straight years with 60+ points with the Florida Panthers from '97-'00, two straight years with 60+ points with the Columbus Blue Jackets from '01-'03, and two straight years with 60+ points with the Carolina Hurricanes from '06-'08. As a matter of fact, in his 16 years in the NHL, Whitney has scored below 40 points in just five of those years and all five were years in which he didn't play the majority of the season.

Personally, I think Whitney's contract and production make him a more valuable pawn to trade than Cole. I just don't expect too many teams will line up to trade away a solid defenseman for a player they may only have for one year.

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Eaves and Williams are have too good of contracts to trade; JR`s magic at its best.

Ruutu brings speed and can hit very well, something we need.

You can hope to win now and hold on to Cole...it would be a smart thing to do to hold him because its his contract year and even if he plays like a top 5 wing in the league and commands $6 million plus, what does it matter is he leaves via free agency if we win, or come close next year?

What if Walker would waive his NTC and trade him, Whitney, and Kaberle to Vancouver for Beiska? or the same deal to Nashville for Suter? Even add a pick.

Whitney is useless. Samsonov is better in every sense, cheaper, and younger.

Walker is easily replaced by Ruutu and Sutter.

Do you just consult your Xbox every time you make a trade proposal?

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I'd take another look at Whitney's career statistics before you call him a "product of the system". Three straight years with 60+ points with the Florida Panthers from '97-'00, two straight years with 60+ points with the Columbus Blue Jackets from '01-'03, and two straight years with 60+ points with the Carolina Hurricanes from '06-'08. As a matter of fact, in his 16 years in the NHL, Whitney has scored below 40 points in just five of those years and all five were years in which he didn't play the majority of the season.

Personally, I think Whitney's contract and production make him a more valuable pawn to trade than Cole. I just don't expect too many teams will line up to trade away a solid defenseman for a player they may only have for one year.

So let me get this right. Do well and be traded? :blink:

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