Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
StateColeFan

Erik Cole

Recommended Posts

I doubt JR will trade Cole or Williams because they are the main support for Brindy and Staal. Break those guys up and our first two lines will be lacking. Whitney has a NTC, so he's probally going to stay. Ruutu and Eaves are the main trade targets because they both hold value, but their leaving also dosen't damage our core of forwards. I still think JR should look to FA because their are top D-men out there this year that he could get and not affect are strong forward lines. He should also think about bringing Babs back for depth at the blue line.

And remember, trying to guess at what JR is going to do is like playing Russian Roulette.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I doubt JR will trade Cole or Williams because they are the main support for Brindy and Staal. Break those guys up and our first two lines will be lacking. Whitney has a NTC, so he's probally going to stay. Ruutu and Eaves are the main trade targets because they both hold value, but their leaving also dosen't damage our core of forwards. I still think JR should look to FA because their are top D-men out there this year that he could get and not affect are strong forward lines. He should also think about bringing Babs back for depth at the blue line.

And remember, trying to guess at what JR is going to do is like playing Russian Roulette.

Stiller was also working quite well with Staal and Cole as well, and look where he went...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I doubt JR will trade Cole or Williams because they are the main support for Brindy and Staal. Break those guys up and our first two lines will be lacking. Whitney has a NTC, so he's probally going to stay. Ruutu and Eaves are the main trade targets because they both hold value, but their leaving also dosen't damage our core of forwards. I still think JR should look to FA because their are top D-men out there this year that he could get and not affect are strong forward lines. He should also think about bringing Babs back for depth at the blue line.

And remember, trying to guess at what JR is going to do is like playing Russian Roulette.

Staal led the team in points during the Playoffs. Cole was not available until the last 2 games. Staal does fine without Cole by his side. I don't understand why people tend to believe that Staal can't play without Cole. Yes they are buddies, but so was Staal and Ladd and we all know where Ladd ended up. And honestly if Staal can't play with Cole by his side, then we need to trade him b/c that isn't a franchise player.

Whitney does not have a NTC so there is no concern there.

Problem with Free Agency, we are not the only team that needs a top defenseman. We are a small market team which likely means we will be outbid by other teams. We just don't have the money to throw at guys. This is Rutherfords concern as well as he has already stated that he will go the trade route to get his 'good' defenseman. He's already said signing a depth defenseman won't do us any good. The available defenseman through Free agency is going to cost him an arm and a leg once teams get in the bidding war. He's going to look for a good defenseman who is signed to a reasonable contract and try to work a deal out with that team using our glut of forwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staal led the team in points during the Playoffs. Cole was not available until the last 2 games. Staal does fine without Cole by his side. I don't understand why people tend to believe that Staal can't play without Cole. Yes they are buddies, but so was Staal and Ladd and we all know where Ladd ended up. And honestly if Staal can't play with Cole by his side, then we need to trade him b/c that isn't a franchise player.

Whitney does not have a NTC so there is no concern there.

Problem with Free Agency, we are not the only team that needs a top defenseman. We are a small market team which likely means we will be outbid by other teams. We just don't have the money to throw at guys. This is Rutherfords concern as well as he has already stated that he will go the trade route to get his 'good' defenseman. He's already said signing a depth defenseman won't do us any good. The available defenseman through Free agency is going to cost him an arm and a leg once teams get in the bidding war. He's going to look for a good defenseman who is signed to a reasonable contract and try to work a deal out with that team using our glut of forwards.

Your right about the no NTC with Whitney. I thought all the W players had one (Wes, Wlaker, and Wallin). And STaal did lead the league in the playoffs in points without Cole, but Staal does tend to play better with Cole in the regular season. And yes, FA can cost an arm and a leg, but trading top forwards on an offense first team for a top defenseman doesn't seem to make as much sense as spending the money and getting a top defenseman and keeping a really solid and strong offensive core together. There are a lot of good defensemen FAs out there that can be grabbed. It will cost more money, but it won't cost our offense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cole seemed to become Staal's enforcer. Everytime someone slammed on Staal, Cole was the first one who slammed on them back. I really enjoyed seeing the way he has taken Staal under his wing like a younger brother. This is where he got a lot of his penalties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cole seemed to become Staal's enforcer. Everytime someone slammed on Staal, Cole was the first one who slammed on them back. I really enjoyed seeing the way he has taken Staal under his wing like a younger brother. This is where he got a lot of his penalties.

The Minnesota game comes to mind when you think about this. Very true, but if Staal can't play without Cole, what's the use in having Staal.

And congrats on 4000 post CLF!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your right about the no NTC with Whitney. I thought all the W players had one (Wes, Wlaker, and Wallin). And STaal did lead the league in the playoffs in points without Cole, but Staal does tend to play better with Cole in the regular season. And yes, FA can cost an arm and a leg, but trading top forwards on an offense first team for a top defenseman doesn't seem to make as much sense as spending the money and getting a top defenseman and keeping a really solid and strong offensive core together. There are a lot of good defensemen FAs out there that can be grabbed. It will cost more money, but it won't cost our offense.

The thing is we have 10 top forwards and only 9 spots. Someone has to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Minnesota game comes to mind when you think about this. Very true, but if Staal can't play without Cole, what's the use in having Staal.

And congrats on 4000 post CLF!

Staal will play just fine without Cole or any other player, he'll hate doing it, but he will get the job done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The thing is we have 10 top forwards and only 9 spots. Someone has to go.

Exactly.

And has anyone else looked at the situation for our FA's, and seen that our forward lineup may very well look a lot different this next season than most seem to expect? We've already got 10 forwards signed. Then add in that we have LaRose, Brookbank, Letowski, Ruutu, Aucoin and Bayda left unsigned? Of those only LaRose and Ruutu are RFA's. In addition to that Dwyer, Jensen, and Nolan are RFA's.

You may say that we still have the 4th line to fill out, but JR has already stated that our 4th line needs to get bigger. That takes most of those players off the list.

I personally won't be surprised at all if we see not only a big trade for a D-man, but also some other players moved for prospects or picks, players for the 4th line, or dropped outright. There might end up being a lot of Canes fans shocked at the moves JR makes this summer, but this may be exactly what the team really needs to get back in the race as a true contender.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Exactly.

And has anyone else looked at the situation for our FA's, and seen that our forward lineup may very well look a lot different this next season than most seem to expect? We've already got 10 forwards signed. Then add in that we have LaRose, Brookbank, Letowski, Ruutu, Aucoin and Bayda left unsigned? Of those only LaRose and Ruutu are RFA's. In addition to that Dwyer, Jensen, and Nolan are RFA's.

You may say that we still have the 4th line to fill out, but JR has already stated that our 4th line needs to get bigger. That takes most of those players off the list.

I personally won't be surprised at all if we see not only a big trade for a D-man, but also some other players moved for prospects or picks, players for the 4th line, or dropped outright. There might end up being a lot of Canes fans shocked at the moves JR makes this summer, but this may be exactly what the team really needs to get back in the race as a true contender.

You missed Conboy, who is a RFA and I hope re-signed. He's big and just as good at fighting as brookbank was for us, and he plays everywhere and is better than brookbank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your right about the no NTC with Whitney. I thought all the W players had one (Wes, Wlaker, and Wallin). And STaal did lead the league in the playoffs in points without Cole, but Staal does tend to play better with Cole in the regular season. And yes, FA can cost an arm and a leg, but trading top forwards on an offense first team for a top defenseman doesn't seem to make as much sense as spending the money and getting a top defenseman and keeping a really solid and strong offensive core together. There are a lot of good defensemen FAs out there that can be grabbed. It will cost more money, but it won't cost our offense.

Brind'Amour, Williams, Whitney, Staal, Cole, Cullen, Walker, Samsonov and Eaves.

To be signed: Ruutu

All these guys I just listed are Top 9 guys. Count we have 10. If there's away to play 10 guys in 9 spots, please share and make sure you let JR know so he knows he can do this and not have to trade a guy away.

As others have said we have too many top forwards so someone has to go. Its not realistic to keep all 10 guys. And its unlikely that we are getting a top defenseman to this team via free agency. We just don't have the money to spend. Let's take Campbell as an example, he's looking to be making $6-7M on the open market. No way JR throws that at a player. The 'good' defense crop is low this year, but too many teams need top defenseman. I just don't have faith that we will win the bidding war and frankly neither does JR as he's already expressed his concern with getting a defenseman via free agency:

"I would suspect we'll add one defenseman through a trade, and if we have to add two, then maybe one through free agency," Rutherford said. "But that free agency is going to be tough this year with so many teams looking for them [defensemen], so I don't know what direction it's going to go. ...

"We need a defenseman that can play in our top four and play a lot. In Bret's case and Glen's case, they played in key roles. We can't just go after a depth defenseman and think we're going to be able to compete. We're going to have to go after a good defenseman."

Its going to suck big time loosing one of our top forwards, but its reality, its going to happen. We just have to hope that we don't get hosed and its a fair deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You missed Conboy, who is a RFA and I hope re-signed. He's big and just as good at fighting as brookbank was for us, and he plays everywhere and is better than brookbank.

Yeah, he's considered a D still though and I was only listing forwards. There's Gleason, Seids, and Mormina yet to be re-signed on D, too. One of Brookbank or Conboy might be back as enforcers, or we could see someone new.

That's another thing, too, is that we might see some of our minor leaguers pulled up to fill these slots. Could we see Sutter, Nolan, or some of those with size on the 4th line? Does Borer get called up to play on D? It's going to be very interesting to see where JR goes with all of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There's Gleason, Seids, and Mormina yet to be re-signed on D, too. One of Brookbank or Conboy might be back as enforcers, or we could see someone new.

I have liked Conboy for a while. Granted I have only seen him a limited number of times. But I have liked what I saw in the preseason for the three years. I think he is coming into his own and has potential.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nobody is going to give us the help we need for a Ray Whitney. You'll get a solid 2nd-line dman for him, but thats not what we need. His stock just isn't good enough.

What we need is a great 1st line dman, and that is something we can get (and if not get, we can get extremely close to getting) with Cole. His stock is just higher and other teams know it. As has already been brought up, teams know what we have too much of, and thats forwards. They also know we're going to have trouble keeping both Staal and Cole next year. They're not going to trade for one of our lesser pieces when they know they can just sit around and wait a year to get Cole. However, there will be teams out there that will be wanting to trade for Cole to get a leg up on the competition and have the chance to sign him long term long before anyone else can talk to him.

At this point, knowing what the needs are and knowing what our surplus is, I don't see anyone talking to us unless Cole is involved. As for all these other deals that keep getting brought up, like thinking if we package Whitney with Wallin or Kaberle and expecting someone else to give us a Pitkanen for them, get real. If you're the other GM and you make that deal, you're off your rocker. These guys aren't stupid, deals like that won't happen.

Respectfully, we're not going to get a 1st line dman for Cole alone for the exact reasons you have previously stated. Other GM's know of his injury history, know of his impending UFA status, know of his slow decline, and know of his allegedly "difficult" status during negotiations. To get the stud dman that we all think we need and want, you'll have to pull a more significant deal, one probably involving an asset either in addition to Cole or in lieu of Cole (Williams, for example)....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Respectfully, we're not going to get a 1st line dman for Cole alone for the exact reasons you have previously stated. Other GM's know of his injury history, know of his impending UFA status, know of his slow decline, and know of his allegedly "difficult" status during negotiations. To get the stud dman that we all think we need and want, you'll have to pull a more significant deal, one probably involving an asset either in addition to Cole or in lieu of Cole (Williams, for example)....

It seems like all our bargaining chip have an asterisk beside them. Cole *neck injury, Williams *knee injury

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It seems like all our bargaining chip have an asterisk beside them. Cole *neck injury, Williams *knee injury

I think that's true. In Williams' case the pros probably outweigh the cons but if I were a GM interested in him, he'd have to pass a pretty rigorous physical. On the plus side he's 25 and has a great contract....but please don't misunderstand, I love both of these guys (Whitney, Sammy, and especially Ruttu as well). I'm just trying to be realistic from a value perspective. Our best shot at a 1 for 1 trade to get the stud d-man we want is probably more likely Williams than Cole. Perhaps we might even get somethng back with that deal.

Also, I think if we lowered our sights just a tiny bit and were willing to take one of JR's famous risks, then Cole gets us a "project w/upside" type of d-man (somebody perhaps in the mold of Barker who needs a different system and/or change of scenery) and perhaps a little bit more (pick/prospect/3rd liner) depending on whether there's a reasonable extension signed or to be had. Then again, maybe that's the TYPE of d-man we shoot for as a FA signing....

Otherwise, I think the deal ends up being a little bit more dramatic. Then you could see a couple of forwards (and perhaps a Kaberle or Seidenberg) and a pick/prospect swapped for defense a good prospect and some sort of pick combo....just some random musings.

Finally, while I think in the back of people's minds Ruutu is perceived as a Cole replacement, I think that's selling Tuomo a little short. At his best he's a much more accomplished puck handler, a little bit slicker skater (albeit perhaps a half a step slower), and a better shooter than Cole. So while we may currently have him slotted as a 3rd liner, he's got the skills of a 2nd liner or even a lower end 1st liner. A look at the World's confirms that IMHO....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think that's true. In Williams' case the pros probably outweigh the cons but if I were a GM interested in him, he'd have to pass a pretty rigorous physical. On the plus side he's 25 and has a great contract....but please don't misunderstand, I love both of these guys (Whitney, Sammy, and especially Ruttu as well). I'm just trying to be realistic from a value perspective. Our best shot at a 1 for 1 trade to get the stud d-man we want is probably more likely Williams than Cole. Perhaps we might even get somethng back with that deal.

Also, I think if we lowered our sights just a tiny bit and were willing to take one of JR's famous risks, then Cole gets us a "project w/upside" type of d-man (somebody perhaps in the mold of Barker who needs a different system and/or change of scenery) and perhaps a little bit more (pick/prospect/3rd liner) depending on whether there's a reasonable extension signed or to be had. Then again, maybe that's the TYPE of d-man we shoot for as a FA signing....

Otherwise, I think the deal ends up being a little bit more dramatic. Then you could see a couple of forwards (and perhaps a Kaberle or Seidenberg) and a pick/prospect swapped for defense a good prospect and some sort of pick combo....just some random musings.

Finally, while I think in the back of people's minds Ruutu is perceived as a Cole replacement, I think that's selling Tuomo a little short. At his best he's a much more accomplished puck handler, a little bit slicker skater (albeit perhaps a half a step slower), and a better shooter than Cole. So while we may currently have him slotted as a 3rd liner, he's got the skills of a 2nd liner or even a lower end 1st liner. A look at the World's confirms that IMHO....

I agree with this post, especially the last 2 paragraphs. If/when Cole is traded, it'll be a package deal that includes a draft pick and/or another player. I could very easily see him dealt with a 2nd round pick and the Canes getting something huge in return.

As for Ruutu, I agree that he's probably in the right area to reach the potential he was originally touted to have. He's a good puckhandler, he's got enough grit and toughness to fuel the entire team, and he's got a good shooter's touch. He'll be a perfect fit in the top 2 lines in the future. Oh, not to mention in his first game he literally turned Frankenstein for this team and played with a face full of stitches for the rest of the season. Get him signed, he deserves a 3-4 year contract. Plus, I like chanting 'Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu' after he scores. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cole- Neck Problems

Williams- ACL & MCL tear twice in same knee

Whitney-Ankle

Ruutu-Streaky, Costly, bad rep.

Samsonov-flat out sucked for two years until he came to Carolina

Walker-NTC

Eaves-Shoulder injury prone.

All of our assets have "problems".

Why wouldnt Walker, Whitney and Kaberle to Vancouver or Nashville get us Suter or Beiska?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cole- Neck Problems

Williams- ACL & MCL tear twice in same knee

Whitney-Ankle

Ruutu-Streaky, Costly, bad rep.

Samsonov-flat out sucked for two years until he came to Carolina

Walker-NTC

Eaves-Shoulder injury prone.

All of our assets have "problems".

Why wouldnt Walker, Whitney and Kaberle to Vancouver or Nashville get us Suter or Beiska?

Don't see the problem there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He is old and has a NTC. Not saying he isnt good...

facepalm2ic7copyrl2.jpg

If he's got a NTC, why do you think he could be traded to Vancouver? He just re-signed a contract with Carolina, with a NTC attached to it. Now, normally when a player asks for a NTC, it means they've found a team they enjoy playing on, and want to stick around for a while. And as you said, Walker's getting up there in age. That's likely another reason he grabbed the NTC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
facepalm2ic7copyrl2.jpg

If he's got a NTC, why do you think he could be traded to Vancouver? He just re-signed a contract with Carolina, with a NTC attached to it. Now, normally when a player asks for a NTC, it means they've found a team they enjoy playing on, and want to stick around for a while. And as you said, Walker's getting up there in age. That's likely another reason he grabbed the NTC.

There is a concerted effort to suggest trading away the veteran players who make a real difference to this team. (Whitney,Walker notably).

Makes no sense to me but that is just me.

I can see Cole for many other reasons and personnally think he is less an integral part of the team than these 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cole- Neck Problems

Williams- ACL & MCL tear twice in same knee

Whitney-Ankle

Ruutu-Streaky, Costly, bad rep.

Samsonov-flat out sucked for two years until he came to Carolina

Walker-NTC

Eaves-Shoulder injury prone.

All of our assets have "problems".

Why wouldnt Walker, Whitney and Kaberle to Vancouver or Nashville get us Suter or Beiska?

Do you not understand simple math? Walker makes 2.5mil, Whitney 3.5mil, Kaberle 2.2mil. All are signed at least through this yr and next. Bieksa makes 3.75 mil for 2 or 3 more yrs. Why would ANY team take on over 8mil in salary for the next two yrs while giving up a young top4 defenseman? Not to mention one of your proposed players has a NTC. This is a business;GM's don't use NHL08 like it's evident you do...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...