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Erik Cole

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You also have the fact that Vanek had just posted 84 points in the season before he signed that contract with Buffalo, whereas Cole posted 51 points this past season. I still say that Cole, in a contract year, could be a very valuable contributor to this team. I would also say that there isn't a team in the NHL that would pay Cole above $5 million a season. Cole's value is probably equal to that of someone like Chris Kunitz in Anaheim or Brenden Morrow in Dallas, and Kunitz just signed an extension that doesn't even pay him $4 million until the '11-'12 season.

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I would also say that there isn't a team in the NHL that would pay Cole above $5 million a season. Cole's value is probably equal to that of someone like Chris Kunitz in Anaheim or Brenden Morrow in Dallas, and Kunitz just signed an extension that doesn't even pay him $4 million until the '11-'12 season.

The question is, will J.R. want to pay him $5 mil a year for 3 or 4 years? Staall is due a big contract and the defense has to be addressed. With the lower self imposed cap, can J.R. afford to keep him when you consider that our numbers strength is at the forward possition. As I have said before, I really like Cole, but you can't discount what has been said about his previous negotiations. There are teams out there spending up to the cap that J.R. knows he will have to compete against and will he be willing to basically take one year and risk him walking away. What is unknown is if there is another GM out there that covets Cole and thinks he can make a trade and sign an extension. Others have speculated that we would be better off trading Walker or Whitney, but their contracts are lower amounts and the team will not save as much which could be used to shore up the defense.

I really think a big part of this equation that really hasn't been debated a lot is what contribution does the team expect to gett out of Sutter this year. He can't play in Albany so it's either us or back to juniors. I don't think he was signed to go back to juniors. If he is up with the big team this year, there is another forward position filled.

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Cole's value has proven to be a very interesting point of speculation on this board. Some believing that no GM would be willing to take him, that he is essentially washed up since the neck injury. Some beleiving he will command All Star money on his next contract. That's part of what makes a Cole trade such an interesting proposition. What is he really worth? How much can he really bring back on the real trade market? No one knows. Well, JR probably has a pretty good idea, since he probably tried to move Cole last year (rumors and speculation), and most likely couldn't get value. But things change, markets change, and who knows who might be out there looking hard for offense and willing to take a "chance" on Cole?

I do think that JR will keep Cole if he doesn't get a good return. But in an ideal world I think he is ready to trade him. I would not underplay the potential situation after this year when Cole needs to be resigned. If Cole returns to form, I think we will have trouble resigning him and then Staal. We could start to run into a milder form of Tampa Bay tying a huge part of the budget on two or three players. But trading Cole for the right defenseman could at least temper that issue. Opens up the "guys not named Staal" payroll to make future moves.

Big time offensive players (30+goals) are hard to come by. I still think that JR finds the Cole taker out there.

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The Vanek contract was roundly criticized around the league as overpayment. Buffalo felt compelled to do it since they lost 2 of their big 3 and figured that the fans would run them out of town if they lost their 3rd. Not a very good example, IMHO.

Doesn't matter what people think or what the opinion of the masses are, fact is, Vanek signed that deal and set a precedence for others to strive for. Sure, Cole might not be able to reach that $7.14 million that Vanek makes per season, but you better believe his agent will have him accepting nothing less than $6 million, and you better believe that when push comes to shove, someone will pay it.

With the needs we have and with the surpluses we have, there is no way we afford Cole after this season. He's going to command too much money to keep in town, and it would be best if we traded him now and got something in exchange for him rather than wait a season and getting nothing but $4 million in free'd up salary cap money. I mean, I can understand how you like Cole and would like to see him stick around after all he's done for this franchise, but the bottom line is, we will not be able to afford him in the future. Last year, JR told the press that the only untouchable person on this roster is Eric Staal, because he is the face of the franchise. Cole and Staal are both getting towards the end of their contracts, both are going to command a potentially big raise, and we're only going to be able to afford to keep one in town. The writing is on the wall, time to deal with it before it bites us in the rear.

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Doesn't matter what people think or what the opinion of the masses are, fact is, Vanek signed that deal and set a precedence for others to strive for. Sure, Cole might not be able to reach that $7.14 million that Vanek makes per season, but you better believe his agent will have him accepting nothing less than $6 million, and you better believe that when push comes to shove, someone will pay it.

With the needs we have and with the surpluses we have, there is no way we afford Cole after this season. He's going to command too much money to keep in town, and it would be best if we traded him now and got something in exchange for him rather than wait a season and getting nothing but $4 million in free'd up salary cap money. I mean, I can understand how you like Cole and would like to see him stick around after all he's done for this franchise, but the bottom line is, we will not be able to afford him in the future. Last year, JR told the press that the only untouchable person on this roster is Eric Staal, because he is the face of the franchise. Cole and Staal are both getting towards the end of their contracts, both are going to command a potentially big raise, and we're only going to be able to afford to keep one in town. The writing is on the wall, time to deal with it before it bites us in the rear.

Good post, the only way Cole stays is if he signs a multi-year extension for exactly what he is making now and his agent will not let him do that (agents get a percentage and 10% of $7mil is higher than the same percentage of what he is making now). It is just business and simple math, you have to take the emotion out of it.

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Good post, the only way Cole stays is if he signs a multi-year extension for exactly what he is making now and his agent will not let him do that (agents get a percentage and 10% of $7mil is higher than the same percentage of what he is making now). It is just business and simple math, you have to take the emotion out of it.

And for the people that are saying 'lets keep him around because its a contract year and he could put up monster numbers'. Well thats fine and dandy, but the only way that would be acceptable is if we win the Stanley Cup this year.

Otherwise, he has that monster season, but we either don't win enough games during the season to make the playoffs, or we bow out early in the playoffs, and suddenly its all for not. We also wouldn't be able to trade him at the deadline to get what we need, because the only team that would take Cole this upcoming year at the deadline would be someone who is looking to win the Cup this year. No team in their right mind who is chasing the Cup this year will trade a key piece of their defense for a rental player in a situation like that, it just isn't happening. Then you're stuck with a guy who just had a monster season demanding top dollar for his services (and if Cole has that monster breakout year like you're hoping, he would be commanding top dollar) and there is absolutely no way possible we keep him in town unless we dump 2 or 3 other players in order to sign him.

Now, lets change that scenario and say that he plays this entire season, but puts up his average numbers. Well, thats OK, he wasn't as dominant as we were hoping, but he still contributed. Now, he's still expecting a raise this offseason because of past performance and loyalty to this franchise, so its still up in the air whether or not we'll even be able to sign him. Even if he starts asking for about $5 million (which is a 25% raise, not exactly out of the question) its going to be extremely difficult justifying signing him to that kind of deal when we have the players in the system that we do. If we do that, you're basically telling Sutter that his stay in Raleigh is only temporary because we definitely won't be able to afford him when its his time for a raise.

Now, lets say he stays here in Raleigh, but has a miserable season, either his numbers aren't what we expected, or he gets injured again and misses a large percentage of the season, or once again plays most of the season with nagging injuries. Well thats great, now we're stuck with trying to sign a guy who won't be able to demand what he's making now, which will leave him a little disgruntled. Not only that, but then you have to realize we're still going to have the same surplus we have always had at forward with younger players we are trying to bring in, like Sutter, who at this point will probably fill in better at Cole's position than he does. At this point, it might not even be worth keeping him in town because it obviously just isn't working out anymore and he just isn't the player we thought he would be, a la Shane Willis. Then, you think back to a year ago and realize you could have dealt him earlier when his stock was up, but you didn't, and now you're stuck. I don't know what the free agent market is going to look like next year, so I can't speculate on what our options would be, but you can see where I'm going with this.

So to wrap this up, with all those scenarios, the only one where it is beneficial to us right now, is if we keep Cole around and he has that monster season and we win the Cup. Personally, I don't see that happening, and I'm sure most of you don't as well. So with all of this in mind, at this point, the only option I really see that would work out best for us in the future would be to trade Cole away and get the help we need right now than to sit on this and wait to see what happens.

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Now, lets change that scenario and say that he plays this entire season, but puts up his average numbers. Well, thats OK, he wasn't as dominant as we were hoping, but he still contributed. Now, he's still expecting a raise this offseason because of past performance and loyalty to this franchise, so its still up in the air whether or not we'll even be able to sign him. Even if he starts asking for about $5 million (which is a 25% raise, not exactly out of the question) its going to be extremely difficult justifying signing him to that kind of deal when we have the players in the system that we do. If we do that, you're basically telling Sutter that his stay in Raleigh is only temporary because we definitely won't be able to afford him when its his time for a raise.

Which is why it will be nice that Brind'Amour's contract will be off the books right around the same time Sutter will be in line for an extension. Cole and Sutter have very little to do with one another, as Sutter was drafted to be the eventual replacement of Brind'Amour. There isn't anyone in the system that's in line to replace Cole, especially not anyone that will be prepared to contribute in the next year or two. Drayson Bowman isn't a power forward and is more like Whitney than he is anyone else on the roster, either way he is still at the very least two years away from the NHL. The prospects have very little impact on the decision Rutherford will have to make. If you trade Cole now, you'll simply have to over-spend in the future to replace Walker and Whitney in the line-up once they retire. He may need to over-spend before that if Samsonov decides he doesn't want to try anymore and Ruutu tests the free agent market. Cullen's long-term health is still a major question mark and no one knows just how effective Williams will be off of his injury.

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As a 23 year old, Vanek put up 43 goals and 84 points in a season.

29 year old Cole just put up 22.

So the opinion would have to be that the guy who will be just finishing up his prime scoring half as many goals is worth just about the same as the 23 year old who already has a season far superior to anything the older guy has ever done.

We better trade Chad Larose before he demands 4 million a year using this logic.

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Doesn't matter what people think or what the opinion of the masses are, fact is, Vanek signed that deal and set a precedence for others to strive for. Sure, Cole might not be able to reach that $7.14 million that Vanek makes per season, but you better believe his agent will have him accepting nothing less than $6 million, and you better believe that when push comes to shove, someone will pay it.

With the needs we have and with the surpluses we have, there is no way we afford Cole after this season. He's going to command too much money to keep in town, and it would be best if we traded him now and got something in exchange for him rather than wait a season and getting nothing but $4 million in free'd up salary cap money. I mean, I can understand how you like Cole and would like to see him stick around after all he's done for this franchise, but the bottom line is, we will not be able to afford him in the future. Last year, JR told the press that the only untouchable person on this roster is Eric Staal, because he is the face of the franchise. Cole and Staal are both getting towards the end of their contracts, both are going to command a potentially big raise, and we're only going to be able to afford to keep one in town. The writing is on the wall, time to deal with it before it bites us in the rear.

Agree with all of that.

Plus, something else people need to consider when it comes to comparing Cole and Vanek. The reason Vanek is making so much is that Edmonton made the huge offer to him and Buffalo matched it. Not just that Vanek demanded a higher paycheck. The thing is, Vanek was a RFA, so Buffalo had the rights to match any offer in order to keep Vanek. Cole is a UFA. If another team offers him a huge amount there's no rights for the Canes to match it. If another GM throws a ton of money Cole's way not only do the Canes not have the money available to match, but when Cole takes that big contract the Canes are left with nothing in compensation in return. At least Buffalo would have gotten some picks back from that. The point of all of this being that offers from another team drove up Vanek's salary, just like is going to happen with Cole.

Cole is well known to be highly coveted by many GM's around the league. In fact, if anyone remembers the rumors of the trade of Cole to Edmonton last off-season, when the Edmonton GM was asked about it he said something to the effect of "We haven't been talking about a trade, but if Carolina is willing to trade Cole to us then I'm all ears."* If you don't think he'll get any big offers when he hits the free agent market, I just don't know what else to say to you. Cole simply won't be a Cane after this season unless he is willing to take a huge discount to stay here. With the offers he's going to get, that's going to be a very tough sell to keep him.

*Edit: For those who will argue that never happened, here's your proof:

Except that Edmonton general manager Kevin Lowe said he'd never been offered Cole

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Much of this discussion hinges on whether or not the Hurricanes decide to/are able to re-sign Tuomo Ruutu. If Ruutu signs elsewhere, then the Hurricanes will need Cole. But if Ruutu signs a multi-year contract with the Hurricanes for something like $2.5-2.75M, then Erik Cole suddenly becomes expendable. No--not expendable. I shouldn't use that word to describe one of my all-time favorite players and a guy we'll remember long after he's gone. But it becomes more likely that he--or another forward--ends up being traded.

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Doesn't matter what people think or what the opinion of the masses are, fact is, Vanek signed that deal and set a precedence for others to strive for. Sure, Cole might not be able to reach that $7.14 million that Vanek makes per season, but you better believe his agent will have him accepting nothing less than $6 million, and you better believe that when push comes to shove, someone will pay it.

Vanek's situation is totally unique and even the agents know this. Edmonton was desperate and looked bad for letting Nylander slip away and the Sabres absolutely were forced into matching an absurdly over-valued contract. With his injury history and style of play that leads to nagging injuries there is no way a GM will pay $6-7 million/year for Cole, even on the open market.

Cole is a tradeable asset for Carolina but the earlier contentions that he is tough to sign is off-base. In the old system, RFA's had almost no real rights and the Canes squeezed Cole every year, signing him to one-year, under-value deals. He was only making around $1 million/year going into the Cup year. He sought a one-year deal to take him to UFA so he could possible test the market and get fairer value. The Canes didn't want him to hit UFA so they finally paid up, and actually overpaid him, on his current 3-year deal. Cole gave up years of free agency in the process.

I'm not the biggest Cole fan in the world and at his current level he really is more of $3+ million/year player. He is not old but given the injury problems he is a risk and nobody will throw big money his way nor trade a young top flight player for him. People forget that he got his 3-year deal after his neck injury and was a big show of faith in him by management. It wouldn't surprise me if Cole would let JR know he'd stay for less in exchange for an extension as Brindy did a few years back.

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People seem very eager to plug Tuomo into that top line. If you don't like Cole's offensive production, I don't think people are going to be happy with a guy who seems to have an upside of 20 goals, and more limited skills across the board.

Justin Williams I think would have to be the answer to the Staal line if Cole goes.

Willy/Staal/Whitney

Samsonav/Brindy/Ruutu

Walker/Cullen/Eaves

Larose/Double Shift/Brookbank

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Much of this discussion hinges on whether or not the Hurricanes decide to/are able to re-sign Tuomo Ruutu. If Ruutu signs elsewhere, then the Hurricanes will need Cole. But if Ruutu signs a multi-year contract with the Hurricanes for something like $2.5-2.75M, then Erik Cole suddenly becomes expendable. No--not expendable. I shouldn't use that word to describe one of my all-time favorite players and a guy we'll remember long after he's gone. But it becomes more likely that he--or another forward--ends up being traded.

I posted earlier that Ruutu signing depends on whether or not JR can trade a top 6 forward. JR said that his negotiations are harder b/c Ruutu and his agent aren't pricing him where JR is. JR said right now Ruutu falls on the 3rd line, if he can trade a top 6 forward, then Ruutu will move up. I doubt we see a Ruutu signing until JR clears room on the top 6.

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I posted earlier that Ruutu signing depends on whether or not JR can trade a top 6 forward. JR said that his negotiations are harder b/c Ruutu and his agent aren't pricing him where JR is. JR said right now Ruutu falls on the 3rd line, if he can trade a top 6 forward, then Ruutu will move up. I doubt we see a Ruutu signing until JR clears room on the top 6.

And I'm really beginning to think that something is going to happen on draft day. I don't know why but that's what my gut is telling me.

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Ecklund and others have been saying that there is a "blockbuster frenzy" to come on draft day. Big names and lots of picks are going to change area codes. And, Ecklund includes Carolina in that list of teams looking to make a draft day splash.

Now, rumor has it Nashville has almost signed Suter and Weber to expensive contracts. Good for them, but now there is quite a few fine defensemen on their roster up for grabs (Zidlicky, Hamhuis, Klien, Koistenin, Zanon).

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I don't trust Ecklund. Heard nothing but negativety, and when he does have something blockbuster, it's already been leaked out.

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send Kabs and Tripp Tracey to the Falmes for Dion Phaneuf. If that deal doesn't improve our defense I don't know what will...

Um okay... kabs can go anywhere for all I care... I don't hate him, he ain't my fav player, but I wish him all the best ELSEWHERE.

Tripp Tracy... why does everyone always bash HIM? I listen to the chat room during games and hear "Oh his commentary sucks" "Why is he still here?", etc. I enjoy his fun, and quite interesting color commentary ever game.

In any case, Dion Phaneuf... idk, not sure how much he'd really fit in here. Not that the Flames would give him up for your deal, no offense :) ... we'd have to give at least Cole to get him, not Kabs.

In any case, Cole has been kinda suck-ish since his injury, but most players are. Williams was, and no doubt in my mind that Brindy probably will be too. But they move on. Cole excelled this season, towards the end at least. Without his sniper-like attitude after the All-Star break, we probably would've missed the playoff-mark by a long shot.

Main point, ditch Kabs in a trade for another OFD and keep Cole and Tracy for their effort, because hey, at least they try hard!!!! :)

(BTW, have a strong feeling towards a signing for Ruutu ;) Hope it's a strong feeling for him to sign with us!!!!)

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Well the situation is we have 10 top 9 forwards and are in need of at least 2 top 4 defenseman, and JR has stated that he wants to get them via trade, not free agency.

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Main point, ditch Kabs in a trade for another OFD

:lol: @ thinking any GM would ever trade FOR Frantisek Kaberle. The guy is horrid here and other GMs know that. If he can't excel here, he won't excel in most of the other teams in the NHL, and the ones where he would be decent with, there is no way they actually trade anything worthwhile for him.

His contract is our fault and our fault alone. We're going to have to suck it up and deal with that one until it runs out. We're not getting rid of him anytime soon.

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And I'm really beginning to think that something is going to happen on draft day. I don't know why but that's what my gut is telling me.

True, no one seems to mention the possibility that Cole could be traded for a pick(s). Its pretty unlikely but maybe someone would trade Cole for a 1st rounder which could move us up.

Cole could also go around the trade deadline, especially if it looks like we're out of the playoffs. He'd be traded to a team looking to get some playoff experience, though the return would most likely be younger players or picks and not the stay at home D-man (though by the time the season starts hopefully we will already have one.)

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And I'm really beginning to think that something is going to happen on draft day. I don't know why but that's what my gut is telling me.

My gut has been telling me that for the last month. And since I'll be in Orlando Friday, that's just another reason why we make our trade then since I won't be around to see it.

CMsynergy91, your thinking could possibly be right. We have been rumored to be a team that is looking to move up in the draft. I've heard there is 1 or 2 defenseman in this draft that could step right into the NHL. JR may possibly be looking at one of them to be one of our guys and knows he can't get them in the 14th spot. I can't remember the names as it was being discussed on XM, but they are pegged to go in the Top 10.

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My gut has been telling me that for the last month. And since I'll be in Orlando Friday, that's just another reason why we make our trade then since I won't be around to see it.

CMsynergy91, your thinking could possibly be right. We have been rumored to be a team that is looking to move up in the draft. I've heard there is 1 or 2 defenseman in this draft that could step right into the NHL. JR may possibly be looking at one of them to be one of our guys and knows he can't get them in the 14th spot. I can't remember the names as it was being discussed on XM, but they are pegged to go in the Top 10.

I would say a more likely scenario is for us to trade an existing, performing asset and our 1st round pick for a lower 1st round pick, an extra second rounder ( or possibly a 3rd) and that blueliner we've all been seeking. Cole plus trading down in the 1st, might get us a 3rd rounder and a pretty fair d-man...again, I think our trading partners are more likely folks like Nashville or somebody similar. JR has most recently stated that he doesn't like using his 1st rounders for D-men because they take longer to develop. Young, "NHL ready" D-men aren't the stud shut down guys or the slick "puck movers" that we require and our system is still pretty bereft of true NHL ready talent. This is a fairly deep draft so the second round and third rounds are going to yield some gems.

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My gut has been telling me that for the last month. And since I'll be in Orlando Friday, that's just another reason why we make our trade then since I won't be around to see it.

lol just came back from Orlando. rainy season down there :angry:

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