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Caniac5

Siedenberg Signed....

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I was thinking bargain instead of overpayment, defensemen are asking for a lot this offseason and seidenberg was pretty good. I'm happy with the signing.

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Any proof he was looking for 3rd line money? Or proof that he was offered more than 550k? The only news that the public recieved was from Luke, which said he was offered his qualifying offer of 550k.

JR saying in an interview that they want LaRose signed and he is trying to get him signed. In talks with his agent to try and get something done. JR also saying that his camp is looking for more than what JR can offer him for his role on the team. If JR wants LaRose signed, he's offered something else other than that qualifying offer. Sorry but unless Luke has LaRose's agent phone bugged, he isn't going to know what was offered. I'd take JRs word that they are trying to work something out, and not base information on Luke who isn't privy to the negotiations.

He had a hissy fit because he was sent down when he felt he was playing better than those staying (and he was). JR gave the reason that he was being sent down to showcase Hutchinson and Tanabe for a trade. A trade that never came.

Actually a Hutchinson trade did happen, that off season for Cullen ;)

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I was thinking bargain instead of overpayment, defensemen are asking for a lot this offseason and seidenberg was pretty good. I'm happy with the signing.

that's what i was thinking.. bargain with a reasonable raise.

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JR saying in an interview that they want LaRose signed and he is trying to get him signed. In talks with his agent to try and get something done. JR also saying that his camp is looking for more than what JR can offer him for his role on the team. If JR wants LaRose signed, he's offered something else other than that qualifying offer. Sorry but unless Luke has LaRose's agent phone bugged, he isn't going to know what was offered. I'd take JRs word that they are trying to work something out, and not base information on Luke who isn't privy to the negotiations.

Actually a Hutchinson trade did happen, that off season for Cullen ;)

Again, proof? Not saying it didn't happen, I just don't remember that. Was without the Internet for a good portion of the off-season.

And the Cullen trade happened because the Rangers were overloaded at center and couldn't pay Cullen to play there. Hutchinson was not a big piece in the trade, especially considering he spent all last year in the AHL.

And just because some teams REALLY overpay defensemen (Finger and Commie) doesn't mean that overpaying someone by less makes it a better deal.

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Again, proof? Not saying it didn't happen, I just don't remember that. Was without the Internet for a good portion of the off-season.

And the Cullen trade happened because the Rangers were overloaded at center and couldn't pay Cullen to play there. Hutchinson was not a big piece in the trade, especially considering he spent all last year in the AHL.

And just because some teams REALLY overpay defensemen (Finger and Commie) doesn't mean that overpaying someone by less makes it a better deal.

i think what they're talking about is a radio interview done on 99.9 the fan on the day we aquired Joni Pitkanen

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i think what they're talking about is a radio interview done on 99.9 the fan on the day we aquired Joni Pitkanen

Alright, just listened to the interview, and JR said Chad and his agent are looking for an amount "that is probably a fair salary for him".

That makes me believe he's not asking for 3rd line money. If JR feels it's a fair salary for him, and Chad and his agent are asking for it, it means Chad's not asking for 2-3 million.

I'd say Chad's asking for a fair amount, as JR said, but JR's not willing to pay him that amount. Which leaves Chad the only option of going into arbitration, to get an amount they both can agree on.

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This has nothing but an upside to it.Sieds played pretty good Hockey for us last year and this just might make it all that much easier to get Rid of Kabs!!!Finally B)

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Whats really changed to make it easier to move Kabs? We wanted him gone then and woulda moved him for anything....and would still do so. He's still getting 2.2 mil and he still stinks.

Just because 7 D-man are signed doesnt make it any easier to move him in terms of finding an idiot.

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Until this team can get more than 12,000 people to buy season tickets, we will have a budget. You don't like the budget, then buy tickets. Another way to make money is increase ticket prices. Oh wait they increased prices by 5% and people beatched.

In the 10 years that this team has been here, they made money once. The other 9 years, they lost money.

I'm fine with a budget. This team can still compete with a budget. We don't need to sign somebody to a $10M contract in order to win. Not one person makes a winning team, a team makes a winning team.

Kevyn Adams also gave a ton to the team, and he never made $1M. Seriously people are overrating Larose. He is NOT worth $1M. JR is not going to pay a guy logging less than 10 minutes a game $1M. If we weren't decimated with injuries and LaRose stayed on the 4th line, would you still be saying he's worth $1M. Likely not.

My sentiments exactly!

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Again, proof? Not saying it didn't happen, I just don't remember that. Was without the Internet for a good portion of the off-season.

And the Cullen trade happened because the Rangers were overloaded at center and couldn't pay Cullen to play there. Hutchinson was not a big piece in the trade, especially considering he spent all last year in the AHL.

And just because some teams REALLY overpay defensemen (Finger and Commie) doesn't mean that overpaying someone by less makes it a better deal.

JR was on on XM last week. I believe it was Wednesday or Thursday. Anyway I caught it on my way from work. Unfortunetly XM does't archive their interviews, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

And my Hutchinson for Cullen was sarcasm, hence the ;)

EdIT: like someone else said he was also on 99.9, but I missed that one.

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But the REAL beef I have with the Canes right now is this "budget" that JR has, which is $9 mil below the actual cap. When you look at our salaries, we arent paying anyone teams like Chicago or Pittsburgh are, and we're freaking out over being 7 million BELOW the actual cap? You can't win if you don't spend. I'm sorry. I'm sick and tired of hearing baout JR's budget. If we want to contend, we've got to pay the guys we have what they are worth to keep them. LaRose doesn't deserve a multi million contract, but a fair raise that shows his contributions to the team is certainly in order. He played on the first two lines when our "stars" were hurt. He has grit and is pesky in that great way that makes me love him more.

Just my $0.02

It's easy to assume you don't win if you don't spend money but let me throw out these numbers

In 2005-2006 - The Year We Won The Cup - Our Payroll was $ 35M according to USA Today. Salary cap that year was $39M - The Canes were 10% below the Salary cap that year.

This Past Year, our payroll was $49.9M. Salary cap last year was $50M, the Canes were barely below the salary cap and look at how the season turned out. We did not even make the playoffs.

Hard to argue the cold hard stats.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=6' target="_blank">Canes Payroll Link[/post]

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Whats really changed to make it easier to move Kabs? We wanted him gone then and woulda moved him for anything....and would still do so. He's still getting 2.2 mil and he still stinks.

Just because 7 D-man are signed doesnt make it any easier to move him in terms of finding an idiot.

Jeff Finger got a $3.75 million deal, thats what changed. With salary inflation and teams trying to reach the higher cap floor, $2.2 million is no longer such a bad deal for Kaberle.

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they brought everyone here to play.. and i doubt they'll be scared they're gonna hurt his feelings if he doesn't play, he better have a good attitude or they're not gonna let him play.

and BTW we only have 2 right handed D, so i dont think it's gonna matter who uses what hand, it's gonna matter on how well they play and the chemistry.

Exactly. I don't think Babchuk is going to put up a hissy fit if he rides the bench or sits in the press box. After all, he was sent down to play in Albany when he did it before. It isn't minutes played that I think is important to him, but simply being at the NHL level.

Also, everyone seems to assume that Babchuk and Melichar automatically jump up the chain now. Yet they're only making $1 mil a piece? Then Seids gets $1.2 mil? I'm figuring that they see him playing more this year and getting a chance to work his way into the lineup more, since he got more. If they figured he'd be the 7th D, don't you think they would have paid him less than Babchuk or Melichar?

How do we know that the plan isn't to have a lineup like this:

Pitkanen/Gleason

Corvo/Seidenberg

Wallin/Melichar

Babchuk

Two good puck-moving D pairings, then a shut-down pairing, plus Babchuk to fill in when necessary. Or replace Melichar with Babchuk. I think those two will really be fighting it out for playing time in training camp and pre-season. But maybe that's just me.

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Pitkanen/Gleason

Corvo/Seidenberg

Wallin/Melichar

Babchuk

One minor change:

Gleason/Pitkanen

Corvo/Wallin

Seidenberg then one of Melichar/Babchuk

I'm not sold on Seidenberg being a top 4 yet. Wallin, not a top 4 either, but he's more experienced. And if we are going by numbers he makes more than Seidenberg at 1.75M. Which its funny b/c you shouldn't play a guy based on what their paid, but that's what this org seems to do at times.

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Also, everyone seems to assume that Babchuk and Melichar automatically jump up the chain now. Yet they're only making $1 mil a piece?

Because if Babchuk and Melichar weren't promised a spot on the everyday roster by Rutherford, neither had any reason to accept $1 million to return to the NHL.

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Glad to see JR got this done. His resolve is crystal clear, gioing back to the post-season interview about overhauling the D.

Last week he said with the new signings the Canes will have to move some players (out). Whether he goes sooner or later, its clear Kaberle won't be seeing much ice time here. Given the self imposed cap, I won't be surprised if Wallin goes, too.

The overhaul is nearly done, where LaRose may be part of the squad or not. Chad is not in a strong negotiating position and may lose by "winning" his arbitration case.

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Exactly. I don't think Babchuk is going to put up a hissy fit if he rides the bench or sits in the press box. After all, he was sent down to play in Albany when he did it before. It isn't minutes played that I think is important to him, but simply being at the NHL level.

Also, everyone seems to assume that Babchuk and Melichar automatically jump up the chain now. Yet they're only making $1 mil a piece? Then Seids gets $1.2 mil? I'm figuring that they see him playing more this year and getting a chance to work his way into the lineup more, since he got more. If they figured he'd be the 7th D, don't you think they would have paid him less than Babchuk or Melichar?

How do we know that the plan isn't to have a lineup like this:

Pitkanen/Gleason

Corvo/Seidenberg

Wallin/Melichar

Babchuk

Two good puck-moving D pairings, then a shut-down pairing, plus Babchuk to fill in when necessary. Or replace Melichar with Babchuk. I think those two will really be fighting it out for playing time in training camp and pre-season. But maybe that's just me.

i like your thinking

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I'm not sold on Seidenberg being a top 4 yet.

Personally I'd rather see Seidenberg with Corvo. Corvo has said in the past that he prefers to play with another offensive type dman, even though Seidenberg doesn't exactly fit that mold he does so better than Wallin. Also you have to account for the fact that Wallin is older and doesn't have the wheels that Seidenberg has. All of this is of course my opinion and only speculation because Kaberle has not been traded.

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Personally I'd rather see Seidenberg with Corvo. Corvo has said in the past that he prefers to play with another offensive type dman, even though Seidenberg doesn't exactly fit that mold he does so better than Wallin. Also you have to account for the fact that Wallin is older and doesn't have the wheels that Seidenberg has. All of this is of course my opinion and only speculation because Kaberle has not been traded.

Exactly my thoughts as well.

I have a feeling the third pairing will be a shut-down type. I don't see Seidenberg being played there. Corvo plays best when he has an offensive-minded D-man with him. Of the four D left (if Kaberle is gone), only Seidenberg really fits that mold. Wallin also plays best when he's paired with a more defensive-minded D. That sounds like Melichar to me. Or Babchuk at times.

We'll see once the season starts, though.

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IMO Siedenburg at $1.2M will generate a lot more interest from other teams than Kaberle at $2.2M. #4 sitting a lot at the end of last season even after his foot had healed and #5 playing tells me where they are in the relative scheme of things for PL and JR.

Also, along with the "Wallin = NTC" sign I saw in another thread should be a "Hurricanes = business = profit/loss = budget <> salary cap", although that might be a bit harder to follow...

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Whats really changed to make it easier to move Kabs? We wanted him gone then and woulda moved him for anything....and would still do so. He's still getting 2.2 mil and he still stinks.

Just because 7 D-man are signed doesnt make it any easier to move him in terms of finding an idiot.

Well my thoughts are now that we have signed Dennis thats more money we need to make up, plus it looks like we are definetly going younger and more physical ,which really takes Kabs and his style of play farther out of the picture.IMO,,plus its alot of wishful thinking on my part!!! :blink:

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How do we know that the plan isn't to have a lineup like this:

Pitkanen/Gleason

Corvo/Seidenberg

Wallin/Melichar

Babchuk

With what I said above in mind, I would make one small alteration:

Gleason / Pitkanen

Corvo / Seidenberg

Babchuk / Melichar

Although people want to focus on the way Babchuk left, at the time of his demotion to the AHL he led the team in blocked shots. From what I've heard, blocked shots are also one of the strengths of Melichar's play. Those two could develop chemistry and become a solid defensive pair and Babchuk adds just enough offensive ability to make the duo work in Laviolette's system.

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Until this team can get more than 12,000 people to buy season tickets, we will have a budget. You don't like the budget, then buy tickets. Another way to make money is increase ticket prices. Oh wait they increased prices by 5% and people beatched.

I'm a STH, thankyouverymuch.

The NHL as a whole needs to figure out how to make money other than by ticket sales. The best way? A TV deal that isn't a JOKE.

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That's where I'm gonna disagree with you. LaRose isn't worth 1 million. He IS worth more than the 550k they offered him, however.

They offer D-berg a 50% raise for sitting in the box. They offer LaRose a 50k raise for doing much more.

I just don't understand how we can afford this. We were already over the self-imposed cap. We're (apparently) trying to bring Sutter up here. We've still got to buy out Hamilton and Tanabe (and who knows what's going on in that situation).

Doesn't make any sense as to why we'd spend this much on another depth defenseman. And I guess this means Borer's not getting a shot up here anytime soon.

Okay, he was in the press box for 10 games when he wasn't healthy, that's not as much as everyone makes it out to be.

Secondly, you don't know all for the facts. That offer we know of is his qualifying offer. Dennis got offered the same 10% raise that LaRose did. Those are just the qualifying offers. What we don't know is how much has been offered to LaRose that he declined. We have no idea how much they have been talking about, so until we know how much has been offered you can't compare the two like that.

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Okay, he was in the press box for 10 games when he wasn't healthy, that's not as much as everyone makes it out to be.

Secondly, you don't know all for the facts. That offer we know of is his qualifying offer. Dennis got offered the same 10% raise that LaRose did. Those are just the qualifying offers. What we don't know is how much has been offered to LaRose that he declined. We have no idea how much they have been talking about, so until we know how much has been offered you can't compare the two like that.

Agreed. But in that same vein, you can't condemn LaRose for apparently asking for 3rd line money, when there's no proof of it.

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