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CANIAC4LIFE91

blue-line trade in the works

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I like this train of thought here...anyone else like this?

Remember Borer had reconstructive knee surgery in April. That surgery takes 4-6 months recovery. If he takes the full 6 months, he won't be ready for training camp. There was an interview with him back in June and then he wasn't skating yet. He just started weight lifting. I like Borer, but I don't see him on the full time line up this year. They'll likely want him to stay in Albany to strengthen the knee and get his confidence back.

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I could see us going for Neil or Donovan. Foligno would be nice, but I kinda doubt Ottawa will give him to us for Kaberle.

-Nick Foligno ($850,000)

I'd take Chris Neil in a heartbeat...he is the best tough-guy forward in the league, hands down.

That would be sweet.

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Remember Borer had reconstructive knee surgery in April. That surgery takes 4-6 months recovery. If he takes the full 6 months, he won't be ready for training camp. There was an interview with him back in June and then he wasn't skating yet. He just started weight lifting. I like Borer, but I don't see him on the full time line up this year. They'll likely want him to stay in Albany to strengthen the knee and get his confidence back.

You might be right clf, but casey is a super-strong skater who could easily be ready in 4 months. You gotta think this kid is totally geeked to make this team and will do whatever it takes. I would love to see him up here.

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Remember Borer had reconstructive knee surgery in April. That surgery takes 4-6 months recovery. If he takes the full 6 months, he won't be ready for training camp. There was an interview with him back in June and then he wasn't skating yet. He just started weight lifting. I like Borer, but I don't see him on the full time line up this year. They'll likely want him to stay in Albany to strengthen the knee and get his confidence back.

Yes, I think Borer has a legit shot as an early to mid-season call up if any dmen faulter or are injured. I understand the desire for optimism on Frank Kaberle, but unless he was playing significantly injured last year, we can do much better by unloading his salary. His increadibly soft, Ole' defense far outweighed his occasional puck handling prowess. Not good for Cam either. Kaberle needs a change of scenery and we need to move on from the last two years of soft defense.

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I just don't think it'd be that smart to rush him into the lineup this year with his knee injury and with the defense we have now. Pitkanen-Gleason, Corvo-Babchuk, Wallin-Melichar. That's basically what we're looking at if we move Kaberle. We could still bring Seidenberg back, if he accepts JR's offer and have Wallin as the 7th. If Seidenerg signs, I would assume it's a one year deal, then we have 3 defenseman with their contract up next year so we can choose who we want to re-sign and bring Borer up. We would then have a Borer with another year of development under his belt and he would be fully healthy.

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Here's a brief list of Ottawa's wingers that are on contract and their cap hits:

-Dany Heatley ($7.5 million)

-Daniel Alfredsson ($4.414 million)

-Jarkko Ruutu ($1.3 million)

-Chris Neil ($1.1 million)

-Dean McAmmond ($875,000)

-Nick Foligno ($850,000)

-Sean Donovan ($600,000)

I could see us going for Neil or Donovan. Foligno would be nice, but I kinda doubt Ottawa will give him to us for Kaberle.

-Nick Foligno ($850,000)

i'd like foligno, good young guy and would fit well with our group of guys with hockey families.

i don't like the idea of having borer up here yet.. let him have one more year in the AHL.. let him get back into shape and bring him up if we really need to.. Seids is bigger and tougher and we need another shot blocking, physical Dman, Borer will be good next year if we lose Corvo or someone

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I'd rather see Borer have a full season in the AHL back with Carson as his line-mate. Allow them to continue to build on the chemistry the two developed last season and promote them to the NHL roster together next season.

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I'd take Chris Neil in a heartbeat...he is the best tough-guy forward in the league, hands down.

That would be sweet.

yea that'd replace the whole hordichuck thing. we still need one more tough guy...make that 4th line big.

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This from the Ottawa Sun this morning:

"The Senators' search for a puck-moving blueliner isn't going to be easy.

With little left on the unrestricted free-agent market, GM Bryan Murray will probably have to go the trade route.

While Tampa's Dan Boyle and Anaheim's Mathieu Schneider are expensive options, Carolina defenceman Frantisek Kaberle is being dangled by the Hurricanes and is scheduled to earn a reasonable $2.2 million (all terms US) a season for the next two years. Carolina would want a winger in return. There is a history of deals between the Senators and Hurricanes -- although the Joe Corvo and Patrick Eaves trade for Cory Stillman and Mike Commodore at the NHL trade deadline didn't work out very well for Ottawa."

TSN has just reported Boyle going to the Sharks. That puts us one step closer to unloading Frank.

yea BUT the Ottawa Sun mentioned like 10 other trade options for the Sens to go after. Franky is on the long list, not the short list. There are others out there that Ottawa could get...Souray from EDM, Bouwmeester from FLA, Bieksa from VAN, and Boucher from DAL.

ALL of these would be better than Kabs. Just have to hope that Murray likes dealing with the 'Canes and puts blinders on for this one.

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Yes, I think Borer has a legit shot as an early to mid-season call up if any dmen faulter or are injured. I understand the desire for optimism on Frank Kaberle, but unless he was playing significantly injured last year, we can do much better by unloading his salary. His increadibly soft, Ole' defense far outweighed his occasional puck handling prowess. Not good for Cam either. Kaberle needs a change of scenery and we need to move on from the last two years of soft defense.

Where did I say we should keep Kaberle over Borer. Its obvious with the signing of Melicar, Kaberle is likely on his way out. And why is Kaberle on his way out, b/c we are now over budget and will still have 7 defenseman under contract: Gleason, Pitkanen, Babchuk, Corvo, Wallin, Melicar, and Conboy (i know its 2 way this year). Not to mention we still have Seidenberg to sign. My response was to the fact on why Borer shouldn't be here full time, not that I'd rather have Kaberle over him. Having Borer as the 7th-8th defenseman and sitting in the pressbox half the time is not the best thing to do for his development. He's our best defensive prospect that we've got. Why rush him? Keep him in Albany for another year, call him up for injuries and give him a full time roster spot next year when Babchuk, Wallin, and Melicar's contracts all expire.

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Where did I say we should keep Kaberle over Borer. Its obvious with the signing of Melicar, Kaberle is likely on his way out. And why is Kaberle on his way out, b/c we are now over budget and will still have 7 defenseman under contract: Gleason, Pitkanen, Babchuk, Corvo, Wallin, Melicar, and Conboy (i know its 2 way this year). Not to mention we still have Seidenberg to sign. My response was to the fact on why Borer shouldn't be here full time, not that I'd rather have Kaberle over him. Having Borer as the 7th-8th defenseman and sitting in the pressbox half the time is not the best thing to do for his development. He's our best defensive prospect that we've got. Why rush him? Keep him in Albany for another year, call him up for injuries and give him a full time roster spot next year when Babchuk, Wallin, and Melicar's contracts all expire.

I kind of morphed my response. The initial part was responding to you, the part about Kaberle was responding to hctmo787 much earlier in the thread. Should have made that clearer. On Borer I like the idea of having him in the wings if we end up with Wallin/Kaberle as the 5-6 guys and they aren't cutting it. By then hopefully he will have healed and had a little AHL time.

Not in response to your point, but I just strongly feel that we need to part ways with Kaberle if at all possible, for the good of both parties.

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I'd like Neil too....but it's not much of a salary dump if you send Kaberle and his 2.2 million dollar contract to Ottawa for Neil's 1.1 million dollar contract. If JR pulled that trade, and signed Seidenberg for 900k he's right back in the same position.

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Maybe Ottawa will give us Jarkko Ruutu in trade...don't we need another Finn? B)

I'd send them Kaberle and Eaves (or LaRose) for Vermette. We wanted Vermette originally, and he'll cost more as a current RFA.

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It'd be nice if Wallin could go. I'm not a fan of Kaberle, but I did notice he was playing smoother/better with Corvo. And I'm not forgetting how quick Stillman and Kaberle came back from an injury and it didn't help much. I know Wallin has his NTC, but suppose he just takes a seat for a long while, do you think that would change his mind? I know he'd be mad, but if 6 other D are playing better hockey, and he's not getting any ice time, he'll either wait for an injury, or waive his clause to play somewhere else. Think that would be too ... jerkish?

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We should trade Kaberle to the Sens, as has been suggested. What if Wallin was told he wouldnt get ice time here? I think he would waive his NTC after that.

Gleason-Pitkanen

Corvo-Seidenberg

Babchuk-Melichar

Conboy

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Yeah, thats blackmailing him to get him to waive it...

We can ask him to waive it to go to a contender, if he says no, then we just have to respect his decision.

Kaberle can hopefully be dumped for a pick. I would rather not get a player back, if we dump his whole salary, then we can sign Seidenberg, so it's kinda like a trade Kabs for Seids.

Gleason-Pitkanen

Corvo-Babchuk

Melichar-Seidenberg

Wallin as the 7th.

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Thats kind of *edit* way to treat a player who wont waive his NTC.

Exactly. Do we want to be able to be compared with Tampa in how they recently treated Dan Boyle? I don't think so. The Canes have a hard time attracting free agents as it is, even though the Canes are known as a team that treats its players very well. We don't need to be known as a team that treats its players like *edit* and go back on our word.

It's really sad to see the hatred Canes fans have for Wallin because of his NTC. The only reason he signed the contract he signed after the Cup win was because the NTC was included. He was set to move back to Sweden, and JR dangled the contract with the NTC in front of him to get him to stay. All of this started when it became known that he refused to waive it last year in a trade. We don't even know who the trade was to be for, but everybody seems to assume that it was for a stud defensemen. Since that happened everyone suddenly thinks Wallin sucks and points out every little fault he does blaming him for losses while ignoring the crappy play of certain other players who are never allowed to be said having made a mistake. But yet he was supposed to bring in a really great D all by himself? Yeah right! I'm not sure what many of you are thinking.

Look Canes fans. Wallin has the NTC. He got it in a reasonable way. If anyone should be blamed at all it should be JR. If the NTC weren't included Wallin and his family would be back in Sweden right now. So if he refuses to waive it he has every right in the world, because without that he never would have been back here to begin with. He's a good guy and a decent D. Not an all star or flashy, but he quietly does his job and usually without any thanks. After all, we can't have a defense that is made up of all Prongers and Niedermeyers. We need depth defensemen like Wallin. He doesn't deserve all the hatred that is thrown his way.

Just think if you were about to move on with your own plans in life so you could work and live in a place you really wanted to with your family, but then your current boss comes back and gets you to stay for a few more years. You only agree because you liked it where you were and so were fine with living there a few more years. How would you like it if your boss turns around shortly afterward and tells you there's no place for you there anymore, and that you're to be transferred somewhere else not of your choice? That's what has happened with Wallin, but he's got a NTC to prevent being forced to move. And he's the bad guy?

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Exactly. Do we want to be able to be compared with Tampa in how they recently treated Dan Boyle? I don't think so. The Canes have a hard time attracting free agents as it is, even though the Canes are known as a team that treats its players very well. We don't need to be known as a team that treats its players like *edit* and go back on our word.

It's really sad to see the hatred Canes fans have for Wallin because of his NTC. The only reason he signed the contract he signed after the Cup win was because the NTC was included. He was set to move back to Sweden, and JR dangled the contract with the NTC in front of him to get him to stay. All of this started when it became known that he refused to waive it last year in a trade. We don't even know who the trade was to be for, but everybody seems to assume that it was for a stud defensemen. Since that happened everyone suddenly thinks Wallin sucks and points out every little fault he does blaming him for losses while ignoring the crappy play of certain other players who are never allowed to be said having made a mistake. But yet he was supposed to bring in a really great D all by himself? Yeah right! I'm not sure what many of you are thinking.

Look Canes fans. Wallin has the NTC. He got it in a reasonable way. If anyone should be blamed at all it should be JR. If the NTC weren't included Wallin and his family would be back in Sweden right now. So if he refuses to waive it he has every right in the world, because without that he never would have been back here to begin with. He's a good guy and a decent D. Not an all star or flashy, but he quietly does his job and usually without any thanks. After all, we can't have a defense that is made up of all Prongers and Niedermeyers. We need depth defensemen like Wallin. He doesn't deserve all the hatred that is thrown his way.

Just think if you were about to move on with your own plans in life so you could work and live in a place you really wanted to with your family, but then your current boss comes back and gets you to stay for a few more years. You only agree because you liked it where you were and so were fine with living there a few more years. How would you like it if your boss turns around shortly afterward and tells you there's no place for you there anymore, and that you're to be transferred somewhere else not of your choice? That's what has happened with Wallin, but he's got a NTC to prevent being forced to move. And he's the bad guy?

Great post, great points.

Luke thought the deal was to san jose for ehrhoff, so i can definitely understand why he wouldn't want to go all the across the country when he was going to leave it originally.

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It's really sad to see the hatred Canes fans have for Wallin because of his NTC. The only reason he signed the contract he signed after the Cup win was because the NTC was included. He was set to move back to Sweden, and JR dangled the contract with the NTC in front of him to get him to stay. All of this started when it became known that he refused to waive it last year in a trade. We don't even know who the trade was to be for, but everybody seems to assume that it was for a stud defensemen. Since that happened everyone suddenly thinks Wallin sucks and points out every little fault he does blaming him for losses while ignoring the crappy play of certain other players who are never allowed to be said having made a mistake. But yet he was supposed to bring in a really great D all by himself? Yeah right! I'm not sure what many of you are thinking.

Look Canes fans. Wallin has the NTC. He got it in a reasonable way. If anyone should be blamed at all it should be JR. If the NTC weren't included Wallin and his family would be back in Sweden right now. So if he refuses to waive it he has every right in the world, because without that he never would have been back here to begin with. He's a good guy and a decent D. Not an all star or flashy, but he quietly does his job and usually without any thanks. After all, we can't have a defense that is made up of all Prongers and Niedermeyers. We need depth defensemen like Wallin. He doesn't deserve all the hatred that is thrown his way.

Just think if you were about to move on with your own plans in life so you could work and live in a place you really wanted to with your family, but then your current boss comes back and gets you to stay for a few more years. You only agree because you liked it where you were and so were fine with living there a few more years. How would you like it if your boss turns around shortly afterward and tells you there's no place for you there anymore, and that you're to be transferred somewhere else not of your choice? That's what has happened with Wallin, but he's got a NTC to prevent being forced to move. And he's the bad guy?

Couldn't agree with you anymore. If you want to be mad at someone for Wallin's NTC, then be mad at JR. JR is the one who gave Wallin the NTC. Its in Wallin's right to waive it or not. JR gave him that option and he should be able to turn it down without people bashing on him. Its the same with Kubina in Toronto. Leaf fans are irrate that Kubina won't waive it, well its his right not to.

And I don't think its right what happend to Boyle now and Weight at the deadline. Management gave them those NTC and its not right to threaten them to waive it. I would be pissed at this organization if they threatened Wallin in order for him to waive it.

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If you're referring to me, I didn't say I don't like Wallin, and don't blame him for not waiving his NTC. I just wanted some feedback/input. Good points.

But, like I said before, if there are 6 other players that are playing better hockey together, what do you do with Wallin? Suppose he doesn't click with anyone? Melichar was signed for the "vet" prescence, which makes me feel like he's going to be the 5/6 guy.

With our lineup, and if Kabs can't be traded, it would have

Gleason/Pitkanen

Corvo/Kaberle

Babchuk/Melichar

Wallin and Seidenburg? If Melichar doesn't work out, then you could add Wallin to the mix again, but suppose those 6 click? Then what?

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It's really sad to see the hatred Canes fans have for Wallin because of his NTC. The only reason he signed the contract he signed after the Cup win was because the NTC was included. He was set to move back to Sweden, and JR dangled the contract with the NTC in front of him to get him to stay. All of this started when it became known that he refused to waive it last year in a trade. We don't even know who the trade was to be for, but everybody seems to assume that it was for a stud defensemen. Since that happened everyone suddenly thinks Wallin sucks and points out every little fault he does blaming him for losses while ignoring the crappy play of certain other players who are never allowed to be said having made a mistake. But yet he was supposed to bring in a really great D all by himself? Yeah right! I'm not sure what many of you are thinking.

Look Canes fans. Wallin has the NTC. He got it in a reasonable way. If anyone should be blamed at all it should be JR. If the NTC weren't included Wallin and his family would be back in Sweden right now. So if he refuses to waive it he has every right in the world, because without that he never would have been back here to begin with. He's a good guy and a decent D. Not an all star or flashy, but he quietly does his job and usually without any thanks. After all, we can't have a defense that is made up of all Prongers and Niedermeyers. We need depth defensemen like Wallin. He doesn't deserve all the hatred that is thrown his way.

Just think if you were about to move on with your own plans in life so you could work and live in a place you really wanted to with your family, but then your current boss comes back and gets you to stay for a few more years. You only agree because you liked it where you were and so were fine with living there a few more years. How would you like it if your boss turns around shortly afterward and tells you there's no place for you there anymore, and that you're to be transferred somewhere else not of your choice? That's what has happened with Wallin, but he's got a NTC to prevent being forced to move. And he's the bad guy?

Excellent post. I had made up my mind that the next Wallin NTC bashing that I saw, I was going to do something similar. I do not fault him at all for excersizing his rights to turn down a trade. I do think that it is very unfortunate that the vague details of the proposed trade last year that Wallin nixed became public knowledge.

A NTC is just another thing to bargain for in a contract. It gives a player some controll of where he and his family are going to live. If I were a player, it may be the thing to get me to sign with one team other than another. I also don't fault J.R. for offering it. If we are going to pinch pennies and not spend up to the cap, a NTC is a used in lieu of money to entice a player to sign.

All of the heartache on our defense lately has been laid on the "bad contracts" J.R. gave to Wallin and Kaberle and we can't get out of them. Well, at least they aren't $4M or $5M a year contracts like a lot of teams are saddled with. Just think of the long term contracts defensemen were just signed to and how those teams or fans may feel. Would you really rather have Wallin or Kaberle now with their contracts or maybe Commodore with what he just signed for?

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