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Bieska - much like Corvo except worse - we DO NOT need another out of position, soft in his own back end, offensive defenseman (we already have Kaberle for that dishonor) - what we DO need is positionally sound, beast in their defensive end, shot blocking, DEFENSIVE defensemen

(oh, and those 14 or so goals you saw in the video account for every single goal he's scored in the past 2 seasons)

not to mention, he's only fought 4 times this year and every single one he picked out a non-fighter and beat him - wonder how he'd hold up to Brashear, Jared Boll, or either one of the Brookbank bro's

I have a problem with a guy who gets 42 points but is only a +1(last year - without doubt his best year), and has 12 points this year but is a

-11 (that means opponents scored 23 even strength goals against him) - that signals to me "lack of defensive zone responsibility" which is one of the main points JR mentioned that needed correction!

Be careful - Kahz would have a back end full of Kaberle's and a goalie with a 7.0 GAA - but hey, we'd score 400+ goals each season! LOL

I'm sorry but that's the worst scouting report I've ever heard on Bieksa. Out of position, soft in his own end? Have you ever seen him play? He is an aggressive, responsible defenseman who loves to throw the big hit. He can log big minutes. First and foremost that's what makes him a very good defenseman. His cannon of a shot just adds to the package. Really, I'm quite surprised by some of the stuff you said about him and it leads me to believe all you've seen of him are a few highlight videos.

Thanks for the feedback, this is exactly what I was looking for. Based on your numbers and analysis...He is a no go and his videos are misleading.

His videos aren't misleading, he is a very good defenseman and the canes could definetely use him. With Vancouver in desperate need of help up front it's a trade I've been interested in for months now. Cole for Bieksa would be a great deal for both sides.

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I'm sorry but that's the worst scouting report I've ever heard on Bieksa. Out of position, soft in his own end? Have you ever seen him play? He is an aggressive, responsible defenseman who loves to throw the big hit. He can log big minutes. First and foremost that's what makes him a very good defenseman. His cannon of a shot just adds to the package. Really, I'm quite surprised by some of the stuff you said about him and it leads me to believe all you've seen of him are a few highlight videos.

His videos aren't misleading, he is a very good defenseman and the canes could definetely use him. With Vancouver in desperate need of help up front it's a trade I've been interested in for months now. Cole for Bieksa would be a great deal for both sides.

It is misleading to put all those goals in one video when they account for every single goal he's scored in two complete seasons - the uninitiated might belive it's a highlight reel - not a scoring summary of 2 seasons!

I'm sorry, 12 points but -11 is not a "very good defenseman", 42 points and only +1 is not a "very good defenseman" - granted, look at the team he's on, but the stats don't indicate "defensive responsibility"

stats speak for themselves on this one - better (in the real world) to have a defenseman that has 6-7 points and is a plus 6 or 7 than a "cannon of a shot" who scores 60 points but is only plus +1 - or worse, in the minus (which would be great in fantasy hockey)

grant you this, he'd be a nice replacement for Kaberle - at least he does hit, but we gotta add defensive responsibility first - then worry about scoring from the blue line... JR said so himself... and I trust JR... if we can get him for Whitney and Kaberle as a package the fire away, but not Cole - maybe not even Whitney, but I threw him in there as a way to increase size in general of the fwd lines - and Whitney's one of the smaller guys, but still I'd hate to see the wizard go almost as much as Cole

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It is misleading to put all those goals in one video when they account for every single goal he's scored in two complete seasons - the uninitiated might belive it's a highlight reel - not a scoring summary of 2 seasons!

I'm sorry, 12 points but -11 is not a "very good defenseman", 42 points and only +1 is not a "very good defenseman" - granted, look at the team he's on, but the stats don't indicate "defensive responsibility"

stats speak for themselves on this one - better (in the real world) to have a defenseman that has 6-7 points and is a plus 6 or 7 than a "cannon of a shot" who scores 60 points but is only plus +1 - or worse, in the minus (which would be great in fantasy hockey)

grant you this, he'd be a nice replacement for Kaberle - at least he does hit, but we gotta add defensive responsibility first - then worry about scoring from the blue line... JR said so himself... and I trust JR... if we can get him for Whitney and Kaberle as a package the fire away, but not Cole - maybe not even Whitney, but I threw him in there as a way to increase size in general of the fwd lines - and Whitney's one of the smaller guys, but still I'd hate to see the wizard go almost as much as Cole

The problem is that you're just looking at stats and trying to judge what kind of player he is. I've seen Bieksa play a lot and you couldn't be further from the truth.

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The problem is that you're just looking at stats and trying to judge what kind of player he is. I've seen Bieksa play a lot and you couldn't be further from the truth.

what couldn't be further from the truth?

that:

It is misleading to put all those goals in one video when they account for every single goal he's scored in two complete seasons - the uninitiated might belive it's a highlight reel - not a scoring summary of 2 seasons!

or

better (in the real world) to have a defenseman that has 6-7 points and is a plus 6 or 7 than a "cannon of a shot" who scores 60 points but is only plus +1 - or worse, in the minus (which would be great in fantasy hockey)

because those are the only statements of fact in the entire post... the rest is opinion (and yes, I will freely admit that my opinion is partially based on stats, but I have seen few Canucks games, and he didn't strike me as anything special) - don't get me wrong I'm not saying the guy is another Kaberle! I just don't think he's worth the likes of Cole - maybe Bayda or Letowski with Kaberle for him and a decent AHL-er

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Goals scored on the powerplay do not count towards +/-. 19 of Bieksa's 42 points came on the powerplay. Bieksa was also on Vancouver's shutdown pairing with Mitchell, meaning he was playing against the other team's first line every night. That hurts your +/-.

stats speak for themselves on this one - better (in the real world) to have a defenseman that has 6-7 points and is a plus 6 or 7 than a "cannon of a shot" who scores 60 points but is only plus +1 - or worse, in the minus (which would be great in fantasy hockey)
Here's two defensemen from the same team. Who would you rather have?

Andrei Markov - 58PTS, +1

Francis Bouillon - 8PTS, +9

The correct answer is Markov and it's not even close. Markov had a worse +/- because he's playing against the other team's top line while Bouillon is playing against Trevor Letowski. Over half (32) of Markov's points came on the powerplay, so he's not being rewarded with a + for those.

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I'm sorry, 12 points but -11 is not a "very good defenseman", 42 points and only +1 is not a "very good defenseman" - granted, look at the team he's on,

Didn't he only play like 20 or 30 games this season 'cause of a slashed achilles tendon? He was rushed back in because the Canucks were falling in the standings, right? And being rushed back from an injury hurts your stats because you're not playing at 100%, correct?

In the year he was fully healthy, he managed to put up 42 points while with the Vancouver Canucks.

Imagine how good he'd be with a team that actually scores more than 2 goals a game.

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I have seen few Canucks games, and he didn't strike me as anything special) - don't get me wrong I'm not saying the guy is another Kaberle! I just don't think he's worth the likes of Cole - maybe Bayda or Letowski with Kaberle for him and a decent AHL-er

As I suspected you've seen little of him. Bieksa is a very good defenseman, he can do it all. Add in that he's signed for 3 more years at a very reasonable price and his value becomes even higher. Free agent defensemen are costing teams a fortune these days, Cole for Bieksa straight up would be an even trade that addresses both teams needs. Your suggestion that we trade Bayda (career ahl'er, impending ufa) or Letowski (impending ufa) along with Kaberle (bottom pairing defenseman) is comical, none of these guys carry any value. Then you add that they should throw in a decent ahl'er as if the deal needs evening up? Perhaps when you have seen Bieksa play more and realize how good he is you will understand my reaction to some of what you've said. I in no way mean to be offensive with any of this but you really need to see Bieksa play before saying any more because you're quite wrong.

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Didn't he only play like 20 or 30 games this season 'cause of a slashed achilles tendon? He was rushed back in because the Canucks were falling in the standings, right? And being rushed back from an injury hurts your stats because you're not playing at 100%, correct?

In the year he was fully healthy, he managed to put up 42 points while with the Vancouver Canucks.

Imagine how good he'd be with a team that actually scores more than 2 goals a game.

He only played in 34 games and you're right, he was rushed back into the lineup because the canucks desperately needed him. Seems to have recovered from the injury to his achilles tendon and after a summer of rehab and training he should be back in tip top shape.

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Goals scored on the powerplay do not count towards +/-. 19 of Bieksa's 42 points came on the powerplay. Bieksa was also on Vancouver's shutdown pairing with Mitchell, meaning he was playing against the other team's first line every night. That hurts your +/-.

Here's two defensemen from the same team. Who would you rather have?

Andrei Markov - 58PTS, +1

Francis Bouillon - 8PTS, +9

The correct answer is Markov and it's not even close. Markov had a worse +/- because he's playing against the other team's top line while Bouillon is playing against Trevor Letowski. Over half (32) of Markov's points came on the powerplay, so he's not being rewarded with a + for those.

point taken - but I was referring to your "shutdown guy" not necessarily the PP point - shutdown guy's aren't always the PP point like Markov, as a matter of fact they usually aren't, so which role do you envision were we to get Bieksa? we have Corvo for PP duty, would you have Bieksa replace Kaberle (which I'd do in a skinny minute, but not at the cost of Cole)

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The canes need to add more fire power on defense. They have great offense and could prob trade one offensive for a good defensive player. Here are a list of d's that are UFA:

Brian Campbell

Ron Hainsey

Wade Redden

John-Michael Liles

Michal Rozival

Brad Stuart

Brooks Orpik

Jason Smith

Mark Streit

Adam Foote

Mike Commodore

Rob Blake

Aaron Ward

The canes could even try to pickup a decent UFA forward such as Hossa and trade him for a good defenceman. It terms of goaltending, Christobal Huet, Jose Theodore and Dan Ellis are also UFA. The should first focus on signing Samsonov and then move on from there. Stacking up the defence should be the priority for next season, aside Samsonov.

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The canes need to add more fire power on defense. They have great offense and could prob trade one offensive for a good defensive player. Here are a list of d's that are UFA:

Brian Campbell

Ron Hainsey

Wade Redden

John-Michael Liles

Michal Rozival

Brad Stuart

Brooks Orpik

Jason Smith

Mark Streit

Adam Foote

Mike Commodore

Rob Blake

Aaron Ward

The canes could even try to pickup a decent UFA forward such as Hossa and trade him for a good defenceman. It terms of goaltending, Christobal Huet, Jose Theodore and Dan Ellis are also UFA. The should first focus on signing Samsonov and then move on from there. Stacking up the defence should be the priority for next season, aside Samsonov.

According to JR we don't need "more (offensive ) firepower" on Defense but more "defensive zone responsibility" who is the best "shutdown guy" on the list? if we can both in one package all the better..

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According to JR we don't need "more (offensive ) firepower" on Defense but more "defensive zone responsibility" who is the best "shutdown guy" on the list? if we can both in one package all the better..

Didn't he also mention that we didn't have money for UFA and would be fixing defense via trade instead of signing a free agent.

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point taken - but I was referring to your "shutdown guy" not necessarily the PP point - shutdown guy's aren't always the PP point like Markov, as a matter of fact they usually aren't, so which role do you envision were we to get Bieksa? we have Corvo for PP duty, would you have Bieksa replace Kaberle (which I'd do in a skinny minute, but not at the cost of Cole)

Show me where I called him a shutdown guy, I didn't. All I said is he's defensively responsible and a hard hitter to counter what you had said about him. He'd easily be on our top pairing. If we were to acquire him I'd see our pairings as:

Corvo - Bieksa

Gleason - Kaberle

Wallin - Seidenberg/Borer

Personally I'd sooner add another offensive defenseman and try to dump Kaberle. John-Michael Liles is another young, smooth skating offenseman with puck handling skills who could really use a chance of scenery. He's a ufa and JR has liked him for a long time. Decent defensively but because of his age he still has a lot of room to improve. Ron Hainsey is another guy JR likes but he's more of a pure offensive type. Because he just had a great year he'll be demanding a higher price whereas Liles could take a discount because he struggled this past year. My ideal defense next year would be:

Corvo - Bieksa

Gleason - Liles

Wesley - Borer

Wallin - Seidenberg

With the raise Gleason is bound to get it may not be feasible to sign Liles unless we move a second forward. I'd like to see Wesley back, I think he's got it in him. He'd be a great mentor to work with Borer as we ease him into full-time duties. Seidenberg is good enough to keep around as your 7th defenseman. As for Wallin, I hate to say it but we're stuck with him because of that damn NTC. As bad as he was this year I don't think anybody is all that interested in him to begin with and he doesn't seem to want to leave; he didn't last summer. Give him spot duty should Borer struggle or play him full-time if Wesley hangs them up.

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Show me where I called him a shutdown guy, I didn't. All I said is he's defensively responsible and a hard hitter to counter what you had said about him. He'd easily be on our top pairing. If we were to acquire him I'd see our pairings as:

Corvo - Bieksa

Gleason - Kaberle

Wallin - Seidenberg/Borer

Personally I'd sooner add another offensive defenseman and try to dump Kaberle. John-Michael Liles is another young, smooth skating offenseman with puck handling skills who could really use a chance of scenery. He's a ufa and JR has liked him for a long time. Decent defensively but because of his age he still has a lot of room to improve. Ron Hainsey is another guy JR likes but he's more of a pure offensive type. Because he just had a great year he'll be demanding a higher price whereas Liles could take a discount because he struggled this past year. My ideal defense next year would be:

Corvo - Bieksa

Gleason - Liles

Wesley - Borer

Wallin - Seidenberg

With the raise Gleason is bound to get it may not be feasible to sign Liles unless we move a second forward. I'd like to see Wesley back, I think he's got it in him. He'd be a great mentor to work with Borer as we ease him into full-time duties. Seidenberg is good enough to keep around as your 7th defenseman. As for Wallin, I hate to say it but we're stuck with him because of that damn NTC. As bad as he was this year I don't think anybody is all that interested in him to begin with and he doesn't seem to want to leave; he didn't last summer. Give him spot duty should Borer struggle or play him full-time if Wesley hangs them up.

Think if we trade for Bieksa we could throw Kaberle in? The Canucks are desperate for offense, with Morrison and Naslund being UFA's, so that'd give us more leverage. Maybe trade Cole, Kaberle, and the rights to LaRose for Bieksa?

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Think if we trade for Bieksa we could throw Kaberle in? The Canucks are desperate for offense, with Morrison and Naslund being UFA's, so that'd give us more leverage. Maybe trade Cole, Kaberle, and the rights to LaRose for Bieksa?

Substitute Larose with Hamilton and show me where to sign. :)

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Didn't he also mention that we didn't have money for UFA and would be fixing defense via trade instead of signing a free agent.

Yes he did. He fixed his offensive-defensman with Corvo. Now he is saying we need a shut down defense guy. Which is 100% correct.

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Substitute Larose with Hamilton and show me where to sign. :)

I put LaRose 'cause I figured he might hold more interest to the Nucks 'cause he's better defensively, still has some offensive potential, and had a strong end to the season.

As an Avs fan, that trade would blow. Seeing Cole and Larose in a Nucks uniform would suck.

As a Canes fan, that trade would rock. Seeing Bieksa in a Canes uniform would be awesome.

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Show me where I called him a shutdown guy, I didn't. All I said is he's defensively responsible and a hard hitter to counter what you had said about him. He'd easily be on our top pairing. If we were to acquire him I'd see our pairings as:

Corvo - Bieksa

Gleason - Kaberle

Wallin - Seidenberg/Borer

Bieksa and Corvo are both RH shots. Though those pairings make sense style-wise, you would more likely see Gleason-Bieksa/Kaberle-Corvo or Gleason-Corvo/Kaberle-Bieksa.

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Our forwards could look like this...

Ruutu-Staal-Cole

Samsonov-Cullen-Williams

Whitney-Brindamour-Walker

Larose-Sutter-Eaves

I know we need an enforcer, but this gives us three ballanced lines and a fourth line thats potentially better than say...Atlanta`s or NYI`s first lines.

I think it wouldnt be so wise to give up on Cole, not just yet. This is his last chance to prove he is what he occasionally shows though.

We need to move atleast two of the three to give us enough cap space to improve the defense :Walker, Wallin, Whitney, and Kaberle.

Whitney makes 3.55 million a year, and we know kabs is a waste of 2.2 mil per...so they would be the best options. I would rather see Walker, Kaberle and Wallin all go...but right now i believe it would be whitney.

We can always trade Kaberle and Wallin for a late round pick.

If one of Walker or Whitney leaves, it give the option of putting Larose/Sutter/Eaves/Letowski into a bigger role as a top 9 guy.

So the best possible scenario is that Kaberle and Wallin are traded and Wesley, Tanabe, and Hedican retire...That being said, our defense could go as follows...

Gleason-Commodore

Corvo-Seidenberg

Streit-Salvador/Borer

None of those guys would make over 3 million per, probably average salary would be around 1.5-2 million....

But, we could try and trade three of Kaberle-Walker-Whitney-Wallin to get Dennis Wideman from Boston...or the rights to Liles.

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Just to clarify this a bit...I really believe Ray Whitney is amazing, and Scott Walker has probably the greatest work ethic in the league...aside from Roddy...but We have alot of good, cheap, young but experienced forwards.

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So the best possible scenario is that Kaberle and Wallin are traded and Wesley, Tanabe, and Hedican retire...That being said, our defense could go as follows...

Gleason-Commodore

Corvo-Seidenberg

Streit-Salvador/Borer

None of those guys would make over 3 million per, probably average salary would be around 1.5-2 million....

But, we could try and trade three of Kaberle-Walker-Whitney-Wallin to get Dennis Wideman from Boston...or the rights to Liles.

Wallin has a ntc and he wouldn't waive it last summer, why would he now?

You're lying to yourself if you think none of those guys is going to make over 3 million. Streit just put up 62 points, he's easily getting 3.5+ I wouldn't want him on my d anyways. He's not that good of a defenseman, most of his points came playing as a forward. That's something most people don't know. He's a powerplay specialist and an average defenseman but he's going to cash in this summer. Gleason will be getting somewhere in the 2.5-3 mil range. Expect him to be locked up to a long term deal, something in the neighbourhood of 5-6 years.

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But, we could try and trade three of Kaberle-Walker-Whitney-Wallin to get Dennis Wideman from Boston...or the rights to Liles.

First of all, welcome to the board :).

Second, no way is Boston letting Wideman go. Id love to have him but thats probably not realistic.

Third, I know this whole thread is one big wish list so if you can wish for Wideman, I can wish for Lucic. ;)

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But, we could try and trade three of Kaberle-Walker-Whitney-Wallin to get Dennis Wideman from Boston...or the rights to Liles.

First of all, welcome to the board :).

Second, no way is Boston letting Wideman go. Id love to have him but thats probably not realistic.

Third, I know this whole thread is one big wish list so if you can wish for Wideman, I can wish for Lucic. ;)

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We need a legitimate Heavyweight... We have Trevor Gillies in Albany. Brookbank on a good night may have hit 4 minutes a game. Gillies is probably in the top 3 of heavyweights in the AHL. Granted he isn't as good of a skater as Brookbank, but when you are only playing him a few minutes he would keep plenty of people in check. And forget that KO by big 24 in Minn. Gillies had him in tight and Boogard got loose for one.

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I'm not liking Gillies as an option. Sure, he can throw down, but he seriously lacks in the skill department. No, an enforcer doesn't have to be a skilled guy but he should at least be able to play. Carolina isn't going to dress a guy and send him out for a minute a game. Lavi just isn't going to go that far. I could see us signing a guy like Darcy Hordichuk. He's a real high energy guy, hits and will fight anyone. He could actually play a regular shift on the fourth line. We could potentially have a fairly skilled fourth line next year with Sutter and Larose, I can't see us putting Gillies out there with them. If you're going to doubleshift a forward just so you can have him play a minute a game...well that's a waste and again, I don't think Lavi will do that. Just my .2 cents.

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