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TheWizard

NHL Expansion/relocation

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I'd say KC or somewhere in Canada will be the next places teams will move to.

Winnipeg would work, as it would keep the Preds in the Western Conference.

Ontario unlikely, as locale would be too close to Ottawa, Montreal and Toronto, unless they were to move them to the Eastern Conference and

move the Panthers to KC for the Western Conference.

Maybe they should just fold some of the less succesful franchises and get the league down to say 28 teams.

(YES, I KNOW THIS WILL SPARK A VERY HEATED DEBATE)

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... Vegas....... no thank you there would be less fan support there than in Nashville

Folks visit Sin City for one of two reasons: gambling and sampling the local practitioners of the world's oldest profession. (PM me if you're unclear on that concept. :P )

Jan/GSBG

what is that?? "clubbing" LOL

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i agree

i think a hockey team in seattle would be a good idea, even tho theres the canucks

but they wouldnt move the `canes to charolette, they are perfect here :D

but why have a team in the city with the highest suicide rate (Seattle) !! what would they be called - Slashers, Overdose, Bridge Jumpers.

not to mention how locals would react every time the team lost.

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Maybe anywhere in Quebec, Regina, Saskatewan? and of course Winnipeg.

With the way Regina is pronounced, it would be too easy for opposing fans to come up with "interesting" taunts and signs. :rolleyes:

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Seattle might be a gamble, but no more of one than Raleigh was. It's big enough (metro population of about 3.26M vs. 2.88M for Vancouver), rich enough, and they already have an arena, even if it needs a little work. It's not as close to Vancouver as a lot of people think (I would know, I landed in Seattle for a cruise that was leaving from Vancouver a few years ago), so they could probably get some Canucks fans to switch allegiances. And let's be honest, if they do well, they're going to put some butts in the seats because winters aren't a whole lot of fun there. Might need the Sonics to clear out first though, since they'd run into all sorts of scheduling issues if they shared their arena with an NBA team.

KC could work... if St. Louis can support a team for as long as they have (ignoring post-lockout attendance), there's no reason to think KC can't. Not to mention they were foaming at the mouth until the Pens made a deal with Pittsburgh.

Indy is an interesting thought. There are almost 2M people in the area, but I'm not sure there's an arena. But they probably love hockey there.

Las Vegas might be able to support a team since they're one of the fastest-growing cities in the country. There would definitely be a home-ice advantage since at least some of the visiting teams' players would be out on The Strip the night before... that is, until the coaches put them on a leash.

You might think it's crazy when I say it, but has anyone thought about Houston? Their population is bigger than Atlanta's and is still soaring. They've had a minor league team since 1994, which doesn't sound impressive until you look at how few minor league teams last that long, especially in a town where they compete with the NBA, NFL, and MLB. Ice conditions might take some work and might necessitate a new arena since the Rockets aren't going anywhere and the ice usually isn't as good in multi-use arenas. Then again, maybe town officials would just as soon spend that money on highways to handle all that growth, but it's still a place that hasn't been given much thought.

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acu wrote "You might think it's crazy when I say it, but has anyone thought about Houston?"

During that short time the Penguins were looking for a new home, ESPN did a poll on best cities for an NHL Team. The top three cities were Huston, Seattle and KC.

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With the talk of the Predators moving, i've heard a lot of talk about other relocations or even possible expansion. I know Canadian fans hate hockey in the Deep South but for the most part it works.

I wouldnt have a problem if Florida relocated. Lets face it, Miami is not a hockey town. Heck it isnt even a sports town period. Obviously Nashville was a bad choice. So where do they go?

Dare they try Winnipeg again? Gary Bettman said Ontario is out of the question.

Another question is would the NHL expand and if so, where?

Speaking as a Canadian I do not hate teams in the deep south per se. I would have to say I dislike proven non hockey markets. Then again there are some cities who seemingly should be hockey towns and can't sell out even play off games, so who the heck knows.

As for where a new team would go...I would like to see Winnipeg. It has a hockey history and I think the 'Peg is ready for a new team. Not sure about Regina...the whole province has less than 1 million people but they are the absolute most rabid and loyal CFL fans.

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Maybe they should just fold some of the less succesful franchises and get the league down to say 28 teams.

(YES, I KNOW THIS WILL SPARK A VERY HEATED DEBATE)

NO it shouldn't spark any debate, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.

Scrap the 2 teams and relocate the talent of those teams across the league. Hell if they scrapped 4 teams the NHL would be healthier then it's been a many years.

Winnipeg is sort of question mark. I know Bettman has stated slight interest, but their new arena (built AFTER the jets left) would need renovations.

Nashville (if sold to Balsillie) will be relocated in Southern Ontario, regardless of what the NHL or Bettman has to say about it.

And Regina is a city that resides in Saskatchewan.

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Seattle would work, especially if the Sonics leave. I'm going to keep praying that the Canes move to Charlotte. The drive to Raleigh isnt bad, but 30 minutes beats 2 hours any day of the week.

Anybody think Milwaukee would work?

Any other Canadian cities worth trying?

Charlotte With a 14K seat capacity, it will never happen. Plus I think Charlotte would be like Nashville. Need to get the Bobcats stable and grow the population another 3M in the Metrolina swath (Triangle, Triad, Charlotte) and get the Tampa Bay Devil Rays here in NC. Year 2015

Seattle Without a new arena, it can not happen.

Milwaukee To many pro sports. Get rid of the Bucks and then maybe

Hartford Build an arena and let's see. I know that Real estate guy is pushing this but time will tell. Hartford is still punched in there between NY and Boston and with NY with 3 teams, it almost ads a 4th.

KC Maybe ..... great arena and could work. Money is a great love drug and KC is spreading it on thick !!! Too much Pro sports as the Royals are lowest/near lowest MLB team there. Corporate $$ only go so far.

Las Vegas Do the deal today if possible. Great idea. Bring on Jerry Bruckhiemer and get a arena built. Can't you see it? Package deal: Plane, hotel and tickets to the game for a 3 days trip. A plane full of Canes fan and every other team in the NHL. Plus all the retirees there with money.

Winnipeg I have studied the Peg business case and it does not make sense. With cost of franchises either through relocation or expansion moving upward, it does not bode well. 15K seat arena (I know Peggers are great hockey fans but will it sell out on a Tuesday night with 2nd most expensive tickets in the NHL ?) They will need 2K extra seats to sell when cap goes up, ops cost go up but no room on Portage Ave or money to enlarge the MTS centre. Tickets now/today would have to on average $70 CND and that is with a Franchise Fee/purchase of $100M-$120M and the business case is RED with that. Everytime Balls-Silly opens his mouth and pocketbook, the Jets dream crashes. If the purchase of the Preds happens, the expansion fee for new teams will jump to $160M and relocate teams will be even more. If it will get the Peggers to shut up, I may buy season tickets and give them away just to shut them up. Good hockey fans but they love to go if the ticket is Free, and not sure the corporate structure is there to provide all the free tickets and buy suites and sponsorship year end and year out. Outside of southern Ontario, the Peg is the last and only chance in Canada. (although many Canadians will tell you Moose Jaw would work over Raleigh). That said, a team in Winnipeg would be good for the league but Mr. Asper better step up if he and the other Manatoba Turks are serious. Mark Chipman has to sign up and if it means making $1M with the AHL Moose or slim possibility to make $$ and great chance to loose boatloads, he will choose the former and no one in the Peg makes a move without him agreeing since he has a non-compete clause on the MTS Centre and the city of Winnipeg.

Quebec City Don't see it. No arena, little corporate base, government town, airport with what....5 gates?? Just don't see it although I would like to see the uniforms back. Plenty of hockey fans. A better Juniors market than NHL. Love the city though !!

Southern Ontario Maybe...if TMLs will allow it but not sure. I am sure they have Bettman's head in a press over this and his current fight is probably "pressed" form the big teachers union that owns the team, arena, TV rights, etc. This is like putting a new NFL team outside the city limits of Dallas. You think Jerry Jones would haave anything to say ????? Another question is will people give us their gernerational love for the leafs. "Grandfather loved the leafs and so do I" More Leaf fans in southern Ontario than hockey fans.

Kitchner/Waterloo Not sure. Plenty of hockey fans but will the corps go that far south in Ontario to buy $150K USD suites every year or more to pay back "Balls SIlly" massive purchase price?

Regina Not sure if there are enough banjo pickers (maybe the CNDs will get that one) there with cash and corporate cash. Can the maintain a corporate revenue stream year after year ? I don't see this. Better off in Sunrise.

Again, I have looked over and studied the finances of Winnipeg and others (including the Canes) for several years now and I am not sure.

My prediction: Balls-silly will back out , some due to the NHL pressure (Can anyone say Toronto Maple Leafs) and some due to arrogance gone crazy. He will surface again, maybe in Sunrise but don't be surprised if his private jet and his $240M (yes, that is the price of the preds, not $220M as reported)

makes a stop at RDU and in Detroit if this deal falls through. Hopefully only breifly to refuel on his way back to Waterloo.

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What is your fascination with Charlotte other than it is closer for YOU than Raleigh?? I seriously doubt this state could support two NHL teams!! Suck it up and buy a Hybrid!!!!

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Southern Ontario Maybe...if TMLs will allow it but not sure. I am sure they have Bettman's head in a press over this and his current fight is probably "pressed" form the big teachers union that owns the team, arena, TV rights, etc. This is like putting a new NFL team outside the city limits of Dallas. You think Jerry Jones would haave anything to say ????? Another question is will people give us their gernerational love for the leafs. "Grandfather loved the leafs and so do I" More Leaf fans in southern Ontario than hockey fans.

* The Leafs don't have a stranglehold over Ontario hockey fans as everyone seems to think. If they did, Ottawa never would have developed a fan base.

* Montreal's AHL farm team plays in Hamilton and they get higher attendance then the Toronto Marlies (The Leaf's farm team, based in Toronto).

* Legally, there is nothing the NHL, BoG, Bettman can do to stop Balsillie from taking the team to Hamilton. And technically the "territorial rights" restrictions imposed by the NHL violates a number of competition laws that would be held up in court.

* The BoG could block the sale, but that's like every owner deflating the market value of their own franchises. Whatever difficulties the BoG put on Leopold's ability to sell his own franchise, each member of the BoG puts on himself as well.

Kitchner/Waterloo Not sure. Plenty of hockey fans but will the corps go that far south in Ontario to buy $150K USD suites every year or more to pay back "Balls SIlly" massive purchase price?

Kitchner/Waterloo is in Southern Ontario as well. It is only rumoured as a possible site of relocation, because Balsillie grew up in K/W and it's outside Buffalo's territory.

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Southern Ontario Maybe...if TMLs will allow it but not sure. I am sure they have Bettman's head in a press over this and his current fight is probably "pressed" form the big teachers union that owns the team, arena, TV rights, etc. This is like putting a new NFL team outside the city limits of Dallas. You think Jerry Jones would haave anything to say ????? Another question is will people give us their gernerational love for the leafs. "Grandfather loved the leafs and so do I" More Leaf fans in southern Ontario than hockey fans.

* The Leafs don't have a stranglehold over Ontario hockey fans as everyone seems to think. If they did, Ottawa never would have developed a fan base.

* Montreal's AHL farm team plays in Hamilton and they get higher attendance then the Toronto Marlies (The Leaf's farm team, based in Toronto).

* Legally, there is nothing the NHL, BoG, Bettman can do to stop Balsillie from taking the team to Hamilton. And technically the "territorial rights" restrictions imposed by the NHL violates a number of competition laws that would be held up in court.

* The BoG could block the sale, but that's like every owner deflating the market value of their own franchises. Whatever difficulties the BoG put on Leopold's ability to sell his own franchise, each member of the BoG puts on himself as well.

Kitchner/Waterloo Not sure. Plenty of hockey fans but will the corps go that far south in Ontario to buy $150K USD suites every year or more to pay back "Balls SIlly" massive purchase price?

Kitchner/Waterloo is in Southern Ontario as well. It is only rumoured as a possible site of relocation, because Balsillie grew up in K/W and it's outside Buffalo's territory.

Very good points and I agree with all your points above except Hamilton attendance (sorry), The Bulldogs were 14th in the AHL in attendance out of 27 teams. And they won the Calder Cup !! The NHL exhibition game they had drew low attendance The Marlies have never received good support and that goes to my arguable point are there are more Leafs fans in Ontario than hockey fans.

I do agree on Ottawa and they took a chunk of the upper top of Ontario.

I also a think a team in Ontario would work and I think that Ballsille will move there without BOG or NHL support and say

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If they move to Southern Ontario then they're going to have to shuffle divisions.

Here's my prediction

NORTHEAST

Southern Ontario

Buffalo

Toronto

Ottawa

Montreal

ATLANTIC

Boston

NY Rangers

NY Islanders

New Jersey

Philadelphia

CENTRAL

Pittsburgh

Detroit

Columbus

St. Louis

Chicago

I think they'll move to Kansas City so there will be no reshuffling.

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Pitts won't move to west coast..

I think the suggestion is that Pittsburgh will move to the Western Conference (Central Division), not to the West Coast.

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Very good points and I agree with all your points above except Hamilton attendance (sorry), The Bulldogs were 14th in the AHL in attendance out of 27 teams. And they won the Calder Cup !! The NHL exhibition game they had drew low attendance The Marlies have never received good support and that goes to my arguable point are there are more Leafs fans in Ontario than hockey fans.

I do agree on Ottawa and they took a chunk of the upper top of Ontario.

I also a think a team in Ontario would work and I think that Ballsille will move there without BOG or NHL support and say

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Pitts won't move to west coast..

I think the suggestion is that Pittsburgh will move to the Western Conference (Central Division), not to the West Coast.

Yeah.

Here's why I said this.

If the Preds move to Southern Ontario they'll be in the Northeast division because they will be close to Toronto and Buffalo. They would invade the Air Canada Center and HSBC arena every time they face the Leafs & Sabres. Ottawa and Montreal also stay in the northeast.

Then the Bruins move to the Atlantic because Boston is on the Atlantic coast and they have a huge rivalry with the New York Rangers.

Finally Pittsburgh moves to the Central because they are near Detroit and Columbus.

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I still think that a 2nd team in Toronto would work. The demand in that area is perpetual. Ottawa was able to flourish in the same province. Yes the new Toronto would have to deal with the most sucessful team money wise but there also entering the best market suitable for hockey.

Yes they have more than one multiple teams in the tri state area of NY-NJ and it has worked out according to plan but this is Toronto, not the jersey turnpike. Toronto is wihtout a doubt the wealthiest city in Canada and has the best oppurtunity for a team not to lose $70 million in what 7 years. The Leafs make +$40 million every year. A second Toronto team could make around at least +$5-10 mil every year. Only problem would be if they could use the ACC or not.

Does the league really wanna but a team in Winnipeg where Nashville has better attendance records? Also Winnipeg's arena is too smal for NHL standards and would never genrate enough ticket revenue sales. Also corparate business is an issue there and I'm pretty sure is one of the reasons they moved the first time. Winnipeg is a lose lose situation financially. Kansas City is a gamble. The Scouts were a disaster as was there NBA team. However that probaly means nothing to Bettman but San Jose, Colorado, and Minnesota wouldnt have teams as well. I just dont think it would work unless the KC team has President Trphy style sucess.

With all that I'm all for a second Toronto team.

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I still think that a 2nd team in Toronto would work. The demand in that area is perpetual. Ottawa was able to flourish in the same province. Yes the new Toronto would have to deal with the most sucessful team money wise but there also entering the best market suitable for hockey.

Yes they have more than one multiple teams in the tri state area of NY-NJ and it has worked out according to plan but this is Toronto, not the jersey turnpike. Toronto is wihtout a doubt the wealthiest city in Canada and has the best oppurtunity for a team not to lose $70 million in what 7 years. The Leafs make +$40 million every year. A second Toronto team could make around at least +$5-10 mil every year. Only problem would be if they could use the ACC or not.

Does the league really wanna but a team in Winnipeg where Nashville has better attendance records? Also Winnipeg's arena is too smal for NHL standards and would never genrate enough ticket revenue sales. Also corparate business is an issue there and I'm pretty sure is one of the reasons they moved the first time. Winnipeg is a lose lose situation financially. Kansas City is a gamble. The Scouts were a disaster as was there NBA team. However that probaly means nothing to Bettman but San Jose, Colorado, and Minnesota wouldnt have teams as well. I just dont think it would work unless the KC team has President Trphy style sucess.

With all that I'm all for a second Toronto team.

They could use the Ricoh Coliseum where the Marlies play.

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