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ice-warrior-ch1

A possible new NHL team

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i really dont like the idea of any sports teams in vegas, first of all you are right the NHL doesnt need another team, second of all there probably wouldnt be a very big fan base there, and third of all do you really want to build a stadium in vegas where it would possibly tempt people more to bet on games, i mean there was just an NBA betting scandal and whats next? build a stadium in vegas doesnt seem to smart unless they make sure they can keep people from betting. i dont think it will be too big a problem in the NHL however

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if we are to believe eklund there are a few more teams up for sale that we don't otherwise know and according to Hoyle the Nashville thing ain't done yet. it is more likely a team will move than to expand. Owners like expansion because the get to split the expansion fees.

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if we are to believe eklund there are a few more teams up for sale that we don't otherwise know and according to Hoyle the Nashville thing ain't done yet. it is more likely a team will move than to expand. Owners like expansion because the get to split the expansion fees.

An expansion draft is not what this league needs. If a team does move to Las Vegas I hope it is an NBA team, or the Panthers.

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What still puzzles me is the collective forgetting of Houston as a potential site by the league's suits. Not only does the city already have a first-class arena with Houston Toyota Arena -- y'know, a nice little perq whenever the pesky nature of funding for a new professional sports facility comes up -- it has the nation's fourth-largest population in the metro area (how does four million-plus sound?). Fans sell out AHL Houston Aeros games routinely, making this sports-rabid community ripe for an NHL franchise that's been moved from a previously unsuccessful locale. Too, a heated inter-state rivalry would develop immediately between Houston's NHL franchise and the Dallas Stars.

In my humblest opinion, it seems pretty sad that such a passionate sports community of more than four million doesn't even have its own NHL club. It's time to change that situation, suits, and the sooner the better.

Jan/GSBG

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What still puzzles me is the collective forgetting of Houston as a potential site by the league's suits. Not only is the city the proud owner of a first-class, multimillion-dollar arena in Houston Toyota Arena -- y'know, a nice little perq whenever the pesky nature of funding for a new professional sports facility comes up -- it has the nation's fourth-largest population in its metro area (how does four million-plus sound?). Fans sell out AHL Houston Aeros games routinely, making this sports-rabid community ripe for an NHL franchise that's been moved from a previously unsuccessful locale. Too, a heated inter-state rivalry would develop immediately between Houston's NHL franchise and the Dallas Stars.

In my humblest opinion, it seems pretty sad that such a passionate sports community of more than four million doesn't even have its own NHL club. It's time to change that situation, suits, and the sooner the better.

Jan/GSBG

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I really doubt that arena gets any use, any time soon.

The way I look at it is George Carlin once said something to the effect of... he likes playing small towns cause the real fans show up, when you play in Vegas you get people who say "Hey lets see that guy tonight" yadda yadda... I can only imagine if you send a sports team out there it'll be more of the same unless your favorite hockey team is in town at the same time you decide to make a trip to Vegas.

I am however very ignorant on how many people actually reside in Vegas, to me it's all tourists. That could be a very false assumption but no one has shown me stats otherwise and I am a lazy guy. At the same time you have to assume the peoplethat work in Vegas probally live there and even then if you work at night who has time for a hockey game?

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I really doubt that arena gets any use, any time soon ... I am however very ignorant on how many people actually reside in Vegas, to me it's all tourists.

Legend: The metro population of Sin City is, according to Wikipedia, 1,777,539. (Keep in mind that Las Vegas' suburbs are where most of the casino's employees reside.) Since the start of the 21st century, demographers have cited LV and its surrounding 'burbs as one of the fastest-growing metro regions in the nation. (More info on LV is available at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_vegas%2C_nv''>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_vegas%2C_nv' target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_vegas%2C_nv[/post].)

Want more proof that Sin City is a poor locale for a pro sports team? Chew on this, fellow Caniacs: The Los Angeles Dodgers -- one of the most storied franchises in major-league baseball (right, medford? ;) ) -- have their triple-A franchise, the 51s, playing in Las Vegas. Basically, any club in triple-A ball ought to put more than 5,000 fans' butts in their stadium's seats, right? Well, 5K is the average nightly attendance at the 51s' home digs ... at their crisp, relatively new facility located not far from LV's city limits. IMHO, that's a lame average, given that triple-A ball is, as sports fans here know well, one step removed from The Big Show.

Anyway, if I put in my two cents on the topic earlier today, this post counts for two cents more. ;)

Jan/GSBG

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Owners like expansion because the get to split the expansion fees.

That's the only reason Bettman is probably flirting with expansion. Given the drastic rise in franchise value, expansion fees will be pretty high, which will keep struggling market owners happy and reluctant to sell, at least for a couple years.

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... Given the drastic rise in franchise value, expansion fees will be pretty high, which will keep struggling market owners happy ...

If that's the case, Hoyle, why in he!! are the owners of the cellar-dwelling Phoenix Coyotes still grinning from ear to ear? *insert puzzled smiley here*

Jan/GSBG

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... Given the drastic rise in franchise value, expansion fees will be pretty high, which will keep struggling market owners happy ...

If that's the case, Hoyle, why in he!! are the owners of the cellar-dwelling Phoenix Coyotes still grinning from ear to ear? *insert puzzled smiley here*

Jan/GSBG

I'm not familiar with Pheonix financial status...care to fill me in with the details?

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I'm not familiar with Pheonix financial status...care to fill me in with the details?

Since I don't want to bore you with totals from the 'Yotes' accountants, Hoyle, I'll merely mention these two cogent factoids about the club:

* Since their move to their sparkly new arena in Glendale, Ariz. -- a suburb roughly 14 miles away from the Phoenix city limits -- the 'Yotes' attendance has been worse than abysmal, with an average of about 7,000 fannies in the arena's seats each night. Mr. GSBG and I watch nearly every Ducks and Kings game on Fox Sports West and Prime Ticket; that's where we see the tiny attendance each night at Jobing.com Arena (yep, that's really the name of the 'Yotes home ice :blink: ). The utter lack of fans in the house never fails to amaze us ... and we had the 10-game mini-plan at what was called The Arrowhead Pond when the Ducks pulled an average of 5K fans each night.

* During the lockout, Phoenix was one of the clubs cited most often by the league's suits as one of the franchises Most Likely to be Axed.

Gosh! I've given my fellow Caniacs six cents on this topic this afternoon! :P

Jan/GSBG

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I'm not familiar with Pheonix financial status...care to fill me in with the details?

Since I don't want to bore you with totals from the 'Yotes' accountants, Hoyle, I'll merely mention these two cogent factoids about the club:

* Since their move to their sparkly new arena in Glendale, Ariz. -- a suburb roughly 14 miles away from the Phoenix city limits -- the 'Yotes' attendance has been worse than abysmal, with an average of about 7,000 fannies in the arena's seats each night. Mr. GSBG and I watch nearly every Ducks and Kings game on Fox Sports West and Prime Ticket; that's where we see the tiny attendance each night at Jobing.com Arena (yep, that's really the name of the 'Yotes home ice :blink: ). The utter lack of fans in the house never fails to amaze us ... and we had the 10-game mini-plan at what was called The Arrowhead Pond when the Ducks pulled an average of 5K fans each night.

* During the lockout, Phoenix was one of the clubs cited most often by the league's suits as one of the franchises Most Likely to be Axed.

Gosh! I've given my fellow Caniacs six cents on this topic this afternoon! :P

Jan/GSBG

You go girl, you know we love you!!!

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I'm not familiar with Pheonix financial status...care to fill me in with the details?

Since I don't want to bore you with totals from the 'Yotes' accountants, Hoyle, I'll merely mention these two cogent factoids about the club:

* Since their move to their sparkly new arena in Glendale, Ariz. -- a suburb roughly 14 miles away from the Phoenix city limits -- the 'Yotes' attendance has been worse than abysmal, with an average of about 7,000 fannies in the arena's seats each night. Mr. GSBG and I watch nearly every Ducks and Kings game on Fox Sports West and Prime Ticket; that's where we see the tiny attendance each night at Jobing.com Arena (yep, that's really the name of the 'Yotes home ice :blink: ). The utter lack of fans in the house never fails to amaze us ... and we had the 10-game mini-plan at what was called The Arrowhead Pond when the Ducks pulled an average of 5K fans each night.

* During the lockout, Phoenix was one of the clubs cited most often by the league's suits as one of the franchises Most Likely to be Axed.

Gosh! I've given my fellow Caniacs six cents on this topic this afternoon! :P

Jan/GSBG

If that's the case....wouldn't Pheonix be thrilled about two more expansion teams. They currently run on a $-6 million operating income. two expansion teams would help eliminate most of that for a couple of years.

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Actually, the Coyotes average attendance per night was 14,988, which is 85.6 percent capacity of their arena. Thats 24th in the NHL. I don't know about individual nights, but no team had an attendance lower than 12,000, with St Louis being the low (at just above that number). http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2007

the Jobing.com arena is actually really nice too. Its one of the newest in the NHL and Tripp Tracy's favorite if my memory serves me correctly. The Coyote attendance is so low because their team does not perform. I expect that the attendance will rise if the team performs better and when the all star game comes around in the near future as promised.

I don't see the yotes getting 'axed' anytime soon. I might just be saying that because I was born in Glendale and lived in Phoenix :) , but I mean the canes were in a somewhat similar situation in the late 90's, and clearly that changed.

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Actually, the Coyotes average attendance per night was 14,988, which is 85.6 percent capacity of their arena. Thats 24th in the NHL. I don't know about individual nights, but no team had an attendance lower than 12,000, with St Louis being the low (at just above that number). http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2007''>http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2007' target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2007[/post]

the Jobing.com arena is actually really nice too. Its one of the newest in the NHL and Tripp Tracy's favorite if my memory serves me correctly. The Coyote attendance is so low because their team does not perform. I expect that the attendance will rise if the team performs better and when the all star game comes around in the near future as promised.

I don't see the yotes getting 'axed' anytime soon. I might just be saying that because I was born in Glendale and lived in Phoenix :) , but I mean the canes were in a somewhat similar situation in the late 90's, and clearly that changed.

gbph: Neither Mr. G nor I have any problem with Jobing.com Arena. In fact, be aware that we admire it for its elegance, and have often commented how lucky 'Yotes fans are to have it.

As for attendance ... well, as is certainly true for SoCal sports teams (save for the Lakers, the USC Trojan football team, and the Angels), the announced attendance is usually considerably different from the actual number of folks who show up in person for the games. Case in point: For years, plenty of Orange County, Calif. high rollers have shelled out big bucks for full season seats at Honda Ponda's lower bowl, and -- for some inexplicable reason -- rarely bothering to show up for the games. (Who knows why?)

As for the prospect of contraction: As I'd mentioned in my thread, bidding adieu to either the Canes or the 'Yotes was in the beady little minds of the NHL's top suits -- a concept repeated constantly by staff reporters of, among other publications, The Hockey News and the Los Angeles Times.

(Be aware that the notion of axing an NHL franchise is totally abhorrent to me, one I'd never wish for. :( I mention it because, as I'd said in my previous paragraph, numerous sportswriters had quoted it from league officials during the lockout.)

Your love of your 'Yotes is obvious and infectious, gbph. Show your dedication and passion as a fan by going to as many games at Jobing.com Arena as you can, and by cheering as loudly as possible! B) (Oops ... I just checked your profile, and noticed that you live in Cary. With that in mind, then, make sure you make pilgrimages as often as possible to see your Desert Dogs hit the ice! ;) )

Cheers,

Jan/GSBG

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Actually, the Coyotes average attendance per night was 14,988, which is 85.6 percent capacity of their arena. Thats 24th in the NHL. I don't know about individual nights, but no team had an attendance lower than 12,000, with St Louis being the low (at just above that number). http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2007

the Jobing.com arena is actually really nice too. Its one of the newest in the NHL and Tripp Tracy's favorite if my memory serves me correctly. The Coyote attendance is so low because their team does not perform. I expect that the attendance will rise if the team performs better and when the all star game comes around in the near future as promised.

I don't see the yotes getting 'axed' anytime soon. I might just be saying that because I was born in Glendale and lived in Phoenix :) , but I mean the canes were in a somewhat similar situation in the late 90's, and clearly that changed.

gbph: Neither Mr. G nor I have any problem with Jobing.com Arena. In fact, be aware that we admire it for its elegance, and have often commented how lucky 'Yotes fans are to have it.

As for attendance ... well, as is certainly true for SoCal sports teams (save for the Lakers, the USC Trojan football team, and the Angels), the announced attendance is usually considerably different from the actual number of folks who show up in person for the games. Case in point: For years, plenty of Orange County, Calif. high rollers have shelled out big bucks for full season seats at Honda Ponda's lower bowl, and -- for some inexplicable reason -- rarely bothering to show up for the games. (Who knows why?)

As for the prospect of contraction: As I'd mentioned in my thread, bidding adieu to either the Canes or the 'Yotes was in the beady little minds of the NHL's top suits -- a concept repeated constantly by staff reporters of, among other publications, The Hockey News and the Los Angeles Times.

(Be aware that the notion of axing an NHL franchise is totally abhorrent to me, one I'd never wish for. :( I mention it because, as I'd said in my previous paragraph, numerous sportswriters had quoted it from league officials during the lockout.)

Your love of your 'Yotes is obvious and infectious, gbph. Show your dedication and passion as a fan by going to as many games at Jobing.com Arena as you can, and by cheering as loudly as possible! B) (Oops ... I just checked your profile, and noticed that you live in Cary. With that in mind, then, make sure you make pilgrimages as often as possible to see your Desert Dogs hit the ice! ;) )

Cheers,

Jan/GSBG

I definitely agree with you GSBG. The announced attendance doesn't say much because it only relies on how many tickets were purchased, not how many people actually attend. I hadn't thought about that.

Anyway, I am first and foremost a Canes fan, as I've lived in NC most of my life, so I really don't have that much of a 'dedication and passion' for the 'yotes, but I guess I prefer them to other WC teams.

Thanks for 2 more cents GSBG :D

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I like how this guy thinks and I agree with everything he says (even if it is a year old)......

leafnation709's posts about:

Gary Bettman

more Gary Bettman posts

Page 1 of 1

NHL U.S. Expansion...Take 2!

Aug 12, 2006 | 12:11AM | report this A number of months ago I wrote a post on the NHL's possible expansion into Canada...again. By expansion of course, I mean the relocation of struggling U.S franchises. What I neglected to mention were a number of U.S cities that also have potential. Some cities that have been mentioned in the news and on this site are Kansas City, Hartford, and Oklahoma City. Also I will be adding Seattle and Houston. As in the last post I will be examining fan support, arena issues, and will add any other thoughts in the form of a reality check. So without further ado...Here we go!

Kansas City: Made the news earlier in the season when the Penguins were first rumoured to be making a move.

Fan Support: The Cheifs have great support, and the fact that anyone shows up at a Royals game is a testament to how loyal the fans are.

Arena: Relatively new NHL calibre arena is available

Reality Check: Kansas City does not even have an AHL team yet(however this may be due to teh fact that the AHL was a regional league up until a few years ago). The Chiefs and the Royals also have a long standing relationship with the community, and a newcomer should not expect that support to be transferred to an NHL franchise.

Hartford: Hey, didn't they have an NHL team once?

Fan Support: The Hartford Whalers received pretty good support considering that they were a pretty mediocre team(and a pretty lousy team in their last couple of years in Hartford).The AHL's Hartford Wolf Pack are keeping there heads above water.

Arena: Hartford has the exact same arena that the Whalers were complaining about when they left. By the way, there is absolutely NO desire on the part of local government to build one either.

Reality Check: No arena, and a fan base that likely dosen't miss them much at all (who could blame them?). Also the fact that Hartford has no other major professional sports franchise isn't a great selling point either.

Oklahoma City:Home of the New Orleans Hornets

Fan Support: Just basing this on the phoenomenel support the NBA's Hornets received from there temporary home is enough to convince me that they are good enough for a pro sports franchise. Amateur hockey in Oklahoma appears to be successful as well.

Arena: Like KC, a relatively new NHL calibre arena is available and has already proved its capable of hosting major professional sports.

Reality Check: There is no major pro franchise based in OK City at this point. In other words, we cannot be sure that the support for the Hornets was more than a novelty. Beyond that, it cannot be assumed that such support would transfer to an NHL team.

Seattle: Why don't they have a team already???

Fan Support: Just ask the Seahawks, Mariners, and Supersonics. Also being in the Pacific Northwest, they are a more natural fit for the NHL.

Arena:Key Arena isn't good enough for the Sonics, but it would be a fine interim facility for an NHL team. Local government may be more open to modifying or replacing it for a franchise that's coming into town.

Reality Check: While Key Arena may be a fine temporary facility for the NHL, something has to be done about it to ensure long term stability in Seattle. Resistance to the Sonics pleas for government assistance for the arena raise concern.

Houston: They need a team so Dallas fans will have someone to hate.

Fan Support: The Rockets, Astros, and Texans aren't complaining. Also a second NHL team in Texas has the potential to become a lengendary rivallry

Arena: The Rockets have an excellent arena that should be also able to accomodate hockey.

Reality Check:Texas isn't exactly a hockey hotbed in the U.S, a second team may just be too many for this state(for now, at least)

I am not going to guess at timelines for any of these potential relocations, I imagine the NHL is still shell shocked from their last attempt at U.S expansion.However, here's my estimates on each cities chances

Kansas City: Pretty good, all the pieces are in place for the NHL to move in and be successful.

Hartford: hahahahaha...Not a chance. Too bad, it was a pretty good hockey town.

Oklahoma City: This will happen a few years after the NBA permanently sets up shop in this city.

Seattle: Dear Gary Bettman, if the Supersonics are dumb enough to leave this city, get an NHL team in there ASAP!!

Houston: This is most likely in the NHL's long term plans, and will be contigent on how well the game regains and expands in popularity (if it ever does).

The good news for most of these cities is that there are still many U.S based teams on the NHL's bubble of sustainability and well they can't all move to Canada.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/leafn...y_Bettman/34185

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Vegas residents may not fill the arena come game night, but the money pumped in to the team through the casinos purchasing comp tickets and luxury boxes would probably net the team a profit.

In other words, it could possibly be the case where there are more fans of the opposing team then Vegas fans for every single game they play?

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I don't think Bettman is stupid enough to deny Hamilton a team, and add on a new one in Vegas. Teams should only be relocating at this point, don't add on new teams.

P.S. Bring the Phoenix coyotes back to Winnipeg, it would solve a lot of problems.

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