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caniac52

Poor Attendance: Weak Team or Weak Economy?

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One thing that hasn't been discussed is cooperate participation, when times are tough and they are looking at the bottom line, luxuries such as box seats (which from the games I have been appear to be nearly empty) may not be all that important. I would be interested to see some of those numbers. Also to add salt to the wounds, prices for everything have gone up from tickets to parking, that's not going to get more butts in the arena in a recession economy. Winning will go a long way to getting people to spend their precious income on hockey instead of basketball, movies, food, ect. People here like winners, and effort, and have a hard time shelling out money when their team doesn't give the effort, unlike some other fans, not to name names.

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People here like winners, and effort, and have a hard time shelling out money when their team doesn't give the effort

It's not limited to just here. I think that's the case with most sporting teams (excluding football where there are so few games) across the country. If you win, people will come.

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It's a combination of both. First of all everything went up - the ticket prices (both the STH and individual tickets), parking, the food and drinks too. Raising the prices may have not seemed like a bad idea back in June when the economy didn't look that terrible, but it's a different story now. The business is down at the stores, hotels, restaurants, why should the sporting events be an exception?

Of course, the organization didn't do itself any favors by not making the playoffs for 2 consecutive seasons after winning the Stanley Cup. The last season was especially tough due to how it ended, needing a win in the last game to secure the playoffs and losing to the team we dominated for years. I am sure a number of people didn't renew their season tickets after last season, and some may have downgraded to a smaller plan. And then on top of that we had a few pretty horrible home games and this 3 game losing streak in the past few weeks.

I do expect to see a bigger crowd Friday night and Sunday afternoon. The team is on a 2 game win streak and it seems to be getting out of the funk, and playing like a team again. We have a chance to see Western Conference teams we don't get to see too often. Friday night game vs PHX is included in 26 and 12 game mini plans, and you usually get a decent crowd on Friday nights anyway. Sunday afternoon vs Nashville is in the 12 game pack and it's also a family night (deals on seats, $1 popcorn, etc..)

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What is the STH base of the Canes? 10,000? The low attendence means many STH are not showing up and the walk-ups are not filling their void.

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Well guilty as charged for Sunday and Tuesday I had four tickets to each in my desk at home ( where I wasn't) so 8 ST seats sold but no one in them. I will remedy that...

I would like feedback on another observation... I believe that there has been a significant amount more giveaways ( "Free" STH Vouchers, 2 for 1, Group packages, $1 Hotdog night, Discount walkups, Police fire teacher military discounts, etc...) and it has still not driven the butts into the seats. Has PK's increased role in marketing been the reason for this or the economy or both. In other words I feel like in the past the Canes have not marketed aggressively like other NHL teams and with the arrival of PK and his business acumen and a declining economy which was the reason the Canes have done more and what else could they do to get people there. Are the "fairweather fans" apathetic until the Canes start winning consistently or have other sports consumed a more limited budget?

FWIW Detroit, Ottawa,Colorado etc has lots of empty seats which has rarely happened before even in bad economies. Too lazy to look it up but for some of you Googleheads have revenue and attendence dropped league wide?

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What is the STH base of the Canes? 10,000? The low attendence means many STH are not showing up and the walk-ups are not filling their void.

If the STH dont show up, no amount of walkups will help because those seats will still be empty... unless some STH sell thier seats on ticket exchange or whereever, those seats will be empty no matter what.

I've been to two games so far, a monday night game against detroit, which had a decent crowd, and a huge detroit group, but plenty of empty seats up in the upper deck, and a wendsday game against washington which had a good crowd in the lower bowl, but entire sections of the upper deck were empty or only had 2 or 3 people in them. I understand its hard for people to make weekday games, expecially those who are travelling from greensboro, charlotte, wilmington etc. But there should be enough fans in raleigh to get the place at least 3/4 full. Its pretty sad when a group of 4 Caps fans are sitting 2 rows behind the glass and you know full well they bought those seats from a STH.

The increases in ticket and parking prices have surely kept me away, I had free tickets to the Detroit game and discounted college tickets to the Washington game.. the next game that I will be planning on going to is Wesley night in Feburary. If I'm still in this area when I finish school and get a job of course I will be able to attend more games. For me it is something I am willing to put my disposable income towards, I just dont have that much right now. Of course I cant blame the economy right now, but it was the economy 3 years ago that got me laid off from my job and had to go back to college. Either way it stinks.

Attendance was at it's highest in 2003 after the cup run (and that didnt last long as the team struggled) and in 2007 after the cup win.. two of the lowest years have been 2004 and 2008 each two years after a deep playoff run. Sadly until we have continued success we wont turn the casual bandwagon fan into a true diehard fan.

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Its most likely a combination of both but the TV numbers could give an indication of whether its the economy or the team. If the TV numbers are up it is the economy (the same is probably true of stagnant TV numbers), and if they are down it is probably the team's performance.

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I would love to see the Habs live, but the schedule makers constantly give them weeknight dates in Raleigh. Kind of tough to get out there on a weeknight from 2 hours away.

As to your question of weak team or weak economy, I would guess it may be a combination. However, hockey puriests like myself would show up to see the franchise with the most history in the league if possible no matter who they are playing. Now if they could just take a Saturday Night home date versus Florida and swap it out with Montreal, I am there.

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I would love to see the Habs live, but the schedule makers constantly give them weeknight dates in Raleigh. Kind of tough to get out there on a weeknight from 2 hours away.

As to your question of weak team or weak economy, I would guess it may be a combination. However, hockey puriests like myself would show up to see the franchise with the most history in the league if possible no matter who they are playing. Now if they could just take a Saturday Night home date versus Florida and swap it out with Montreal, I am there.

See I think the reason why they put the better teams during the weeknights is because they are hoping that more people will be interested in comming during the week. Our weekend attendance (Thursday thru Sunday) is usually pretty good, so they expect people will come, so why not play a *edit* team like Florida on those nights when you're almost guranteed a win at the RBC. During the week days you want your most popular teams to come in and play to try and draw people to the games during those times.

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I think its the economy. Everyone I know is going through tough times, and my work is talkin about forced furlough days..... Gas is coming down, which will make it less painful on me to drive from Wilmington to Raleigh. We're thinking about bringing a group up there Friday or Sunday...make decision today. I'm a walk up fan...not STH.

The post up above is killing out of town fan attendance. A lot of the weekday games we'd love to come to, but work? Its hard for out of town fans to attend weeknight games.

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Well even though bag12 wasn't in his seats for two games, the NHL counts those seats as sold for that night. so even though they were empty they did count towards attendance. There are several factors going on these days and it pretty much affects everyone (even colorado has had attendance issues).

1) PK decided to raise prices at the worst possible time. Had he done that when the economy was doing good most of us would have begrudgingly just paid the extra and pressed on. Times are tougher now and most are carpooling to games or parking off site. i for one got the parking pass to save money. to offset the increase in ticket prices i have drastically reduced what i spend at the concession stands from $60 a game to $9. Use to load up last year at the concession stands, now i make a sandwich at home.

2) The economy has headed south, everyone is tightening their belts.

3) It is increasingly more visible with a small market team, in NYC for every one fan that stops going there are two to take his/her place (also in Toronto). Here if one fan stops going then you have one empty seat. I don't think PK has grasped this concept. if it continues i will just buy fewer seats and move to a cheaper location.

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Seems to me thats it a little of everything, College football is still going on,College Basketball has started plus the Canes so even with alot of sports fans its hard to fill that many seats in all the venues. At least gas has come down somewhat but having the extra money to be able to afford going to a game and buying food and bev is still a very expensive day. The holidays are coming up and everyone has tightened the belt. Spending money on a game just doesn't figure into alot of people's budget theses days. IMO we have a great fan base for all the sports that are here. What other sport is going on in Montreal right now? Yeah,, :blink: ,, exactly what i thought,,,,,,Nothing--- so hence the full Belle Centre'.

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I was not at the Montreal game, although I would have loved to have been there. I am not a STH, but I have been to 10 of the 13 home games so far. I just can't make them all. I really hated to miss that one game, especially since it wasn't televised. I live in Rocky Mount, so I do have an hour drive and on school/work nights, I take a beating from the wife when I keep the kids out late too much.

Another thing that I don't think I've seen discussed is the number of home games in November. Unless you are a STH, it's going to be hard for many to buy tickets and attend that many games in a month. There are 11 home games in Nov. and the next biggest month is 7 home games. That is a big difference. It may help ticket sales in future years if that can be evened out a little better. I'm sure that in October if there had been a few more games that they would have sold more tickets. I know there are scheduling issues, but that is one suggestion.

I would also like to offer my services to use any STH tickets that are going to go unused and just sitting in someones drawer.

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Both.

Also keep in mind that the game Tuesday night was not part of the 26 game plan nor was it in any of the 12 game plans. So all you had were the full season ticket holders and walk ups.

With the way the economy is and the higher gate price, its going to be harder for people to fork over the money. And especially harder when the team hasn't played all that well and was blown out 2 games in a row on home ice.

I know there was a BOGO offer, but what casual fan knew about the BOGO offer. Likely not many, I'd even guess less than 30%. Not every casual fan reads message boards or visits the main page. So I would throw marketing in as another reason for low attendance.

And of course we can't forget about college basketball. I grew up in the North, have lived here for 15 years, but hockey was already in my blood. I never got on to the basketball fever, but I do know people who have lived here their whole lives and they live and die basketball. If they had the choice over watching the tarheels play kentucky or go to a canes game and watch the storied Habs, they are going to choose the tarheels. They don't know the history with the habs but they do know the history with kentucky.

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I don't know if it was the economy or the team, but I exchanged some tickets and went to the game. Lots of empty seats, but the crowd was great! Loud and rowdy. Had a good time seeing the Habs, and of course beating them.

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I do have to say that if I have tickets to a game and I can not go. I'll either find someone to take them off my hands or post on here. If no one wanted to buy them, I'd give them up for free.

Unfortunately there are some that would rather not have their tickets used if they can not get some money for them. If I can not be there I'd rather have a butt in my seat and have that person hopefully spend a few extra bucks to help out my team.

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See I think the reason why they put the better teams during the weeknights is because they are hoping that more people will be interested in comming during the week. Our weekend attendance (Thursday thru Sunday) is usually pretty good, so they expect people will come, so why not play a *edit* team like Florida on those nights when you're almost guranteed a win at the RBC. During the week days you want your most popular teams to come in and play to try and draw people to the games during those times.

You are no doubt 100% correct. All of what you said is right and logical. I just wish they would throw a few bones to the out of town fan that comes to 10-15 games a season with something other than Southeast opponents. I almost crapped myself when they actually had Edmonton on a Saturday.

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I think the economy is a crutch reason Monday-Wednesday attendance has always stunk since the Hurricanes started. That and for whatever reason this fanbase doesnt get generally excited over playing the Habs.

The last whose our rival topic proved that.

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I think the economy is a crutch reason Monday-Wednesday attendance has always stunk since the Hurricanes started. That and for whatever reason this fan base doesn't get generally excited over playing the Habs.

The last whose our rival topic proved that.

the economy exacerbates what we know to be a problem.

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I think the economy is a crutch reason Monday-Wednesday attendance has always stunk since the Hurricanes started. That and for whatever reason this fanbase doesnt get generally excited over playing the Habs.

I have to agree about this. No offense to the Habs fan but the Habs are not a big draw around here. The teams that do draw big are usually because of all the transplants that move here. Many of the corporate and job transfers came from Michigan, Buffalo, Philadelphia, NY and Boston so those teams will obviously draw more when they come into town. We do have a lot of transplanted Canadians here but most I know are from Ontario and are Leaf fans.

Again, no disrespect to the Habs and all their history but to many around here, they're just another Eastern conference team.

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IMO the problem is still the lack of good marketing by the organization. I just find it hard to swallow that the Canes cannot find ways to sell a couple thousand more tix given the demographics in the triangle area.

I was worried more a few months ago with gas prices at 3-4 bucks a gallon. Now gas is cheaper so no longer an excuse.

I think we are also fortunate to live in an area that has not been affected by the economic downturn as much as a lot of other places.

W/O getting too much into politics ;) I also think the economic downturn has been way overplayed by the liberal media for obvious reasons.

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See I think the reason why they put the better teams during the weeknights is because they are hoping that more people will be interested in comming during the week. Our weekend attendance (Thursday thru Sunday) is usually pretty good, so they expect people will come, so why not play a *edit* team like Florida on those nights when you're almost guranteed a win at the RBC. During the week days you want your most popular teams to come in and play to try and draw people to the games during those times.

The funny thing about this, is for some of us this is a benefit. For some of us who live in Raleigh and can only get tickets on rare occasions, I myself target those tuesday night games cause they are easier to get tickets too. Case in point, in 05-06 3 of the games I attended were against the Canadiens, however one was a first round playoff game and I dont remember what day of the week it was, probably like a thursday (game 5) but since it was a playoff game of course it was sold out. That year (05-06) I lived in Greensboro, so I attended mostly weekend games, but I occasionally drove out on a wendsday night to catch a game (Ron Francis night for example).

I usually dont attend games against certain opponents, I generally choose kinda randomly, but I know I've seen the Canadiens several times, the Buffalo Sabres several times, the Lightning several times, the Bruins a couple times. Actually this year I got to see Detroit for the first time and Washington for the first time.

Back in 99-00 I would snag tickets to games against (then) expansion teams like the Pheonix Coyotes or Nashville Preds.

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It was interesting walking around the concourse and hearing individuals in Habs jersies speaking the French langauge.

What could the Canes do in their partner with Harris Teeter in promoting the games.? In the case of the BOGO offer heavily promote the games in the stores.

I do not understan the partnership with Mo's b/c they don't have a stand in the arena.

Have it that people can use a ticket stub for a combo meal at Hardees the day after a Canes' win.

However, DO NOT have dollar beer night. The Detriot Tigers tried this several years ago and the results were not pretty.

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I have to agree about this. No offense to the Habs fan but the Habs are not a big draw around here. The teams that do draw big are usually because of all the transplants that move here. Many of the corporate and job transfers came from Michigan, Buffalo, Philadelphia, NY and Boston so those teams will obviously draw more when they come into town. We do have a lot of transplanted Canadians here but most I know are from Ontario and are Leaf fans.

Again, no disrespect to the Habs and all their history but to many around here, they're just another Eastern conference team.

Which reminds me. A transplanted Ontarioan was at the game wearing a Leafs jersey and cheering on the Canes. He was a very nice guy too. :lol:

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