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WhalefaninCT

Is it time?

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their success will and has come from skating and with the skating will come the physical play accomplished by putting the opponents on their heels. I still go back to the inconsistency making for an average team. Maybe they are not capable of putting forth the consistent effort in order to be elite for whatever reason.

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Consistency starts with phsyicallity.

It's not by accident that 5 games ago we broke out of our scoring slump just minutes after larose went on the ice and hit...attempted to hit everything he saw. 45 seconds later we scored.

It's not coincidence, it's how we beat Buffalo in '06.

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ok.......ok......uncle!!!! uncle!!! I witnessed our team getting bullied by the worst team in the league last night. wanna know whats really scary??? their "enforcer" Belak didnt even play. We can all point fingers to who is to blame for our lack of intensity. pretty much (except a handful ex. Walker, Ruutu) should point the fingers at themselves. I am beyond livid with the fact nothing was done on the high hit to Pits, or the hit to sutter, etc..... ( wait! there's more) this seems to be an ongoing problem with this team. Can you honestly bame other teams for doing what they do to us??? you take the life out of a team when you physically dominate them. WE ARE STR8 UP GETTING BULLIED BY THE ENTIRE LEAGUE!!!!! here is the deal....

Remember the hit Ruutu had against the habs last week??? we need more of that! not just from Ruutu, THE WHOLE TEAM! who cares if you draw a penalty...if you make a hit like that....it sends a message!

i maybe alone on this, but we are in need of a full fledged bench clearing brawl! It doesnt matter who it is! the whole league has had their way with us for over 2 years now! we may get our butts kicked...just something, ANYTHING, to let other teams know if you decided to take a run at one of our players...you think harder about it next time! even if it is a clean hit or not, you have to let them know!

I hate to say this but, this will not get better anytime soon. UNLESS our beloved team decides to roll up their sleaves and do what HAS to be done. One after another our players have dropped off like flies due to liberties that were taken of a more physical nature. They must return the favor! no matter what the cost! Maybe Coach Pete doesnt believe in fighting...but ya know what??? obviously, doing nothing to protect your team aint helping matters any. The teams philosiphy needs to change. If it doesnt...the whole lineup will! including whos behind the bench! LETS GO! :angry:

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The key elements to the team are in the back and down the middle. 1. Goalies 2. Centers 3. Defense.

The goalies have played decent. Better than last year, but not as good as the beginning. Defense has been overall better than last year.

Centers: Ah! Staal had an amazing effort vs. Phoenix, but since his shoulder and other than that game, he has been entirely underwhelming, particularly since he is our #1 center and our superstar. Brind'Amour? Well, he has managed to pot some goals, but he is an amazing -14. Watching him, he is constantly beaten in the one on one "battles" other than face offs. He has not been the Brind'Amour of old. Cullen has shown promise, but was out for a prolonged period, and Sutter has looked good as a 4th liner, but is a rookie, and a 4th liner.

We cannot win if our top 2 centers are not performing and my read is that they are not. What does the coach do about this? Beats me. Doesn't really seem like another coach would change this.

BTW: When Staal and Brind'Amour do show up, the team looks great.

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ok.......ok......uncle!!!! uncle!!! I witnessed our team getting bullied by the worst team in the league last night. wanna know whats really scary??? their "enforcer" Belak didnt even play. We can all point fingers to who is to blame for our lack of intensity. pretty much (except a handful ex. Walker, Ruutu) should point the fingers at themselves. I am beyond livid with the fact nothing was done on the high hit to Pits, or the hit to sutter, etc..... ( wait! there's more) this seems to be an ongoing problem with this team. Can you honestly bame other teams for doing what they do to us??? you take the life out of a team when you physically dominate them. WE ARE STR8 UP GETTING BULLIED BY THE ENTIRE LEAGUE!!!!! here is the deal....

Remember the hit Ruutu had against the habs last week??? we need more of that! not just from Ruutu, THE WHOLE TEAM! who cares if you draw a penalty...if you make a hit like that....it sends a message!

i maybe alone on this, but we are in need of a full fledged bench clearing brawl! It doesnt matter who it is! the whole league has had their way with us for over 2 years now! we may get our butts kicked...just something, ANYTHING, to let other teams know if you decided to take a run at one of our players...you think harder about it next time! even if it is a clean hit or not, you have to let them know!

I hate to say this but, this will not get better anytime soon. UNLESS our beloved team decides to roll up their sleaves and do what HAS to be done. One after another our players have dropped off like flies due to liberties that were taken of a more physical nature. They must return the favor! no matter what the cost! Maybe Coach Pete doesnt believe in fighting...but ya know what??? obviously, doing nothing to protect your team aint helping matters any. The teams philosiphy needs to change. If it doesnt...the whole lineup will! including whos behind the bench! LETS GO! :angry:

These are my exact thoughts, reading this post had me going - yeah, um-hum, yep, right, yeah that too, sure, why not?, hell-yeah!!

I'd go even further and say go and headhunt if you have to. We lose players all the time to injuries, surely a 2-3 game suspension handed out by Colon

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it is time. despite bringing in new players, we are seeing the same performance as last year and the year before. namely, inconsistent play, players that don't play hard(staal!), a team that doesn't show up to play every game, or plays just part of games...or who really knows when they'll decide to play or not??? we're seeing poor defense, bad pinches that lead to key goals. we win 2, lose 3, win 2, lose 2...never any consistency....at this point the one thing we could rely on in the past, our offense, is gone too....we struggle to score (which makes playing solid defense even more of a necessity).........basically the same thing as the past 2 years.....so whats the common denominator??? it's the coaching staff. this team clearly no longer responds to lavi. it pains me to say all this because the cup that lavi coached us to will always be so special....but it's time to make a change......his laid back, have fun, bring your kids to practices, take it easy style isn't working anymore....it DID once, but it no longer is.......we need someone who is more hard-nosed, defensively oriented, to come in a crack the whip...if staal wants to give half effort, then give him half his ice time until he decides to play hard....there are others too.....it just needs to be done...and done now before this season is lost

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it is time. despite bringing in new players, we are seeing the same performance as last year and the year before. namely, inconsistent play, players that don't play hard(staal!), a team that doesn't show up to play every game, or plays just part of games...or who really knows when they'll decide to play or not??? we're seeing poor defense, bad pinches that lead to key goals. we win 2, lose 3, win 2, lose 2...never any consistency....at this point the one thing we could rely on in the past, our offense, is gone too....we struggle to score (which makes playing solid defense even more of a necessity).........basically the same thing as the past 2 years.....so whats the common denominator??? it's the coaching staff. this team clearly no longer responds to lavi. it pains me to say all this because the cup that lavi coached us to will always be so special....but it's time to make a change......his laid back, have fun, bring your kids to practices, take it easy style isn't working anymore....it DID once, but it no longer is.......we need someone who is more hard-nosed, defensively oriented, to come in a crack the whip...if staal wants to give half effort, then give him half his ice time until he decides to play hard....there are others too.....it just needs to be done...and done now before this season is lost

I agree with this completely. Well...almost...the one thing I don't agree with is "if staal wants to give half effort, then give him half his ice time". Isn't this almost a reward??? Its clear Staal doesn't want to play when he is out there...so cutting his time in half is pretty much a reward. I think I'd rather see Laviolette make Staal play the entire game without a break.

Either that, or in addition to that, IMMEDIATELY after a loss at home where we gave no effort...put the team out there on the ice to skate laps or drills or whatever is considered punishment for lack of effort....right in front of the crowd. No stars of the game, no going back to the locker room. Get out there on the ice in front of all these people and do some laps. I know it works for many players in other sports to embarass them. Take a look at BJ Upton this season with the Tampa Rays in MLB. He slacked off a couple times and was pulled in the middle of the game in front of the big crowd...it embarassed him...and he shaped up.

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JustJoe got it right (because he agrees with me, of course :) ). Lavi isn't the problem. Our lineup is still too old, and to that I'll add that our franchise player isn't living up to his billing (let alone his salary). Let me ask all those "replace Lavi"-ites this: Who you gonna get? Who, with an equal or better knowledge of the game? And even if you find someone, what will they do differently? The door to motivation is locked from the inside, and firing the coach would only reinforce for the players that their crummy performance isn't their fault. BUT IT IS. And here's proof:

When was the last time you saw our guys gain the offensive zone by CARRYING THE PUCK ACROSS THE BLUE LINE?? It's no coincidence that the answer is: The last time they won a game!! This team gets lazy, and the first sign of that is the chip and (not so much) charge. Every time we had possession last night between the red line and the Panthers' blue, we sent the puck deep -- their waiting D. Again and again our guys give away possession of the puck. They say the definition of "insanity" is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Well based on that, we must have the craziest players in the league. What hurts even more is that we do the SAME THING on the PP!! At this level there is just no excuse!!

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JustJoe got it right (because he agrees with me, of course :) ). Lavi isn't the problem. Our lineup is still too old, and to that I'll add that our franchise player isn't living up to his billing (let alone his salary). Let me ask all those "replace Lavi"-ites this: Who you gonna get? Who, with an equal or better knowledge of the game? And even if you find someone, what will they do differently? The door to motivation is locked from the inside, and firing the coach would only reinforce for the players that their crummy performance isn't their fault. BUT IT IS. And here's proof:

When was the last time you saw our guys gain the offensive zone by CARRYING THE PUCK ACROSS THE BLUE LINE?? It's no coincidence that the answer is: The last time they won a game!! This team gets lazy, and the first sign of that is the chip and (not so much) charge. Every time we had possession last night between the red line and the Panthers' blue, we sent the puck deep -- their waiting D. Again and again our guys give away possession of the puck. They say the definition of "insanity" is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Well based on that, we must have the craziest players in the league. What hurts even more is that we do the SAME THING on the PP!! At this level there is just no excuse!!

Well, I think we all agree with you that the dump and chase isn't working and that's all we ever do. But I think where many of us...I for one...disagree with you is that it is the coaches job to get the players out of this mentality. They keep doing it over and over again despite its inefficiency....and either the coach approves of the style of play, or cannot take control and get his players to do something different. Either way, it doesn't work. Is he 100% to blame? No, of course not...but he needs to find ways to get these players to play harder, or else try a different style/system of play. For 2 years now, we've shown this lack of effort. If he cannot take control, then we need to find someone who can.

As for who would we get? There are plenty of coaches out there...there are many at the minor league level yearning for a chance to get at the NHL level. There are plenty of assistant coaches in the league who would love a chance. As for what they would do differently...well, that's up to them. But clearly, the current dump-and-chase system is dysfunctional on this team.

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I am SOOOO TOTALLY sick of the dump and chase.

It is NOT working guys.

Get the puck, keep it, cycle low..get goals...

The Canes look slow and unsure. It seems like the moment they "finally" caught up and tied the game at 2, they lost all drive...AGAIN.

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Well, I think we all agree with you that the dump and chase isn't working and that's all we ever do. But I think where many of us...I for one...disagree with you is that it is the coaches job to get the players out of this mentality. They keep doing it over and over again despite its inefficiency....and either the coach approves of the style of play, or cannot take control and get his players to do something different. Either way, it doesn't work. Is he 100% to blame? No, of course not...but he needs to find ways to get these players to play harder, or else try a different style/system of play. For 2 years now, we've shown this lack of effort. If he cannot take control, then we need to find someone who can.

As for who would we get? There are plenty of coaches out there...there are many at the minor league level yearning for a chance to get at the NHL level. There are plenty of assistant coaches in the league who would love a chance. As for what they would do differently...well, that's up to them. But clearly, the current dump-and-chase system is dysfunctional on this team.

I hear ya, but again, they don't dump and chase when they're winning, and nobody's calling for Lavi's head when they are, either. The only way to wake this team up is to cut the dead wood, and that despite all they've done for us in the past, that means guys like Brindy, Wallin, and yes, Whitney. Were it not for his no-trade clause (all of which should be outlawed by the NHL and all other sports in my opinion) I'd also serve notice on E Staal. The level of unprofessionalism by our highest paid guys is inexcuseable, especially when you've got guys like Sammy, LaRose, Cullen, Sutter and Seids out there busting it every night. The coach seems to be getting through to them just fine.

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To get back to lavi and his system, I have always wonderd why some players who are producing are sent down or traded because they dont fit the system and others are kept on when they contribute little to the team. Like why did Lacoture get sent down, he was scoring goals and why back in 05 did we trade Vrbata who was giving us a point per game the few times Lavi would let him play. I tend to think that Lavi isnt flexible enough as a coach and will sacrifice production to to play guys that fit into his system (which the rest of the leauge has been able to handle for going on 3 years now).

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JustJoe got it right (because he agrees with me, of course :) ). Lavi isn't the problem. Our lineup is still too old, and to that I'll add that our franchise player isn't living up to his billing (let alone his salary). Let me ask all those "replace Lavi"-ites this: Who you gonna get? Who, with an equal or better knowledge of the game? And even if you find someone, what will they do differently? The door to motivation is locked from the inside, and firing the coach would only reinforce for the players that their crummy performance isn't their fault. BUT IT IS. And here's proof:

When was the last time you saw our guys gain the offensive zone by CARRYING THE PUCK ACROSS THE BLUE LINE?? It's no coincidence that the answer is: The last time they won a game!! This team gets lazy, and the first sign of that is the chip and (not so much) charge. Every time we had possession last night between the red line and the Panthers' blue, we sent the puck deep -- their waiting D. Again and again our guys give away possession of the puck. They say the definition of "insanity" is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Well based on that, we must have the craziest players in the league. What hurts even more is that we do the SAME THING on the PP!! At this level there is just no excuse!!

I agree with you to an extent, but I feel the players just aren't buying into Lavi's methods anymore. But I also feel some of our players are too old. I think we should give Rowe a chance, even if his style of play is close to the same. Change the roster a little through trades and see what happens. maybe they'll find their niche.

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I hear ya, but again, they don't dump and chase when they're winning, and nobody's calling for Lavi's head when they are, either. The only way to wake this team up is to cut the dead wood, and that despite all they've done for us in the past, that means guys like Brindy, Wallin, and yes, Whitney. Were it not for his no-trade clause (all of which should be outlawed by the NHL and all other sports in my opinion) I'd also serve notice on E Staal. The level of unprofessionalism by our highest paid guys is inexcuseable, especially when you've got guys like Sammy, LaRose, Cullen, Sutter and Seids out there busting it every night. The coach seems to be getting through to them just fine.

now some of the names you mentioned as "deadwood" may be right, but gonna disagree with you mightily on the "Wallin" thing... Pitkanen is more deadwood than Wallin... I have yet to see any upside to this guy... also of note, Wallin's +/- dropped dramatically in the past few games... and why? they changed his partner.... think it's time to fire a coach that can't STICK WITH WHAT WORKS... stop screwin' with the lines that work to try and get better production from those that don't, and for god's sake waive and/or send down the slouches to wake their backsides up (attention P. Eaves, J. Pitkanen, R. Whitney. As far as Staal and Brindy go, I'd say bench them for a few games, it's obvious that they're both playing through injuries) on a brighter note, they just called Dywer back up, 'cause Eaves is hurt.... I'd say keep him up and trade Eaves... Let the whole team know that effort is what gets rewarded, not "name". Also, not sure how this will be recieved, but maybe, just maybe, it's time to bring back the Asst. GM that won us the cup... Francis may just be causing, unwittingly and unintendedly, a conflict as to who is the boss... the coach or the AGM?? just a thought....

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now some of the names you mentioned as "deadwood" may be right, but gonna disagree with you mightily on the "Wallin" thing... Pitkanen is more deadwood than Wallin... I have yet to see any upside to this guy... also of note, Wallin's +/- dropped dramatically in the past few games... and why? they changed his partner.... think it's time to fire a coach that can't STICK WITH WHAT WORKS... stop screwin' with the lines that work to try and get better production from those that don't, and for god's sake waive and/or send down the slouches to wake their backsides up (attention P. Eaves, J. Pitkanen, R. Whitney. As far as Staal and Brindy go, I'd say bench them for a few games, it's obvious that they're both playing through injuries) on a brighter note, they just called Dywer back up, 'cause Eaves is hurt.... I'd say keep him up and trade Eaves... Let the whole team know that effort is what gets rewarded, not "name". Also, not sure how this will be recieved, but maybe, just maybe, it's time to bring back the Asst. GM that won us the cup... Francis may just be causing, unwittingly and unintendedly, a conflict as to who is the boss... the coach or the AGM?? just a thought....

You do realize that Tim Gleason, our #1 defenseman is out of the line up right. The defensive pairings didn't get changed until Gleason got hurt. Lavi had NO choice but to change the pairings. What you going to have Babchuk and Melichar on the same defensive pairing?

If you put a player like Eaves, Pitkanen, or Whitney on waivers, guess what, you won't be waking their backsides up b/c they will be going to another team when a team claims them, like Tampa.

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You do realize that Tim Gleason, our #1 defenseman is out of the line up right. The defensive pairings didn't get changed until Gleason got hurt. Lavi had NO choice but to change the pairings. What you going to have Babchuk and Melichar on the same defensive pairing?

If you put a player like Eaves, Pitkanen, or Whitney on waivers, guess what, you won't be waking their backsides up b/c they will be going to another team when a team claims them, like Tampa.

Wallin paired with Seidenberg when Pitkanen was out of the line up and Gleason only went out recently. It was when Pitkanen returned that the pairings got reshuffled and Wallin eneded up paired with Babchuck in the third paring. Babchuk looked awful at times so Melichar was then brought in after being waived and not claimed. When Gleason went out, and with Kaberle still hurt, there was no choice but to move Wallin up and use Melichar and Babchuk for the third pairing. IMO, Babchuk and Melichar already played their way out of the line up so why not bring up someone from Albany?

All that said, the defense hasn't been the biggest problem with this team and hasn't cost us game after game.

I agree with Luke, this is a really tough position to be in for any team and the last thing we need is to finish the season in the 9-12 spot, which I call

"no man's land." Good enough to not be in the bottom 1/3 for a good draft pick but not good enough to make the playoffs.

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I agree with Luke, this is a really tough position to be in for any team and the last thing we need is to finish the season in the 9-12 spot, I call no man's land. Good enough to not be in the bottom 1/3 for a good draft pick but not good enough to make the playoffs.

Unfortunately, we seem to be headed for the 3rd straight year of this scenario. At least the teams that tank end up getting good draft picks. To me this scenario is the worst, and more likely to turn me off as a fan than say, a few years of rebuilding

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I'm not sure what the system really is but have you ever noticed it seems like other teams always have at least 1 more skater on the ice? They always get the loose pucks,always have a high centered forward to get that 1st quick outlet pass and their off. Is it just that we are slow,old,gliding instead of skating or what? Why have 3 men down below the end line when that leaves only 2 guys to shoot and play defense? Something has to change, even if we don't get rid of anyone can't a SC winning coach come up with a new style or system? If it isn't working anymore then stop! See what other teams do that have the same type of personel and switch to that style. I know it sounds easy sitting here at the computer but why not try to change it can't be much worse.

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I'm not sure what the system really is but have you ever noticed it seems like other teams always have at least 1 more skater on the ice? They always get the loose pucks,always have a high centered forward to get that 1st quick outlet pass and their off. Is it just that we are slow,old,gliding instead of skating or what? Why have 3 men down below the end line when that leaves only 2 guys to shoot and play defense? Something has to change, even if we don't get rid of anyone can't a SC winning coach come up with a new style or system? If it isn't working anymore then stop! See what other teams do that have the same type of personel and switch to that style. I know it sounds easy sitting here at the computer but why not try to change it can't be much worse.

Just to play devils advocate...how do you know they arent making adjustments or trying different things? They've showed that the system works fine when everyone is doing their part but when certain players arent getting it done, for whatever reason, it doesnt work. There have been some changes that Ive noticed but not all work out so well. Or what's more frustrating, some seem to work for some games but then not for the next one. Is that coaching or the players themselves? Hard to say.

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Just to play devils advocate...how do you know they arent making adjustments or trying different things? They've showed that the system works fine when everyone is doing their part but when certain players arent getting it done, for whatever reason, it doesnt work. There have been some changes that Ive noticed but not all work out so well. Or what's more frustrating, some seem to work for some games but then not for the next one. Is that coaching or the players themselves? Hard to say.

Hey TSA, I hope they are at least trying things to see what might work but so far it nothing really seems to be working for a complete game. When the guys get on a role they just can't seem to keep it going for any length of time. Usually not even a full period muchless a game like we have all noticed. Not sure what you have to do to get that effort and intesity for the full 60 minutes. Heck even when we go up by 3 or 4 goals they let down instead of keeping the pedal to the metal. I don't think there is a line change that hasn't been tried at some point in the season and not sure if thats a good thing or bad.

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Hey TSA, I hope they are at least trying things to see what might work but so far it nothing really seems to be working for a complete game. When the guys get on a role they just can't seem to keep it going for any length of time. Usually not even a full period muchless a game like we have all noticed. Not sure what you have to do to get that effort and intesity for the full 60 minutes. Heck even when we go up by 3 or 4 goals they let down instead of keeping the pedal to the metal. I don't think there is a line change that hasn't been tried at some point in the season and not sure if thats a good thing or bad.

I agree and Im not so sure changing the coach and/or the system will make that much of difference. Its really up to the players what they want to give each game and each shift. Does that motivation come from the coaches, sure, but the players perform the actions.

Could it be that they are just an average team on the ice and performing to their level? A .500 team can overachieve at times but will eventually lose enough games to bring them back to .500. Probably not what some want to believe or hear but it could be true.

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It seems like most of the teams that have a "Franchise" player all have another player that isn't to far behind, Caps/Semin. Pens/Malkin, Wings-Zetterburg/Datsyuk(sp?), Maybe we need that 1 guy to take pressure off Staal.

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It seems like most of the teams that have a "Franchise" player all have another player that isn't to far behind, Caps/Semin. Pens/Malkin, Wings-Zetterburg/Datsyuk(sp?), Maybe we need that 1 guy to take pressure off Staal.

I'm guessing that would be Sutter. He'll be that guy within the next couple of years.

And with the exception of the Wings, the Caps and Pens had something in common. They both were awful for several years and aquired several top draft picks. The Canes have been sitting in "no man's land" for a few seasons now.

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i find its hard to get an idea about what the coach does behind the scenes for the team, we aren't in the locker room, we can't take a private survey of the player's opinions.

If he would get fired during the year, I don't believe it would be completely his fault. I also think the firing would be to really shake things up, and Rutherford would be itnerested in the reaction to the firing and see if players start to be more motivated.

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