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WhalefaninCT

Is it time?

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I found interesting what Forslund said this morning on 99.9. He was talking how last year, the team was divided: forwards vs defense. He said if you asked a defenseman what was wrong they'll say the forwards aren't coming back and helping out. If you asked a forward, they'll say the defense can't move the puck.

JR went and got defenseman that can move the puck. Forslund said its now the forwards job to come back and help the defense b/c the defense will be getting them the puck. He also mentioned how with adding Corvo/Pitkanen, this team can be more of a puck control team, a style that fits into the coaches hands.

To me it sounds like JR went and got the players needed to fully take advantage of Lavi's style. Guess time will tell this season.

I agree CLF, which is why we don't need a preseason poll on when to fire Laviolette. We need to see how things unfold, whether or not guys buy into or mail it in. Then decide do we have a bad seed in the locker room or is it a lack of motivation (Lavi). You can't make that assessment in 10 games, by Christmas, at the halfway point, trade deadline, etc. You have to let it unfold.

In the case of Maurice, it was evident 10 games in that no one cared and was not likely to care. JR had two choices, fire the team or fire the coach. It is easier to fire a coach than fire a team. If you have seen some of the interviews with Brindy, he didn't initially buy into Lavi and his system. You have to look big picture before you go firing a coach.

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The Rats played their butts off while a lot of others couldn't get going or had no idea what they needed to do; Stiller said he knew about him being shopped around for a month, about the same time he started his month-long slump; only the penalty box could stop Commie from pinching in; Staal fell into a slump too because for some weird reason he was busier trying to hit people than score; Cole was rumored to be shopped as well but he has been streaky all along; Ladd's ice time started to vary more; Willie got hurt and all along, our D looked like it didn't know whether it was coming or going while Ward was still in backup mode for Gerber. I think if you needed to fix some or all of that, the first one you would look at is Lavi.

I really like that summary. The truth, painful as it may be.

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I agree CLF, which is why we don't need a preseason poll on when to fire Laviolette.

Ya know, I about had it with your cynical redundancy. Who are you to demean anyone and tell them what Canes related subject can or can't be asked in here or what I can or can't be interested in finding out??

To the rest of the members, thanks for participating in the poll and your opinions.

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Umm, clean up on isle 5.

There's no need to make personal attacks in this thread (or anywhere on the board), just as there's no reason people arent allowed to post their own opinions. If you dont like or agree with the thread and cant be respectful, dont read it and please dont respond in it.

Closing till folks can decide to be civil.

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Ya know, I about had it with your cynical redundancy. Who are you to demean anyone and tell them what Canes related subject can or can't be asked in here or what I can or can't be interested in finding out??

To the rest of the members, thanks for participating in the poll and your opinions.

It isn't so much the poll but the timing, training camp is a few days away, we have new faces, and as per the N&O Staal has added bulk. All of us need to wait until there are a few games played to see what happens (are the guys gelling, are they mailing it in, are the line combination's working). As we sit here today, none of us know what the on ice product will look like. The only upcoming event is today's jersey unveil. I have only tried to bring up two points, 1) let's wait and see what the on ice product looks like, 2) If you are going to put Lavi on the hot seat then JR deserves to be there too!!

At the end of the day this is a business and accountability starts at the top. You can't fire Karmonos because he owns the team so the next person down is JR followed by Lavi. If we get hit by the injury bug again then I think we need to take a long hard look at Pete Friesen. Other teams don't seem to have as many issues with injuries as we do so you have to look at why that is happening.

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Where did anyone say we weren't going to wait to see the on-ice product? The whole point of the poll is essentially asking how long we're willing to wait, if the on-ice product is...let's say....rotten? If we stink for the first 15 games, do you get rid of Lavi then and try and salvage the season? Do you wait until Christmas to see how things pan out?

Unless I've severely misunderstood the poll, that's all the TC was asking.

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Way off topic,but were in the hell are the Bolts getting all this cash to sign people???

they are spending to the cap limit and may be back loading some deals like the rags. i think the cap is at $56mil and they have only spent $54.

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While I believe we are going to have a better team than some appear to think...here's my two cents.

I vote for Karmanos taking stock at mid season if we are not playing well/ a change needs to be made and JR feels that Lavi can not do the job then he gets stuck being GM/Head Coach for the rest of the year. May be that would give him a better idea of what type of caoch this team needs. Didn't the Devils GM do something similar a few years back?

Just a side note on the Mo Must Go....One comment that came out of that I always thought was interesting was Francis saying when Mo left that we just lost one of the top coaches in the NHL. Not sure if he still sees Mo in that light since he's been in the front office though.

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Another thing Forslund touched on was that its going to take the defense time to gell with each other. He said its going to take more than a couple games for them to get comfortable with each other. So if the team is not doing so hot in the first 10 games, is it fair to fire the coach? He said as important as it is for teams to get off to a great start, in not so many words, he said he might not happen for this team, it depends on how fast the defense can come together.

In Paul Branecky's blog, its stated that Rutherford said Gleason/Pitkanen will be the first pairing. He then said Corvo would be 2nd pairing and who is with him depends on: Seidenberg, Wallin, or Babchuk. Whichever one of these shows chemistry with Corvo is on the 2nd pair.

You'd have to think that its going to take time getting Gleason/Pitkanen used to each other's style of play. And who knows how long its going to take to find a defensive-defenseman that meshes well with Corvo.

In all honesty firing the coach before Christmas is premature.

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Way off topic,but were in the hell are the Bolts getting all this cash to sign people???

Really off topic. Im sure there's a thread somewhere for the Lightning's off season signings in "around the NHL".

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At the end of the day this is a business and accountability starts at the top. You can't fire Karmonos because he owns the team so the next person down is JR followed by Lavi. If we get hit by the injury bug again then I think we need to take a long hard look at Pete Friesen. Other teams don't seem to have as many issues with injuries as we do so you have to look at why that is happening.

Very true! I am too lazy to go and Google the exact stats but we most likely lead the league in injuries (number of players injured, number of man-games lost..) in the last 2 seasons. If we don't, then we're up there in top 3, that's for sure. If this trend continues next season the staff members involved in the conditioning process need to be on the hot seat

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I think we lost 330 man games due to injuries. I think I read somewhere that we lead the league in that stat.

After the Stanley Cup final of '02 Mo had pretty much lost the team, Irbe's demands for a new contract didn't help. His style of play IMO was boring, play not to lose, dump and chase hockey. Mo tried to hard to be everybody's "buddy" on the team, when you do that you generally lose the respect of the players.

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It isn't so much the poll but the timing, training camp is a few days away, we have new faces, and as per the N&O Staal has added bulk. All of us need to wait until there are a few games played to see what happens (are the guys gelling, are they mailing it in, are the line combination's working). As we sit here today, none of us know what the on ice product will look like. The only upcoming event is today's jersey unveil. I have only tried to bring up two points, 1) let's wait and see what the on ice product looks like, 2) If you are going to put Lavi on the hot seat then JR deserves to be there too!!

At the end of the day this is a business and accountability starts at the top. You can't fire Karmonos because he owns the team so the next person down is JR followed by Lavi. If we get hit by the injury bug again then I think we need to take a long hard look at Pete Friesen. Other teams don't seem to have as many issues with injuries as we do so you have to look at why that is happening.

I got all that, but the timing of the poll has absolutely nothing to do with the subject.

If YOU, for the sake of discussion, would be interested to find out how bad LAVI would have to do his job or what circumstances would have to exist before everyone else would let him go (if they were IN JR's SHOES), what would you think of someone constantly downplaying or derailing the discussion?? I mean if you're interested to find out when JR should be fired or would rather talk about a current event like the unveiling of the third jersey, more power to you. Feel free to start your own poll.

Like I said at the beginning, I'm not head hunting Lavi nor was it me who put him in the hot seat. JR has done that with his actions and comments during the summer and the media has picked up on that too, so it's not something far fetched at all. That we don't have a choice and have to wait and see how the team will gell is a given but it don't mean that we can't speculate about JR, does it?

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Last year I wondered if Laviolette had lost the team. But then JR (later than ideal) finally shook up the team with a trade, the team came on like gang busters. Even that last game the team played very hard with a huge edge in play, a little timely goal tending and we were in the playoffs despite a mind boggling run at the end by the Caps. Laviolette had not lost the team, rather a few key players. When the Rat pack arrived the team went on that run at the end despite key injuries to a bunch of major producers (Whitney, Brindy, Cullen, Williams).

If our funk continued beyond the Corvo, Eaves, Stillman, Commodore trade, then yes, he lost the team. Now with more vets gone and more new blood and hopefully everyone healthy we will all see what a good coach Laviolette is.

I understand the frustration of ownership with missing the playoffs, but it was a bad move to leave Lavi twisting in the wind. Either fire him or get behind him in public. Sends the wrong message to the team. That was the biggest mistake in this whole thing. If ownership and JR got behind Lavi when they should have, this thread doesn't exist. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it serves notice and somehow Lavi coaches harder or better, but I see it as mishandled based on emotion.

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Last year I wondered if Laviolette had lost the team. But then JR (later than ideal) finally shook up the team with a trade, the team came on like gang busters. Even that last game the team played very hard with a huge edge in play, a little timely goal tending and we were in the playoffs despite a mind boggling run at the end by the Caps. Laviolette had not lost the team, rather a few key players. When the Rat pack arrived the team went on that run at the end despite key injuries to a bunch of major producers (Whitney, Brindy, Cullen, Williams).

If our funk continued beyond the Corvo, Eaves, Stillman, Commodore trade, then yes, he lost the team. Now with more vets gone and more new blood and hopefully everyone healthy we will all see what a good coach Laviolette is.

I understand the frustration of ownership with missing the playoffs, but it was a bad move to leave Lavi twisting in the wind. Either fire him or get behind him in public. Sends the wrong message to the team. That was the biggest mistake in this whole thing. If ownership and JR got behind Lavi when they should have, this thread doesn't exist. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it serves notice and somehow Lavi coaches harder or better, but I see it as mishandled based on emotion.

Thanks, that was very well put!!

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Caniac

I am a frustrated caniac. The best thing that has happened to this franchise is the hiring of Peter Laviolette. He won a stanley cup for the us and yet the GM/owner still has him on the hot seat. From my sources, Peter was the last to be informed about the press conference for Staal's new deal. It's like the GM/Owner are setting him up to fail. I guarantee if they have a 3 or 4 game losing streak at the beginning of the year they are going to yank him and put an unproven coach from our minor league system in (Tom Rowe). Why do you think Jeff Daniel's is not with the team anymore and Tom Rowe is assistant coach? So Peter can get canned and Tom can take over when they lose 3 in a row.

It's frustrating to put all the blame on the coach. We went from one of the MOST BORING offenses with Paul Maurice (just ask Toronto about their offense now), to an explosive offense under Peter Laviolette. The reason we didn't make the playoffs is because JIM RUTHERFORD! He sat back and let our defense SUCK! Yes you JIM RUTHERFORD, you are to blame. We have put together one of the worst defenses ever. Kaberle is a waste of ice time, Wallin is slow and has no clue how to pass a puck and you kept Hedican and Welsey around for 2 years too long (granted you couldn't dump Hedican's over priced salary to any other team because they would laugh at you!).

Yes we have brought in Ah Oh Corvo, and Jani but it's not the coach that's going to lose the games. It's the defense and the man behind the pipes. I am sorry but Wardo has not been "great" since game 3 of the Stanley Cup finals. We can not ride the stanley cup run anymore. He needs to become a consistently great goalie or we need to look else where.

The GM/owner has put too much of the blame on Peter. Yes this hasn't been too public but I am close to the situation and the only reason JIM RUTHERFORD didn't fire Peter is because of his approval ratings amongst the players and fans. We need to stop praising JIM RUTHERFORD. He is not the "GM of the year". He is a terrible GM and if he doesn't realize that he has a diamond in the rough with Peter Laviolette, then he is going to lose him to Atlanta. Yeap, Don Waddell was ready to scoop Peter. He called and asked for permission to talk to Peter. One 3 game losing streak and we are going to have an unproven minor league coach behind the bench and the next bench over is going to have a Stanley Cup winning coach, Peter Laviolette, running up the score with Atlanta in our building, just to shove it in JIM RUTHERFORD's face..

Please keep supporting Coach Lavy. He is the reason for the success of our team. I am a die-hard canes fan. I support Peter and the players on the ice. I, like many of you die-hards, were sickened how the year ended. We have new hope this year with a re-signed Eric Staal, and a healthy Rod and Justin. I pray for the defense and the man between the pipes. We will score. But did JIM RUTHERFORD do enough to help a TERRIBLE defense. Time will tell.

Thanks and I can't wait for hockey season!

Go Canes

Chris

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Why do I get the impression you might be over reacting? What does Peter not being involved in management decisions and contract haggling have to do with being set up to fail by JR because of it? Staal was going to be in Raleigh next season with or without the contract. I'm sure Lavi has a lot of other concerns this time of year.

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