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WhalefaninCT

Is it time?

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And they are improving, even if not in the leaps and bounds it seems like they should be able to. It seems to me that the best bet is if the team can turn it around themselves. They will be a better team for it, rather than depending on a band-aid that will simply disguise the problems for a few games. I hope they get that chance, and I hope they are up to the task.

This could be the most logical thing Ive read on this board in a long time. If they figure this out from within, they will have what it takes to get through any other adversity that comes along. Doesnt mean they'll win a Cup, but they could have enough trust and belief in each other to make it to the playoffs. We've seen how far that can take a team.

If they keep interchanging the pieces, its going to be real hard to depend on each other.

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There's already been talk(over the summer), the results are the same and it's not acceptable. Get the job done or find someone who can! I don't think the players like Lavi's system, so they're simply gonna rebel against it untill something changes. Just like me, the players know its just more of the same, and that we need someone too get to the front of the net when we are on the power-play, collect those rebounds, Detroit does it and so do many other teams and they cash in quite a bit. Last night I was watching Edmonton vs. Colorado, Ryan Smyth did the little things right by going to the net(and he's not even a center), he scored a goal on Roloson that wouldn't have happened if he had not done so. Staal seems to be afraid of the net a times! That being said, change the coach, change the system, and get us a center who can stand put in front of the net.

I am guilty of making this comment earlier today, before the game.... I would like to dismiss my quote here. After going to the game and seeing that the wheels are in motion and the team is reacting as a unit. I still feel something is missing (ie; a star winger to complement Staal) but I can tell that this team wants to get better and todays shoot-out winner is a great start. Sorry for doubting you Lavi, and sorry to the great fans of this board for my countless BS rants! Hopefully they can fix all the little things and make a great run to the play-offs. GO CANES!!!!!!!!!!!

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I am guilty of making this comment earlier today, before the game.... I would like to dismiss my quote here. After going to the game and seeing that the wheels are in motion and the team is reacting as a unit. I still feel something is missing (ie; a star winger to complement Staal) but I can tell that this team wants to get better and todays shoot-out winner is a great start. Sorry for doubting you Lavi, and sorry to the great fans of this board for my countless BS rants! Hopefully they can fix all the little things and make a great run to the play-offs. GO CANES!!!!!!!!!!!

We have this in writing now so the next ugly loss...... ;)

Winning cures a lot of ills.

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We have this in writing now so the next ugly loss...... ;)

Winning cures a lot of ills.

I'm gonna stick to my word, I want nothing but the best for this team and negativity gets nothing done. But.......... winning really does help! LOL!!!

Thanks TSA!!!

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I really don't which thread to post this in since we have several to choose from that it may fit (fire coach, gameday, etc.).

The team got a win yesterday against TB. Was it a Picasso, no, but it was a win. Better yet, it was a shootout win (and I hate shootouts although they are exciting, but that was another thread). It does a lot for the mental state of the team. Cam makes a statement by holding off some pretty good shooters. The team wins one and stops the 0'fer. Brindy seems to be picking it up. BROOKBANK SCORES! It's a feel good day for everybody and you could see it in the players faces after the game as they were signing autographs. Several players walked the line. I told Gleason and Seidenberg that it was great to see them smiling and Gleason said that happens when you win. My wife was taking a picture of my girls with Cam. She said "Everybody say Cam's awesome". Cam was the only one that said it and I died laughing. The players needed that win pretty badly.

On to coach. I haven't been in the "Fire Lavi" camp, but was smart enough to know that if the slide continued, it was inevitable. I agree that the team has been underperforming, but it seems more of some players need to step up and some team chemistry is needed. Sometimes a win like yesterday can go a long way to improve things.

My thoughts all along that was the end of November was going to be crucial. We have a very favorable home schedule in November and most of the players are back, or close to back. The coach and team have time to right the ship, but there is a 4 day break between the Nov 28 game and the next game on Dec 4.

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but there is a 4 day break between the Nov 28 game and the next game on Dec 4.

Uh, there's a game on Nov 30. At home. Vs the Ducks.

Anyhow, I'll stick to what I said before. The proverbial playoff push starts now, the rest of the season should be divided into segments, and at the end of each segment the team effort, the results and the coaching should be evaluated. Right now we have the 4 game home stand, from which we should reasonably expect at least 6 points. We got 2 from the TBL game, we need 4 more from the remaining games vs MTL, PHX, and NSH.

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Uh, there's a game on Nov 30. At home. Vs the Ducks.

My bad. I'm looking at the schedule and they snuck that 11/30 game in the same block as the 11/23. It doesn't change my opinion that Dec. 1 could be the point of no return for a coaching change.

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I'm glad they got a win but it doesn't change the fact that Lavi should still be fired.

This thread should also require people to give their opinion as to what they would do once Laviolette is fired. Are there any up and coming coaches in the RYHA?

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The issue with the Canes can be summed up as 'consistency'. Yes, it was really nice to see them win yesterday, and in a SO at that. That being said....

Since the '06 run the problem has been that the team is inconsistent in their play. Win two, drop three, get a point on a tie/loss, win one, lose two....you get the picture. The team struggles to stay at .500 and we go through stretches of dismal performances. Anyone watching the Capitols game last Wednesday wouldn't argue that.

There is another thread suggesting that JR should be fired. Rutherford isn't responsible for the team's inconsistent play, Coach Laviolette is. From Rutherford's standpoint, the issue is a venue at less than 2/3rds capacity on a Sunday afternoon, and the inconsistency of the teams' play is a big part of that. I know that we can't win them all, and that we aren't going to, but the bottom line for the club and their future here in NC comes down to getting butts in seats and that isn't going to happen until the team starts playing and that means that Rutherford needs to take a long look at the fact that since '06 "the system" has broken down. And "the system" is Laviolette.

I brought this up yesterday on the postgame show and pretty much got dressed down by Forslund, and I maybe should have been, but Forslund has drunk the Kool-aid, and will continue to do so until he gets that big contract offer from Versus he's been angling for. Nevertheless, I need to put on my asbestos underwear, and say what many, many fans are saying.

I admire and appreciate what Peter Laviolette has accomplished here with the Hurricanes, but it is time for him to move on, now before we get mired too deeply into the season, too far back in the standings. Every NHL team in the League is now familiar with "the system", and has evolved the defense necessary to take what advantages it used to have for our team and turn them against us. We have a power play that is anemic at best, we turn the puck over in the offensive zone with nauseating regularity because we dump and chase, we get hunted down in the neutral zone, and our SOG stat has dropped like the stock market. We don't shoot, we don't hit, we don't skate, and attendance is dropping.

I don't know who is out there who can turn the team around, but it needs to be done and that person needs to be found, and soon. It was great that we won yesterday, but I'm not holding my breath.

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I thought I would look at some numbers especially since I have been critical of Lavi. Here are some numbers to consider. We are finally getting healthy and it is starting to show on the ice in the last two games. With a little bit more chemistry on the lines and it won't be hard to improve our 5-5 scoring and lower our GAA average. Imagine whats possible if they get the powerplay mystery solved with a little less dump and chase.

Goals for Averages:

08/09 - 2.67 (19th)

07/08 - 3.05 (5th)

06/07 - 2.94 (13th)

05/06 - 3.49 (3rd)

Powerplay:

08/09 - 16.1% (21st)

07/08 - 18.8% (8th)

06/07 - 15 (25th)

05/06 - 17.9 (17th)

Goals Against Averages:

08/09 - 3 (20th)

07/08 - 3 (25th)

06/07 - 3.02 (20th)

05/06 - 3.15 (19th)

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The issue with the Canes can be summed up as 'consistency'. Yes, it was really nice to see them win yesterday, and in a SO at that. That being said....

Since the '06 run the problem has been that the team is inconsistent in their play. Win two, drop three, get a point on a tie/loss, win one, lose two....you get the picture. The team struggles to stay at .500 and we go through stretches of dismal performances. Anyone watching the Capitols game last Wednesday wouldn't argue that.

There is another thread suggesting that JR should be fired. Rutherford isn't responsible for the team's inconsistent play, Coach Laviolette is. From Rutherford's standpoint, the issue is a venue at less than 2/3rds capacity on a Sunday afternoon, and the inconsistency of the teams' play is a big part of that. I know that we can't win them all, and that we aren't going to, but the bottom line for the club and their future here in NC comes down to getting butts in seats and that isn't going to happen until the team starts playing and that means that Rutherford needs to take a long look at the fact that since '06 "the system" has broken down. And "the system" is Laviolette.

I brought this up yesterday on the postgame show and pretty much got dressed down by Forslund, and I maybe should have been, but Forslund has drunk the Kool-aid, and will continue to do so until he gets that big contract offer from Versus he's been angling for. Nevertheless, I need to put on my asbestos underwear, and say what many, many fans are saying.

I admire and appreciate what Peter Laviolette has accomplished here with the Hurricanes, but it is time for him to move on, now before we get mired too deeply into the season, too far back in the standings. Every NHL team in the League is now familiar with "the system", and has evolved the defense necessary to take what advantages it used to have for our team and turn them against us. We have a power play that is anemic at best, we turn the puck over in the offensive zone with nauseating regularity because we dump and chase, we get hunted down in the neutral zone, and our SOG stat has dropped like the stock market. We don't shoot, we don't hit, we don't skate, and attendance is dropping.

I don't know who is out there who can turn the team around, but it needs to be done and that person needs to be found, and soon. It was great that we won yesterday, but I'm not holding my breath.

You make it sound as if the Hurricanes are a less than .500 team. They aren't. The team may be having some trouble getting the puck in the net over the last ten days, but prior to that had scored 11 goals in two games against Toronto. Every team goes through droughts. Even Detroit - the defending Stanley Cup champs - went through a dreadful stretch last February where they lost 10 of 11 games in just over three weeks. 10 out of 11! Imagine if they had overreacted and gotten rid of Mike Babcock.

I am concerned about the turnovers, the odd man rushes, and the lack of confidence a few of our top players have displayed when shooting the puck lately, as well. But I'm willing to give the coach and the team some time to work on those issues before I begin calling for a coaching change.

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Fire the coach...fire the GM....send Brind 'Amour to the pasture...

Please....get a grip.

What should we do, have a promotion where the first people to the Arena get some pads, skates, and a stick and then a drawing to see who gets to be coach for the day. We're still pretty early in the season...the guys have had to face some aversity, injuries, and are working through the chemistry issue of changing lines and players. While I've got some beefs myself with some of the things I see on the ice, the Canes are still in the thick of things and seem to be at the point of turning the corner and getting relatively healthy. I feel fairly positive about the team and think we will be a force to reckon with come playoff time.

Some of the threads just make you want to shake your head and roll your eyes.

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Excellent first post, a well written and laid out argument, it has to be said, regardless of whether 1 agrees w/ it or not! So, you are the guy that called in to the 99.9 post-game show yesterday after the game and said that Laviolette still should be fired. I didn't catch the end of your call, b/c I was just pulling into my garage, and by the time I shut the car off and got into the living room and turned on the radio it was over and I only caught Forslund's and Maniscalco's responses to you.

I do agree with you that the Lavioilette's system is a bust. It was something that worked great in 05-06 and brought us the Stanley Cup, but unfortunately the things have changed since then. The league has reverted back to the pre-lockout criteria, and the infractions that led to so many penalties in our favor a few years ago are now often tolerated. The opposing team's defenses have figured out our system and adapted accordingly, and in the cases when they still couldn't match us, they resorted to clutching and grabbing, headhunting, and cheap shots, with referees tolerating all of this on a regular basis, while our players are unable to respond in kind, due to lack of physical size and Lavi's no fighting/no retaliation policy. Also, keep in mind that some players who thrived in coach Laviolette's system and made it work have gotten older, some have been hampered by serious injuries, and others are no longer with the team. Another important part of the system is the PP. If you are faster and more skilled team, you should be drawing more penalties, and your PP should be good if for no other reason than because it gets a lot of "on the job training". That was also evident in 05-06, but it's no more.

Now the real question is, the 1 that determines with whom lies the culpability for current state of affairs (and I challenge everyone here to think back, way back, before Nov 1 this year, before the end of last season, back to the beginning of the 06-07 season), why there were no major changes done? Is coach Laviolette w/ JR's blessings stubbornly clinging to the system? Or is he trying to modify it and adapt to changes, only to have his hands tied by JR insisting that the system stays? Or are they both on the same page and trying to change the system, but the real failure is the bad selection of personnel to carry out this change? See, it's easy just to say "fire the coach", but there are other things to be considered.

I also have to defend Forslund's response to you. The man works for the organization, and is bound by both contractual obligations and personal integrity not to make any controversial statements and to defend the team, its players, coaching staff and management during his on-air performance. His job is primarily to analyze the on-ice events, not to second guess what JR or PK do.

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You make it sound as if the Hurricanes are a less than .500 team. They aren't.
Good post, lewberts. These guys who keeping calling these last two seasons dismal, awful, poor, etc., have a point...but only so far. Before throwing the coach under the bus, do folks realize last year's 92 points WAS THE SECOND BEST SEASON in the HISTORY OF THE HURRICANES???

"Oh," they say, "but that's only the Hurricanes' history. That doesn't include the 18 years of Whaler's history."

O.K., I'll add the Whalers and still last years 92 points was still the THIRD BEST SEASON in the HISTORY of the Whaler/Cane franchises' 29 seasons!

Under Lavi, in his three full seasons, the Canes have had the best season, the third best season, and the fifth best season in points in the 29 years of franchise history.

I realize point totals are distorting over time (especially since ties have been eliminated), but still a little perspective on the team's current "awful, dismal" whatever play would be welcome. One wonders how many of the fans that are calling for heads to roll were Cane's fans in 2003-2004...(talk about dismal! :P )

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A shootout victory against one of the worst teams in the NHL, in their first game with a new head coach, at home is not the type of victory that changes this team. Beat Montreal, then we'll see if anything has changed at all with this team. I don't think it has.

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A shootout victory against one of the worst teams in the NHL, in their first game with a new head coach, at home is not the type of victory that changes this team. Beat Montreal, then we'll see if anything has changed at all with this team. I don't think it has.

When a team is down, any kind of victory over any team can change things. Look at the things from yesterday. We get a goal from Brookbank, the most unlikely of scorers. Brindy is coming around and has been playing better the last two games. Staal and Samsonov looked pretty good even though they didn't score. Cam comes up big and wins a shootout, and we don't win shootouts. Now we have a goalie riding a high. If you have any doubts about that, you should have seen him signing autographs yesterday. Walker is getting his legs back and had a good game.

Just like there is no such thing as a morale victory, there is no such thing as a bad victory. We shall see. It may start a good run.

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A shootout victory against one of the worst teams in the NHL, in their first game with a new head coach, at home is not the type of victory that changes this team. Beat Montreal, then we'll see if anything has changed at all with this team. I don't think it has.

I don't like being a pessimist and I don't try to play devil's advocate, but I agree with JustJoe here. Tampa was a feel good win, but nothing has changed unless we see a full 60 minute effort over a stretch of games, continuing with the MTL game.

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Good post, lewberts. These guys who keeping calling these last two seasons dismal, awful, poor, etc., have a point...but only so far. Before throwing the coach under the bus, do folks realize last year's 92 points WAS THE SECOND BEST SEASON in the HISTORY OF THE HURRICANES???

And what did that get us? A #14 overall pick, and golf in April. The team record was also over .500 in 06-07, and no playoffs. People complain about 02-03 and 03-04, but forget that we got Eric Staal and Andrew Ladd/Tuomo Ruutu as a result.

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First, I am really beginning to think that the phrase "a full 60 minute effort" out to be outlawed. Just like "injuries are no excuse". Does any team really go full throttle for 60 minutes night after night? I think it is a cliche, like giving 110%, that is a goal to focus on rather than a real outcome. Every game goes through periods of changing momentum and ups and downs. I'm sure that there are nights where teams come close to this ideal, but to do it "consisitantly" is probably a pipe dream. Allegedly other teams in the league think that the Canes are one of the hardest working teams in the league THIS YEAR. Yet we fans seem to see poor effort all the time. Yes, the Washington game and the Atlanta game were bad. But yesterday the effort was good.

More and more I am convinced that the fire the coach talk is very premature. He has not lost the team, they responded yesterday. Go back and watch that first period. We really should have had at least two goals before they ever scored. And there were two solid reasons to disallow their second goal. And yes it was Tampa, but they were playing their first game for their new coach, traditionally teams play above their heads in those games.

This team went 8-4-2 over it's first 14 games including a brutal road stretch and games vs. the most elite teams in the league. This despite an injury load, that IS an excuse though it wasn't needed.

I can't help but wonder what our record would be like if Eric Staal were playing even close to his potential, or if Samsonov had the nearly point a game that he had at the end of last year (with the same head coach). Give us just a modest production from those guys and it has to be good for at least 2 more wins. That would put us at 11-5-2. If you have a fully health Pitkanen and Brindy, I am sure we would have gotten at least those 2 wins. That doesn't even consider the production a healthy Justin Williams would bring. Would you still want to fire the coach at 11-5-2? Way too early for this.

If Staal comes back to us, now, just as our returning players are finding their rhythm it will all start working again. Just like it did at the end of last year. With, by the way, our current head coach.

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How bout we play a couple games with a now full healthy line up before we continue on with Lavi sucks he must go. Has anyone really taken a look at this team and really thought it out, have you looked at ALL the new faces on this team.

Over the summer wasn't it discussed how this team with ALL the new faces would take time to gel and find chemistry?

Point is we knew coming into this season that getting chemistry and finding lines that work would take some time. With ALL the injuries this team had from the start, is anyone honestly surprised that they still lack chemistry. We've had guys in and out of the line up like a revolving door. How does anyone expect these guys to find chemistry when their linemates are changing every game. And I know some will say well that's b/c Lavi keeps changing them. Well what is he supposed to do, when you have wingers and centerman in and out. They have to change in order to compliment the guys they have in the line up. Its not as simple as saying well Ruutu is out so we'll just call up a rat and insert him in his top line spot. Not going to happen.

Samething goes with the defense. These guys have NEVER played together before. Each defensive partner is new. Its going to take time till these guys figure out their partner and get to know their game. Especially the ones who are paired with Corvo and Pitkanen. They are going to have to learn when these guys are going to pinch and what not. Remember, we've NEVER had offensive-defenseman who love to pinch as much as these guys do. Its going to take time for their partners and the 3 forwards on the ice to learn their game.

With that all said, instead of sitting here and calling for Lavi's head, we should actually be thankfuly we are still in the fight and not sitting way at the bottom, like oh say Florida. Or how bout the Senators who have like a 5 game loosing streak, etc.

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How bout we play a couple games with a now full healthy line up before we continue on with Lavi sucks he must go. Has anyone really taken a look at this team and really thought it out, have you looked at ALL the new faces on this team.

Over the summer wasn't it discussed how this team with ALL the new faces would take time to gel and find chemistry?

Point is we knew coming into this season that getting chemistry and finding lines that work would take some time. With ALL the injuries this team had from the start, is anyone honestly surprised that they still lack chemistry. We've had guys in and out of the line up like a revolving door. How does anyone expect these guys to find chemistry when their linemates are changing every game. And I know some will say well that's b/c Lavi keeps changing them. Well what is he supposed to do, when you have wingers and centerman in and out. They have to change in order to compliment the guys they have in the line up. Its not as simple as saying well Ruutu is out so we'll just call up a rat and insert him in his top line spot. Not going to happen.

Samething goes with the defense. These guys have NEVER played together before. Each defensive partner is new. Its going to take time till these guys figure out their partner and get to know their game. Especially the ones who are paired with Corvo and Pitkanen. They are going to have to learn when these guys are going to pinch and what not. Remember, we've NEVER had offensive-defenseman who love to pinch as much as these guys do. Its going to take time for their partners and the 3 forwards on the ice to learn their game.

With that all said, instead of sitting here and calling for Lavi's head, we should actually be thankfuly we are still in the fight and not sitting way at the bottom, like oh say Florida. Or how bout the Senators who have like a 5 game loosing streak, etc.

It's funny you and I must have written our posts at the same time. (Go back one). I agree with you.

Also, in the Atlanta game, we brought back 3 players from injury all at once. Guys almost never play very well their first game back from long stretches out, yet we brought back 3 at once. I'm not saying we shouldn't get those guys back in, just that we need to give them a few games to get back into form. Now it will start paying off. If we could just get Staal right.

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I feel great about our teams win on Sunday. We dug out of a 0-2 hole and actually won a shootout for a change. We also spoiled Tampa Bay's coachs debut. :) Do I think all our problems are solved? Of course not but we are hopefully moving in the right direction. Our returning players are getting some of that rust off and hopefully the pucks will start hitting the back of the net. Tuesdays game at Montreal will be a big test for us. Go Canes!

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It's funny you and I must have written our posts at the same time. (Go back one). I agree with you.

Also, in the Atlanta game, we brought back 3 players from injury all at once. Guys almost never play very well their first game back from long stretches out, yet we brought back 3 at once. I'm not saying we shouldn't get those guys back in, just that we need to give them a few games to get back into form. Now it will start paying off. If we could just get Staal right.

I was thinking that with the amount of character this team has, it shouldn't be a problem for this team to gel as a unit and become more fluid with their passes and finishes. I have a feeling that J. Willy is gonna bring it when he returns. If you look as the photo of him in the GOLD (not yellow) jersey... he looks like he's ready to return now judging by that giant smile on his face!! Can't wait till he returns! Goals are gonna come... I can feel it!!! GO 'CANES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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How bout we play a couple games with a now full healthy line up before we continue on with Lavi sucks he must go. Has anyone really taken a look at this team and really thought it out, have you looked at ALL the new faces on this team.

Over the summer wasn't it discussed how this team with ALL the new faces would take time to gel and find chemistry?

Point is we knew coming into this season that getting chemistry and finding lines that work would take some time. With ALL the injuries this team had from the start, is anyone honestly surprised that they still lack chemistry. We've had guys in and out of the line up like a revolving door. How does anyone expect these guys to find chemistry when their linemates are changing every game. And I know some will say well that's b/c Lavi keeps changing them. Well what is he supposed to do, when you have wingers and centerman in and out. They have to change in order to compliment the guys they have in the line up. Its not as simple as saying well Ruutu is out so we'll just call up a rat and insert him in his top line spot. Not going to happen.

Samething goes with the defense. These guys have NEVER played together before. Each defensive partner is new. Its going to take time till these guys figure out their partner and get to know their game. Especially the ones who are paired with Corvo and Pitkanen. They are going to have to learn when these guys are going to pinch and what not. Remember, we've NEVER had offensive-defenseman who love to pinch as much as these guys do. Its going to take time for their partners and the 3 forwards on the ice to learn their game.

With that all said, instead of sitting here and calling for Lavi's head, we should actually be thankfuly we are still in the fight and not sitting way at the bottom, like oh say Florida. Or how bout the Senators who have like a 5 game loosing streak, etc.

Make that a 6 game losing streak for Ottawa.. losing in the shoot-out to The Rangers!!! Ha-ha, I love it!!!

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