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philsmith

What's going on we don't see or know?

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TLDR ;)

Well, since you seem to ask a lot of things in one post, I'll try and address it the best I can:

1. Many are waiting "X" amount of games after a coaching change for the exact reason you stated. To see how the players react to the coaching change, and to see if the new coach can turn the team around. Lavi was given 25 games to start the season and then was fired after the 25th. Seems reasonable to see how Maurice does in 25 games as well.

2. No fanbase is loud during all times during play. You're imagining things if you think you've seen that happen. Now, I've never been to the Bell Centre, but I'm willing to bet Montreal fans don't follow every whim of the Jumbotron either. They're more vocal than we are, no doubt about that, but it might be because they've had more to cheer about this year than we have. They also might have more faith in their team, because their team has given them reason to have faith.

Just like the players have to fake confidence, many times, the fans have to fake support. It's difficult to get excited when the team's down 3-1 and there's 5 minutes left in the 3rd. Some games, it doesn't seem like all the support in the world will change the result on the ice. If the team wants fan support, give them something to cheer about. Blowing a lead won't get the fans off their feet, nor will taking a penalty in a tie game.

3. No one's claiming to know what goes through a coach's head when he makes the decisions that he does. However, that shouldn't stop the discussion of why he made a particular decision, nor should it stop the voicing of the pleasure/displeasure of the decision. We all assume that whatever decision they make, they make for the betterment of the team. However, when a decision doesn't work out as planned, should we not question what went wrong, or why it was made at all?

The coach's don't give out a lot of information, but what little information they give reaches the fanbase in some way or another. Forslund and Tripp do a good job of keeping the fans updated, and we've got a beat writer who does....occasional work (Come back, Luke. Please.) And there's always the post-game interviews with the coach and players. You piece enough of those together, and you get a general idea of why a decision was made.

IMHO, of course.

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Froggy,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. As you can guess, I'm trying to stir the thinking up and give us a place to look from at what's going on besides making the players out to be bumbling jackasses. :) Looking from where the coaches are looking or trying to figure out what the coaches are thinking, would be for me a welcome relief from reading our opinions about what's wrong and hoping coaches are reading this board and so they can get the benefit of our brilliance as we attack players like wild animals on a feeding frenzy. :rolleyes:

You say, "Just like the players have to fake confidence, many times, the fans have to fake support. It's difficult to get excited when the team's down 3-1 and there's 5 minutes left in the 3rd. Some games, it doesn't seem like all the support in the world will change the result on the ice. If the team wants fan support, give them something to cheer about. Blowing a lead won't get the fans off their feet, nor will taking a penalty in a tie game."

There's no arguing that it's difficult to get excited when the team's down 3-1 and there's 5 minutes left in the 3rd. But that has not occurred as I recall since Mo's first game back. We are having a difficult time faking support with the scored tied in the middle of the 3rd.

I have experienced people standing, making noise and creating energy in the building. The noise was to cause something, something that was not going to happen by waiting for the team to inspire us. I agree you can't do that all the time. My point is with all the negativity we are creating, we are bringing that with us into the RBC and IMO it is affecting the fans ability to generate positive energy at all. I'm amazed that you see it is the teams responsibility to fire the fans up. Most fans think that it's the other way around. If you are right about this, we are in deep doodie.

I'm not against criticism, but an entire thread designed to enroll others into running our captain out of town on a rail, is way beyond criticism. We, the fan base, are developing a keen eye for everything we think is wrong. Threads that demand to know how JR had the audacity to make a decision the fans with money did not approve of, are way over the top. LaRose fans can't just be for LaRose, they have to attack Brind'Amour to make their case for more time for LaRose. Pitting on player against another is divisive to say the least. Brindy is 2nd on the team in assists for God's sake but all some can see are mistakes. I contend that this type attitude carries over to the RBC and ultimately is a vicious circle. The more negative attitude we bring to the building, the less inspired the team is. The less inspired the team is, the more negative our attitude becomes. We can justify our negative attitudes or we can transcend the tendency to be negative. Which will empower the team?

I respect your right to be negative and your right to defend negativity, but I don't have to agree it is in our best interest just because we are fans. Our passion as fans properly channeled is a definite advantage, but left to run wild can be a destructive force. It really is our choice and a tough choice to make for those of us who are addicted to arguing and being critical of the team.

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I believe for a lot of us, it's hard to get excited about the team, to show real support, because too often they've let us down.

You want a situation where all the fan support in the world couldn't change the game? Try the last game of last season. What a heartbreaker that was. Sellout crowd, pumped up, screaming, chanting, doing all the right things. Because after all, they win and it's the playoffs. And it's Florida, a team that hadn't beaten us in the RBC since dinosaurs roamed the earth.

And even when the team went down early, and went down by a lot, the crowd continued it's festivities. And then they pulled with one, and everyone knew it was just going to be another collapse by Florida. But the team couldn't pull it off. Can you imagine the disappointment of that sellout crowd? To put everything out there and get nothing in return?

That one stung, and continues to sting. Thus, it's going to take some time to put that kind of trust into the team again. They'll have to show us that they can win, and win consistently, something that just hasn't been there this year. It's hard to get excited for a game when you go into the stands with basically a flip of the coin.

Look at Bruin fans. Reading through their GDTs, even when the score was tied this past game, they had complete confidence that their team was going to win. I haven't felt that kind of confidence in the Canes since last year. Even on bottom feeding teams, teams we SHOULD beat, it's always a struggle.

As for excitement during the actual game, the same thing applies. We're on the powerplay, and a Canes player is rushing up the ice. The crowd roars, and the player dumps it into the zone, where it's promptly cleared out. They chase the puck back down, and rush up the ice again. The crowd roars again, only to be silenced as they once again dump it into the zone and get it cleared out. How excited do you think the crowd will be when the player inevitably rushes up the ice again? There's only so many times you can do something and have it not work before Canes fans say "Hey, we've seen this film before and we know the ending".

Now, there was some real excitement during the Bruins game. Whenever the team had a strong shift, the crowd let them know it. When they finished the first leading and ended it with a strong offensive push, the crowd cheered as they went into the locker room. When they finished the 2nd, tied against the best team in the conference, the crowd gave them a standing ovation. And we all know how that game worked out. Disappointed, once again.

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its hard for a fanbase to get excited about a team that is beyond inconsistent, we never know what team will show up from game to game, they rarely score the first goal to get the crowd buzzing and when they do get a lead we all wonder when the mistake will be made to let the other team back in the game. If they want good attendance and some noise in the building then they need to put more than a 2 game win streak together with some high scoring, dominant wins.

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I think there are some good points here by everyone. I will say that I agree with Frog. We are tired of seeing a team lose by making the same mistakes. The negativity comes from the fans seeing exactly what is going on and has gone on for a very long time. When Brindy went down last season our team turned around and if you were paying attention the fans were very excited, supportive as well as the posts.

As far as what's going on we don't see or know? If you are the Owner, GM or coach then it is your responsibility to express what is really going on to the fans especially when it is happening over and over and over and over and over. Repeating the same mistake without explaination will get you negative responses. Fans invest time and money and should receive a report like a public company gives its share holders. This report would explain their reason for why we are losing and what they plan to do about it. We receive a report and it sheds some light on the areas in which we are concerned about and what is expected to happen.

A job brings responsibility. JR shouldn't keep Brind'Amour out on the ice (20+ minutes a game) with a big salary making horrible mistakes because he doesn't feel others aren't adequate or healthy enough!!! If that is the case then we saw last year what happened when we worked around his injury. Why can we not do it again? I would much rather see Sutter on the 2nd line giving it everything he has. He wants the opportunity and will make mistakes but will grow as a player and to me that is positive. Using Cullen's time to heal as an excuse isn't good enough either. It isn't good for the team and it isn't good for Brind'Amour to keep him out there regardless if he ranks second in assists and second with TOI. Our teams statistics are not that great if you compare them to others.

If you ask me the problem of demotion or release revolves around the mistakes JR made when he resigned him to a ludacris contract. JR made a mistake but is hoping Brindy gets back on his game and will give him the time necessary to do so. Francis is partial to Brind'Amour as a friend and through his own experience. Everyone in the NHL respects him so its hard to make a change. We are in the midst of a losing season. JR fired Lavi 25 games into the season and instead of shocking the team with new style, face and personality he brings back a coach everyone is familiar with. Smart move if you ask me but it didn't solve the entire problem nor did it bring the response we were needing. Now all fingers point to Brind'Amour.

As far as support and being negative fans......since when did the players start playing in the stands? The game is won on the ice and from what I know cheerleaders and fan support doesn't win the CUP!!!!

We do a great job supporting the Canes and if we truly didn't care then we wouldn't be on this board.

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I believe for a lot of us, it's hard to get excited about the team, to show real support, because too often they've let us down.

You want a situation where all the fan support in the world couldn't change the game? Try the last game of last season. What a heartbreaker that was. Sellout crowd, pumped up, screaming, chanting, doing all the right things. Because after all, they win and it's the playoffs. And it's Florida, a team that hadn't beaten us in the RBC since dinosaurs roamed the earth.

And even when the team went down early, and went down by a lot, the crowd continued it's festivities. And then they pulled with one, and everyone knew it was just going to be another collapse by Florida. But the team couldn't pull it off. Can you imagine the disappointment of that sellout crowd? To put everything out there and get nothing in return?

That one stung, and continues to sting. Thus, it's going to take some time to put that kind of trust into the team again. They'll have to show us that they can win, and win consistently, something that just hasn't been there this year. It's hard to get excited for a game when you go into the stands with basically a flip of the coin.

Look at Bruin fans. Reading through their GDTs, even when the score was tied this past game, they had complete confidence that their team was going to win. I haven't felt that kind of confidence in the Canes since last year. Even on bottom feeding teams, teams we SHOULD beat, it's always a struggle.

As for excitement during the actual game, the same thing applies. We're on the powerplay, and a Canes player is rushing up the ice. The crowd roars, and the player dumps it into the zone, where it's promptly cleared out. They chase the puck back down, and rush up the ice again. The crowd roars again, only to be silenced as they once again dump it into the zone and get it cleared out. How excited do you think the crowd will be when the player inevitably rushes up the ice again? There's only so many times you can do something and have it not work before Canes fans say "Hey, we've seen this film before and we know the ending".

Now, there was some real excitement during the Bruins game. Whenever the team had a strong shift, the crowd let them know it. When they finished the first leading and ended it with a strong offensive push, the crowd cheered as they went into the locker room. When they finished the 2nd, tied against the best team in the conference, the crowd gave them a standing ovation. And we all know how that game worked out. Disappointed, once again.

What painful memories...but absolute truth. You describe the feelings perfectly...just an excellent summary Frog.

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I have jump in here because it seemed to be a good time to try to figure out how to do that thing where you respond to each paragraph separately. I am going to try to do that, because trying to follow this whole thing is a bit tough. I also wanted to see how many words can be put into a single post.

Have you been to the RBC lately to watch a game? [/b] Have you noticed how dead it is? Do you think our players have much of a home ice advantage past the substitution privilege? A couple of times Saturday night we stood and cheered the Canes after a strong shift. The Jumbotron is appealing for noise and we are patiently waiting for the Canes to prove us right in our opinions as to why we are not winning more than we are. Did you hear the crowd in Montreal? Have you heard anybody call the Canes fans the loudest, best fans in the NHL lately? Or the RBC a tough place to play? Are we waiting until the Canes don't need us to support them?[/i]

I have been to many games this year. The crowd generally responds very well. Yes, we are quiet when the team is not playing well, and even boo when the powerplay is particularly inept (not when it is at the normal ineptness, only when it has been inept for a long time and then can

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It is 12am and I can't sleep because I had this crazy nightmare about some guy beating me with a stick trying to get a poisonous lizard out of my stomach. So I get up and grab a glass a water and hop online. After I read Remkin's post I laughed so hard water came out of my nose. Great post!

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The building won't be full in a market like Raleigh unless the team is winning more often. This is now the third straight season of inconsistant hockey and I think the fans have decided to spend the time and money on other things. It happens to most markets that attendance in interest drops when the team is not playoff bound with your few exceptions.

The building was loud when the stakes were high, but I would not by any means call the Canes fans the best in the league, and that is no knock on us. It is like calling the penguins fans the best in the league when the year before the lockout they hardly drew 10,000 a game. No the bandwagon is so full it is sickening.

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Do we risk offending Caniacs from Lizard Lick, NC? With an appeal for unity and blind faith cheering we should be more politically correct ;)

I'm with Remkin and Frog (Post No. 4). I believe my eyes and not what is said (or posted).

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I think that the fans that liked Lavie are just really pist off at JR.

and then you have the fans who don't care about what happens they just like the team.

But I have not been going to any games after Lavie got fired but My friends have said that it has been quite. there is not of yelling and cherring. only when the canes score.

I have to say that after this year the team will never be the same with all the trades and fireing of staff.. :(

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I think that the fans that liked Lavie are just really pist off at JR.

and then you have the fans who don't care about what happens they just like the team.

But I have not been going to any games after Lavie got fired but My friends have said that it has been quite. there is not of yelling and cherring. only when the canes score.

I have to say that after this year the team will never be the same with all the trades and fireing of staff.. :(

This team will (probably) never see another great season like the one we had in the '05-'06 year. I don't get as excited anymore because I've witnessed the triumph of winning and the failures of this team losing. I'm personally glad Lavi has moved on, though I don't have anything against him, he's a great coach.. but, I felt that it was time for a change just like JR did. As long as this the owner isn't willing to go outside the box and spend a little more.. this team will forever be a mid-conference team ( 9th-11th best in the east). Mediocrity is this teams middle name. So on with the firings, get us some great draft picks, make those trades, and for (Pete's) sake, spend just a little more on your hockey team!!! Winning will fill the seats and bring back the RBC faithful (and the consistent cheering). Until of the any of this happens, I will continue to be just another naysayer! I hate paying to see inconsistency, it's money down the drain!

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A huge factor regarding a club's attendance depends on how badly the economy has hurt its fan base. I'll discuss that in a moment.

... this team will forever be a mid-conference team ( 9th-11th best in the east).

Diehard fans of one of my two local NHL clubs, the Los Angeles Kings, are delighted whenever their club has found its way into the 10th spot in the Western Conference this year. Remember that because this team has been deep in the conference's cellar the last several years, it's showing steady, noticeable improvement this season, even while it drops to 13th for a day or two.

... Winning will fill the seats ...

Wish I could say that a winning club fills the arena, behold, but if fans have lost their jobs thanks to a horrid economy that's only getting worse, their local team could lead the conference by 10 points and be lucky to draw 12K a game. Although the Ducks -- my other local NHL organization -- are solidly in sixth in the WC, attendance is suffering badly because the economy has hammered Orange, Riverside, and San Bernardino counties big time.

... it's money down the drain!

Ah, to be able to have discretionary money to attend a game. Those were the days, my friends ...

Jan/GSBG

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This team will (probably) never see another great season like the one we had in the '05-'06 year. I don't get as excited anymore because I've witnessed the triumph of winning and the failures of this team losing. I'm personally glad Lavi has moved on, though I don't have anything against him, he's a great coach.. but, I felt that it was time for a change just like JR did. As long as this the owner isn't willing to go outside the box and spend a little more.. this team will forever be a mid-conference team ( 9th-11th best in the east). Mediocrity is this teams middle name. So on with the firings, get us some great draft picks, make those trades, and for (Pete's) sake, spend just a little more on your hockey team!!! Winning will fill the seats and bring back the RBC faithful (and the consistent cheering). Until of the any of this happens, I will continue to be just another naysayer! I hate paying to see inconsistency, it's money down the drain!

Right there with you "behold." Agree with the coaching moves, but the team is a mediocre bunch. Paying for inconsistency that we already know will let us down (see April 4, 2008) just *edits*.

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I will have to say that I was on my way to the RBC Center on Saturday and at the last minute decided not to go. I am sure I could have walked up an got a ticket but was also wanting the outcome not be a bummer. And it was...

I will still go to the games I have seats for but I think I will be less likely to just jump up and go like I have in the past.

Why, Well the team is not winning or playing consistent and $$$ are tight...

And the Sobe lizard thing... Too weird...

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..... I am sure I could have walked up an got a ticket but was also wanting the outcome not be a bummer. And it was...

That night tickets were in demand. There were more buyers than sellers in the usual selling/buying spot. Maybe since no TV game, or the Holiday. Anyway, good call as a buyer. I felt it was one of the better games of the year, despite the outcome (a real downer).

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Given the history of the Whalers/Canes franchise ,I believe they have been a mediocre team at best. Outside of the two cup runs, they never made it to the Conference Finals. I know hockey is a business but it would seem an onwer would do all within his pocketbook to field a team that would be competitive and draw fans.

Right now, this team is not competitive and is drawing only die-hard hockey fans. New fans will come only win the team is winning. What is frustating is this is the third consecutive year of mediocre hockey and the fan base is not solid enough for this pattern to continue.

If Canes' management were to come forward and announce they were shifiting into a rebuilding mode, shed most of the high-priced veteran, and bring in a pack of River Rats who play every shift as if they give a damn, fans will come. Right now it seems the Canes are just PK's very expensive playtoy.

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Right now, this team is not competitive and is drawing only die-hard hockey fans. New fans will come only win the team is winning. What is frustating is this is the third consecutive year of mediocre hockey and the fan base is not solid enough for this pattern to continue.

Dead on! Now if only PK or JR get the message...if they don't I'm sure they will hear the dwindling attendance and chirping in the stands...average attendance for 2007-8 after 19 home games 16,300... this season, 14,977. That's a big drop even with the economy.

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Economy? Please would people stop blaming the economy for everything? Its called taking accountability for your own failures. GM blames the economy for their failures when actually its their own fault for not listening to what the consumers want. Instead they continued to make ugly vehicles at a high cost that won't last. The Canes management needs to take accountability for their low attendance and understand that a big change is needed. If not then attendance will keep falling and money will be lost. Besides the corporations in RTP are diverse within several industries unlike Charlotte which harbors the headquarters of several major banks. Not to mention that historically during difficult financial times professional sports do well because it helps people take their minds off whats going on in the world.

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Economy? Please would people stop blaming the economy for everything? Its called taking accountability for your own failures. GM blames the economy for their failures when actually its their own fault for not listening to what the consumers want. Instead they continued to make ugly vehicles at a high cost that won't last. The Canes management needs to take accountability for their low attendance and understand that a big change is needed. If not then attendance will keep falling and money will be lost. Besides the corporations in RTP are diverse within several industries unlike Charlotte which harbors the headquarters of several major banks. Not to mention that historically during difficult financial times professional sports do well because it helps people take their minds off whats going on in the world.

That was my point, that the drop in attendance is too great to be simply passed off as the economy as management might like to imagine. The problem is a subpar team that hasn't made the playoffs in years that has eroded its fan base to die hard hockey fans who are losing faith in and enthusiasm for the team with each passing week of inconsistent play. I hope that mgmt and ownership work to turn things around sooner rather than later whether by bringing players in or going through rebuilding...just take an approach that can bring energy back into the RBC both in the stands and on the ice!

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NHL attendance is similar to MLB attendance, theres a lot of games and if the team is average, attendance for the most part is average. The goal should be to stay competitive and hope you can get about 16,000 a game any given year. The Canes screwed up because they got a lot more STH's after the cup run due to people having to buy tickets for the following year to get playoff tix. If they made the playoffs the last 2 years the same thing would have happened and they could have potentially had close to all the tix sold for the following regular season. PK knew the last couple of seasons was the franchises chance to build a consistent fanbase and they failed.

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Hockey is a great sport but it needs to be marketed to build a solid fan base. HD will help with the television aspect of the game, but people need to be given a reason to come out to the arena. Mangement cannot say "we will be fielding a team that will competive for the cup" and fail to deliver on that promise.

If management where to say "we are building for the future" and then fields a fiesty team that may lose games, will not go down without a fight. If maangement could see that the concession stands had "value deals" it would lessen the impact on the fan's wallet.

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Hockey is a great sport but it needs to be marketed to build a solid fan base. HD will help with the television aspect of the game, but people need to be given a reason to come out to the arena. Mangement cannot say "we will be fielding a team that will competive for the cup" and fail to deliver on that promise.

If management where to say "we are building for the future" and then fields a fiesty team that may lose games, will not go down without a fight. If maangement could see that the concession stands had "value deals" it would lessen the impact on the fan's wallet.

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Hockey is a great sport but it needs to be marketed to build a solid fan base. HD will help with the television aspect of the game, but people need to be given a reason to come out to the arena. Mangement cannot say "we will be fielding a team that will competive for the cup" and fail to deliver on that promise.

If management where to say "we are building for the future" and then fields a fiesty team that may lose games, will not go down without a fight. If maangement could see that the concession stands had "value deals" it would lessen the impact on the fan's wallet.

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