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top-shelf-1

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It makes me sad, but I don't see how he has any trade value with his current physical condition. Obviously if he were playing up to his old form he would be a good deal and worth keeping as well. Its the same old Catch 22 when discussing trading away problems. If they were worth the money, you wouldn't want to trade them.

Lets pretend he is healthy. His performance while healthy was inconsistent. Rod simply doesn't bring enough value to the table as a healthy player to justify the cost of his salary. Healthy or not. Time has past...move on.

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That's still three million dollars that could be spent elsewhere if Brind'Amour were dealt by the trade deadline.

Cap money isn't necessarily budget money. A retired players salary doesn't actually get paid but they eat up that much cap space. So if the Canes are going to 3 million or more shy of the cap it doesn't matter for the years two years he would be retired, if he chose to do so. Doesn't do anything about this year, which I know is your main concern, but if the Canes are going to remain more than 6 million under the cap like they are this year, his retirement wouldn't place any extra burdens on the self-imposed budget in the years to come.

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Lets pretend he is healthy. His performance while healthy was inconsistent. Rod simply doesn't bring enough value to the table as a healthy player to justify the cost of his salary. Healthy or not. Time has past...move on.

I disagree on one point, what you call his inconsistency while healthy. I realize you mean his performance since winning the Cup, but I think that's an important distinction. Winning the Cup extinguised the fire Roddy had for this franchise. He's a mission-oriented player, and he accomplished his mission here. If he is healthy, I think he could still have value, and could rekindle that flame with a team that is in the same position we were when he got here -- on the verge. I'm thinking Columbus or Phoenix or (much as I'd hate to see him in their sweater) even the Slugs. What team can't ALWAYS use a guy who's pretty much a lock to win faceoffs when you really need to get one?

But that's the main point for me. This team needs to rebuild, and they won't be able to fully get on with that while Roddy's here. I'd rather they miss the playoffs and get a higher draft pick than limp in just for the sake of limping in -- which, frankly, they aren't likely to do at this point anyway.

Get on the phone, JR.

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I really have no idea what if any deal could be made, but last year as with this year moving Brind'Amour would be addition by subtraction. It has gotten that bad.

Last year we were in a fluttering downward drift, clearly headed for somewhat better of a draft pick. That was with a pre-inury Brind'Amour. Everyone was screaming for something to be done. So, we traded Commodore and Stillman for Eaves and Corvo. No lasting effect of that move. Yes, Corvo makes a difference and factors in, but no major move up. Then Brind'Amour goes down and is in effect replaced by Keith Aucoin. We then go on an unholy tear and if Cam had shown up on the last game would have made the playoffs despite Washington going on an even unholier tear.

This year we get into the funk again, despite better goaltending and more scoring from the blueline, and what do we do? Fire the Stanley Cup winning coach. Fine, but what happens next is more .500 hockey. Maybe we haven't really solved the problem. The thing that has correlated with our best hockey post SC has been the absence of Brind'Amour.

Now, well over half way through the season, Rod Brind'Amour's +/- at -29 is still THE worst player in the league at any position. There are 813 players listed. Not a single one is worse: 813/813. If I were in the league I would rank the same as Brind'Amour. OK, I'm getting carried away. But folks it really is that simple. Move Brind'Amour no matter how.

Trade him for a conditional draft pick, with a range of last round to say 3rd round depending on how he plays. Whatever, just free up that -29. Then use his salary to pick up just about any center available before the deadline.

IF somehow Brind'Amour returned to form rapidly, he might be worth keeping on the 3rd line. But the problem is that the team either has rose colored glasses, doesn't want to move a popular player, or keeps thinking he will come around. I fear that they will wait all the way until impact with the ground.

If we end up in 9th position in the conference after not making this move.....well it won't be good.

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Hey Great Post! I have recently thought that Staal needs a superstar with him to set him up, or visa versa. Most players are like that, some arent, look at Kovalchuk, hes good on his own. We cant get mad at Staal for the season hes having, ya most nights it looks like hes not trying, and just "poking" at the opposition, instead of hitting him, but he needs someone to make plays with, or a power forward to open the ice for him. As for trades and signings, I want to see more youth, and more physical players. Dont hate me for saying this, but Williams, Walker, Cullen gotta go... I really like this Rodney kid, hes gonna be great!

I was going to start my own thread, but I'll build upon what TopShelf has already put forth...

Scientifically, if you were to just look at the task at hand, you need to assemble a team that performs better than the other teams, but with the same available resources, i.e. salary cap. for the Canes, its even harder, since our cap is less than the other teams in the league. (reference for those who want to know the cap situation: http://www.nhlnumbers.com/' target="_blank">NHL Salary Numbers[/post])

How do you do the impossible, i.e. make a better team with the identical (or less) resources than the other guys? Basically, you need to assemble combinations of players that are worth more than they are individually.

Now, addressing the point TopShelf made (mistakes)... There are guys on this team that don't fit the bill, and others that did fit the bill that are gone... I can't pretend to know everything about every player on this team, but let me give you some examples...

Fit the Bill: (Make others around them better)

Cory Stillman - of all the guys I can think of, this is the most glaring example. Here is a guy who was a linchpin of two separate cup runs on two separate teams, and look at Ottawa after he left there. He is a 3.5M dollar player, and he makes everyone around him better. He's an important part of why FLA is a serious threat to make the playoffs now. How could we not recognize how important he was and keep him? There is a serious value player.

Erik Cole - I just don't see how you can give Staal all of that money and then take away his synergistic partner. I know all about the arguments about why he was the obvious guy to trade last season. So what... In the end, the team needs guys like him if you are going to have Staal be effective. Cole opened up the ice for Staal... When they were both on the ice, it was tough to just focus on Staal. Now, Eric is smothered and far less effective.

Other like this on the team now: Williams, Whitney, Cullen, Gleason, Wallin

Brindy was that guy, and its not his fault, but his body has let him down. He's not that guy anymore. I know we all hope this changes, but the longer this goes on, the more obvious it is that its not going to happen.

Don't fit the bill (in fact, play hurts those around them)

Same old whipping boys... Kaberle, Eaves, others, I don't want to badmouth the marginal guys

Note Staal is not on the list. I just don't see him as that guy who makes others around him better. They touted him as the next Ron Francis. Ron is the epitome of what I am talking about. He was the quintessential guy who could make others around him better. Staal has fallen far short of filling those big shoes (skates).

What to do? Too late to get Stillman back, he's signed for another year. Can get Cole back next year, I would do it. And look for other guys around the league like this, you know they are out there. I would not get rid of Whitney, Cullen, Williams...

Roddy, sorry to see you retire, but it's time.

Finally, make way for youth. If you must trade one of the untradeable I list, make sure you get prospects or picks. We aren't probably going to get Cole, so who is going to be "that guy", Staal's bud. Every great player has a sidekick. Without his sidekick, he's shut down. If you doubt it, look around the league, there's a heckuva lot of pairs out there. Staal needs his sidekick.

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I think one of our mistakes has been with Cullen. Management has never let the guy play or show that they have confidence in his ability. I think he has a lot of ability and can be our driving force to making the play-offs.

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We aren't probably going to get Cole, so who is going to be "that guy", Staal's bud. Every great player has a sidekick. Without his sidekick, he's shut down. If you doubt it, look around the league, there's a heckuva lot of pairs out there. Staal needs his sidekick.

I think the whole sidekick thing, or at least the notion that we have to go out and find one for Staal, is a crummy excuse for his play at best, a lot of malarkey at worst. It doesn't jibe with the fact that Staal was dominant in the second half of last season, and it ignores an even bigger point: We have more than enough talent and diverse styles of play already on this team that somebody can be found who would sufficiently compliment Staal. Williams, Whitney, Walker, LaRose, Sammy, etc. You're not just going to go out and find somebody whose style or abilities is (1) all that different from any of these guys or (2) readily available, even if you wanted one of them.

It's time for E. Staal's apologists to stop looking outside of Eric and start putting the responsibility for his play on his own shoulders.

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I think the whole sidekick thing, or at least the notion that we have to go out and find one for Staal, is a crummy excuse for his play at best, a lot of malarkey at worst. It doesn't jibe with the fact that Staal was dominant in the second half of last season, and it ignores an even bigger point: We have more than enough talent and diverse styles of play already on this team that somebody can be found who would sufficiently compliment Staal. Williams, Whitney, Walker, LaRose, Sammy, etc. You're not just going to go out and find somebody whose style or abilities is (1) all that different from any of these guys or (2) readily available, even if you wanted one of them.

It's time for E. Staal's apologists to stop looking outside of Eric and start putting the responsibility for his play on his own shoulders.

Why should there be a apology for Staals play? I know he hasn't achieved the point total this year we all like but he still will be a 30 goal scorer that plays against the top line every night. He is now on the penalty kill, it's funny now how that's improved.

All people are saying is that every player that's putting up great numbers has a great player playing with them.

He leads our team in pp goals, shots, goals, plus/minus, game winning goals. Even though he isn't having his best offensive year he has made great strides on the defensive end. There is nothing to apologies about.

You might want to pick another player to point the finger at because your same old same old "he is no leader" or "he isn't the player like Allen Iverson " is getting old.

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Why should there be a apology for Staals play? I know he hasn't achieved the point total this year we all like but he still will be a 30 goal scorer that plays against the top line every night. He is now on the penalty kill, it's funny now how that's improved.

It is not the stats that is the issue. It is the fact the we the fans are spending our hard earned money watching this guy making 7-8 million dollars a season and he shows acceptable effort what, every 3 or 4 games. Hell some times week pass and you don't even notice him.

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The thing about Staal is that he shows flashes of sheer brilliance, then fades away for what seem like long stretches. On balance he is still our best player, and an all-star, but there have been those periods where he is dominant almost like a top 5 superstar, and it just seems like he could find that level just a little more consistantly. He still may and even if he doesn't he is not the problem on this team. That would be, well read any of my last 20 posts.

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I think Brindys game has improved with the reduced minutes and taking him off the PK. The PK is clicking with LaRose and Cullen scoring shortys. Staal is part of that improved PK. Our goaltending has been very solid. Just wanted to mention some of the positives. :)

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Why should there be a apology for Staals play? I know he hasn't achieved the point total this year we all like but he still will be a 30 goal scorer that plays against the top line every night. He is now on the penalty kill, it's funny now how that's improved.

All people are saying is that every player that's putting up great numbers has a great player playing with them.

He leads our team in pp goals, shots, goals, plus/minus, game winning goals. Even though he isn't having his best offensive year he has made great strides on the defensive end. There is nothing to apologies about.

You might want to pick another player to point the finger at because your same old same old "he is no leader" or "he isn't the player like Allen Iverson " is getting old.

Once again Kernersville, your ability to miss the big picture whilst holding on to stuff you need to just get over continues to amaze. You ask why anybody should apologize for Staal and immediately begin doing just that: "I know he hasn't achieved the point total this year we all like BUT..."

Justify all you want, but the numbers don't lie. Our 8-million-dollar man has 36 points on the year, good for 70th in the league. He needs to either buck up or spend some time in the press box.

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Once again Kernersville, your ability to miss the big picture whilst holding on to stuff you need to just get over continues to amaze. You ask why anybody should apologize for Staal and immediately begin doing just that: "I know he hasn't achieved the point total this year we all like BUT..."

Justify all you want, but the numbers don't lie. Our 8-million-dollar man has 36 points on the year, good for 70th in the league. He needs to either buck up or spend some time in the press box.

Then we would really get our moneys worth out of him....sit him...that'll work.

If people want to talk about not getting the money we pay players out of them. Lets talk about the guys who "just can't seem to stay healthy". While I realize that it is not their fault they got hurt. I do not understand paying a player like Scott Walker $2.5 Million and he has only played in 34 out of 51 games? That's only 66% of our games, which is also his career average and I've included when he gets sent to the AHL, which has not happened to Staal since her broke into the NHL. Assuming he continues that streak when he comes back we will have paid him a little more than $46,000 per game played. Call it what you want I am not picking on Walker, just using him as a example.

Lets also assume that Staal is going to continue what he has done this year and years past by playing in all 82 games. We pay him $60,000 per game.

If certain STHs want to be pissed at anyone for not "getting what they've paid for" then they need to be upset with players who can't seem to stay healthy as well as the ones who are not "producing like we expect them to".

If these salaries are wrong let me know... http://www.sportscity.com/NHL/Carolina-Hurricanes-Salaries' target="_blank">Hurricanes Salaries[/post]

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Then we would really get our moneys worth out of him....sit him...that'll work.

So if I'm understanding you Cardiac, it's more important to stay healthy and underperform than to play like you should and risk injury?? If that were true, hockey would be badminton and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I look at it this way: Everything else has been tried. We've gone out and gotten for Staal perfectly capable help in the person of Samsonov. No good. We've fired the coach. Nothing doing. So the question has to become, AT WHAT POINT do you say, "Eric, I'm sitting your sorry butt down in hopes it'll prove that nobody on this team is above disciplinary action when they merely lace 'em up and go through the motions -- no matter how much money they're making."

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So if I'm understanding you Cardiac, it's more important to stay healthy and underperform than to play like you should and risk injury?? If that were true, hockey would be badminton and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I look at it this way: Everything else has been tried. We've gone out and gotten for Staal perfectly capable help in the person of Samsonov. No good. We've fired the coach. Nothing doing. So the question has to become, AT WHAT POINT do you say, "Eric, I'm sitting your sorry butt down in hopes it'll prove that nobody on this team is above disciplinary action when they merely lace 'em up and go through the motions -- no matter how much money they're making."

I would like to see guys play like they should and not get hurt or man up like Staal did and play through it. I would also rather not let injury prone guys hang around and pay them for sitting.

off the top of my head..

May be there should be a set number of "sick day" games they can take off. Once they go beyond their games allowed to be hurt(or whatever you want to call it) they take games off unpaid. How many of us would keep our jobs if we constantly called in sick; which is essentially what these guys do when they don't play because they are hurt.

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