Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
TSA

With the Captain out of the line up, questions about how to move forward arise

Recommended Posts

this is a tough call for canes management.. i think roddy been hurt a while, and was trying to play through it.. let him heal, the ole saying u cant please them by appeasing them applys, because hes rod and what hes done for the organization... if his skills are diminished, he just cant play the minutes he was.. pure and simple.. have to leave sentiment out, as hard as that is..dinz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He has given a lot to this organization since he was picked up in a trade in 2000, so I believe he is due some respect from the

organization for all that he has done.

This is where and why this question is touchy. Where is it that the organization extending respect shifts over to Rod being (unintentionally) selfish? We know that he has drive that has served him and the team very well. When is it that the drive turns into a detriment because he cannot admit that it is no longer bringing on ice productivity? We have all seen this with athletes across professional sports where they hang on too long and it hurts their team. I am not saying that Rod is at that point, when he can play 100% he may very well be an integral part of the team, but he may also be a personality that has a very tough time knowing when to hang up the skates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting post.

I think the Canes did the only thing that could be done at the time by sitting him down due to injury. Maybe it was worse, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but Brindy certainly wasn't making strides with his play this year. The only way to see what will happen is to do what they did. Was the Jokinen trade in the works before this happened? It certainly is convienient that it worked out that way. This team was not going to go far (or even make the playoffs) the way it was configured. This may be the change needed to make it work.

Brindy has been incredible as a Hurricane and we all owe him big for what he has done. The picture of him hoisting the Cup will forever hang on my wall and inside my head. That is my Brindy. I/we can not begin to show him the respect he is due, BUT, that is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. The transition has to be handled gently. I would continue to sit him for a while and give him time to heal. If the play of the team continues as it has shown the last couple of games, he can't return unless there is a big change in his health. I know it sounds harsh, but management owes it to the team, the players, and us as fans to put the players on the ice that give us the best chance to win. If it plays out this way, management needs to be very honest with Brindy and let Brindy make the call on a trade/retirement/being scratched/IR or whatever.

Whatever is done short of letting Brindy play it out on the ice is going to be difficult due to what his contribution to this team has been. I honestly feel, or hope, that Brindy will do what's best in the end. If management has to do the unthinkable, well, it's a business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, Jerry Rice came back before scheduled from an ACL tear/repair years ago. He has a few good years after that, if I'm not mistaken.

Different surgeons have different techniques, and if I ever need a total knee replacement when my left knee goes, I'm flying to wherever Dr. Thomas Vail is to have him do my knee.

Now, both BrindAmour and Borer had ACL surgery from whomever down here, can't remember his name. Both are struggling. Is is something inherent with each players knees, or is it something about the surgical technique? I don't know. I also don't know if Justin had the same surgeon.

(actor- Kevin Pollack doing Christopher Walkin impersonation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQZ_GKN9Ufw...eature=related)

One of my all time favs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the fundamental question for now is this: is one guy, even a decorated hero, worth more than the team and the team's aspirations for THIS season? Up unitl now it seemed the answer was yes, in fact Rod Brind'Amour's goodwill is worth more that the rest of the team and the outcome of this season. I contend that this has had a profound effect on the entire team, especially since Rod is the Captain. I also think it has an even bigger affect on Eric Staal. This is speculation, but it is also observation of the past year and a half.

I am optimistic about our chances for the playoffs because after the Vancouver loss the decision was made that the team was more important, and the team reacted like they got a shot of adrenaline.

For this reason, the Canes cannot put Rod back in any time soon without severely disrupting the team and risking our chance at the playoffs. For one thing, there is no way to know if Rod is better other than to play him, and that sends the wrong message to the team: "Hey guys, we were just kidding, the team is not as important as Rod Brind'Amour." They must find ways to stretch his recovery out for at least the rest of this month. Then it will depend on how the team does.

If the team continues to struggle and drops back, then they will either need to try to make a desperation predeadline move, or just ride it out. If they decide to ride it down to the higher draft pick, at that point putting Rod back in would be fine.

If the team goes on the tear that I (and others) predict, it will be hard to put him back in. If we go on a gonzo tear and clinch a playoff spot, we could try him back in there, but would you really want to mess with that chemistry if that happened?

I still would not rule out the possibility that the team goes on a tear, but is still lacking a good 3rd line center (we shall see with Jokinen) and may need to decide: put Rod back in, or trade for another center.

If I were in charge I would try to find a way to gracefully keep Rod out for the year rehabbing. Let him keep the C, who cares? Then watch Jokinen to see if he can be that 3rd line center. If he comes on, we stand pat. If he continues to struggle, find a renta-center for the playoffs. Then Rod can give it one last chance fully healed next year.

Alternatively, once Rod takes stock of the situation he may actually be ok with a trade. Many veterans end up playing a couple of years at the end with other teams. Even team Icons: Farve, Montanna, Gretsky, Borque, and many many more. Unlike others, I would not see him going as a rental to a playoff team, but as a presence on a rebuilding team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as the decision making for JR, PM, and RF I think the following steps would be fitting:

1. Evaluate the current injury that had him sent home from Vancouver. Is it knee related or some other part of the body? What is the typcial recovery time for the injury? Are we seeing progress in therapy?

2. Meeting with Rod to discuss the current injury, knee, and results over the season. Rod knows he is the elephant in the room. It is time for coaches , Rod, and management to have an in depth review to clear the air for the objectives moving forward. Discuss current injury recovery progress, the knee, if he feels more productive with reduced ice time this season, and finally what are his short/long term goals given the challenges he has faced this year. He may very well be considering hanging them up and its important for the staff to know.

3. Analyze the data from your meeting and injury update. Discuss the options. Reduced ice time, rest for period of time, hang it up for the year, retirement, or trade.

4. Loyalty but not paralysis. At this point in the season make a decision on Rod's situation and clearly communicate to him on the role he is to take moving forward. No wavering and make sure he adjusts to the decision. This does not involve a "C" discussion. It is his till he decides to move on.

Without having the knowledge of the latest injury personally I believe the rest and reduced ice time will return a more productive Brindy. We have seen some flashes of it this season. Make sure the rest is more than enough though before he even attempts the comeback. We are going to need his experience in the playoffs this year unless there is a trade to get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ultimately, it's up to Brindamour and Brindamour alone. He's been in this organization long enough to have his word mean more to the team and to the fans than the management's word, and the management knows this.

No offense but thats a pretty scary statement. I feel the same about what Brind'Amour means here as you do but this is a business first and one that should be committed to winning by putting the best product on the ice it can. If the players make their all their own decisions and their word is more important than the management's, who's running the business?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I thought Justin had knee surgery last season? He had the achilles rupture this pre season around the same time Brind'Amour had his clean out, thats why I compared them. Coming back from a full tendon rupture is a lot harder than a clean out and both were coming off of major knee repairs.

You and Ivyleager make good points about other teams that have changed Captains and I think in the off season, it can be done respectfully if thats what is decided is the best course of action. Maybe someone else does but I dont know f any cases where the Captain had his C removed during the season though. Seems to me that would be pretty demoralizing unless its because of injury or he chooses it for himself.

Good responses so far.

That's right. I forgot about his knee injury. But he didn't have to have a second procedure right before the season started, though he did have to endure the Achilles tendon issue.

I think Lecavalier had his removed after the season started a while back, but not this late in the season. IF the "C" is removed, it should be done during the off-season or at the beginning of next.

Should NOT be done before this season is over unless it is by choice or as TSA said, because of injury.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO he should be only brought back if the training staff gives him the o.k. and the coaching staff determines by how he looks in practices he is ready. It is obvious he came back too soon after his second surgery and played at well less than 100%. I'd admire his guts and work ethic but the coaching staff should have pulled him off the ice well before now. When he is ready to play he should start on the 4th line and earn his minutes. Get well Roddy and then we'll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No offense but thats a pretty scary statement. I feel the same about what Brind'Amour means here as you do but this is a business first and one that should be committed to winning by putting the best product on the ice it can. If the players make their all their own decisions and their word is more important than the management's, who's running the business?

But TSA its also a business that relies on fan loyalty. If fans feel that management throws Rod under the bus or the media portrays it that way, it could drive away casual fans whose entertainment dollars are stretched and don't necessarily pay attention to anything but headlines. Yes making the playoffs is also an imperative for keeping these fans, but if the team throws Rod under the bus and misses the playoffs there will be bigger losses than just one or the other.

Thats why I think the canes have to make sure that they come across as handling Rod with respect. Layout what they expect from him on the ice and what they will do if he doesn't meet those expectations and then let Rod make a decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But TSA its also a business that relies on fan loyalty. If fans feel that management throws Rod under the bus or the media portrays it that way, it could drive away casual fans whose entertainment dollars are stretched and don't necessarily pay attention to anything but headlines. Yes making the playoffs is also an imperative for keeping these fans, but if the team throws Rod under the bus and misses the playoffs there will be bigger losses than just one or the other.

Thats why I think the canes have to make sure that they come across as handling Rod with respect. Layout what they expect from him on the ice and what they will do if he doesn't meet those expectations and then let Rod make a decision.

I couldnt agree more, but to say that any player should have more say or importance than management is a head scratcher for sure. Im sure thats what Frogg meant and maybe I just read it wrong.

Even your idea on how to handle it puts management in control while keeping it respectful and letting Brind'Amour make his own career decisions. The key being that management is still running the business and is ultimately in charge of all decisons for the team. Its the "what will they do if he doesnt meet expectaions" part they've struggled with so far. Now they've made a move...it'll be interesting to see what happens next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ultimately, it's up to Brindamour and Brindamour alone. He's been in this organization long enough to have his word mean more to the team and to the fans than the management's word, and the management knows this.

Somehow I find that claim highly doubtful to absurd. If the Canes were a consistent top tier team under his leadership I could agree that he has a lot of pull but the way things have been going for him or the team, no way. And it's not a secret that the Canes have actually performed better when he wasn't in the lineup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But TSA its also a business that relies on fan loyalty. If fans feel that management throws Rod under the bus or the media portrays it that way, it could drive away casual fans whose entertainment dollars are stretched and don't necessarily pay attention to anything but headlines. Yes making the playoffs is also an imperative for keeping these fans, but if the team throws Rod under the bus and misses the playoffs there will be bigger losses than just one or the other.

Thats why I think the canes have to make sure that they come across as handling Rod with respect. Layout what they expect from him on the ice and what they will do if he doesn't meet those expectations and then let Rod make a decision.

My fan loyalty would be more affected if they didn't put the best possible product on the ice. Winning will ease a lot of bad feelings, but any change involving Brindy has to be handled with kid gloves.

My question to anyone that says it is Brindy's call to make is this....

How long do you let it go? The rest of this season, next season, the end of his contract? Not dealing with the problem now will only prolong the inevitable and result in poor play until.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My fan loyalty would be more affected if they didn't put the best possible product on the ice. Winning will ease a lot of bad feelings, but any change involving Brindy has to be handled with kid gloves.

My question to anyone that says it is Brindy's call to make is this....

How long do you let it go? The rest of this season, next season, the end of his contract? Not dealing with the problem now will only prolong the inevitable and result in poor play until.

This is the ultimate "rock and a hard place" situation. It shouldn't be allowed to stretch on and on because that's not good for him, the fans, or the team. But you can't force him into early retirement or anything like that. I think that the process has already begun with cutting TOI and him being sent home from the roadtrip. Regardless of the severity of his injury, it was a huge step to say that we need him at 100% and he's not there right now so he has to step back for a while. I have the feeling that he is well aware of the current situation and may have had more of a say in the early return home than we think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is the ultimate "rock and a hard place" situation. It shouldn't be allowed to stretch on and on because that's not good for him, the fans, or the team. But you can't force him into early retirement or anything like that. I think that the process has already begun with cutting TOI and him being sent home from the roadtrip. Regardless of the severity of his injury, it was a huge step to say that we need him at 100% and he's not there right now so he has to step back for a while. I have the feeling that he is well aware of the current situation and may have had more of a say in the early return home than we think.

hes been aware of the situation all year, he did an interview early in the year and was talking about his road back to recovery and how he was telling Lavi to give him more ice time and Lavi had to hold him back because he wasnt ready. Rod is going to push the issue and the coaches need to reel him in. Francis would be the best one to do this if he hasnt already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd hazard to guess that Rod's place on the PP was primarily to win the initial draw.

I just can't understand Brindy being on the PP.....that is about as pointless as a football bat!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd hazard to guess that Rod's place on the PP was primarily to win the initial draw.

Yeah, thats pretty much what I think. Not to mention earlier in the year, he had a bunch of goals that came from him being near the net and knocking a rebound in. IMO he still should be on the PP, but after he wins the faceoff he should just park himself in front of the net.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My fan loyalty would be more affected if they didn't put the best possible product on the ice. Winning will ease a lot of bad feelings, but any change involving Brindy has to be handled with kid gloves.

My question to anyone that says it is Brindy's call to make is this....

How long do you let it go? The rest of this season, next season, the end of his contract? Not dealing with the problem now will only prolong the inevitable and result in poor play until.

I agree. The time to address this is now. I would only hope that Rod himself has realized his play is below the caliber he expects from himself and has admitted it to management and has come to a mutual understanding with the team that it's time to look at alternatives. Maybe the move in Vancouver to come home and the Jokinen trade reflects this.....I don't know. However, as a fan, I expect management to put the best product on the ice, no matter the situation. As a fan, I deserve that. But to suggest it's Brindy's call to make seems irresponible to me. Any other player with the stats Rod has this year would not be in the lineup long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have the feeling that he is well aware of the current situation and may have had more of a say in the early return home than we think.

We may never know...but I'm guessing this is true. He knows that he is not playing as he has in the past and this was the time chosen in one behind the scenes way or another for him to step back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want a Class act form the Canes and let one of the Classiest guys in the NHL go out with his head high! (whenever that may be) I say let him get 100% and then some,, if,,, we make it to the playoffs he would be a asset to the team.

As far a the "C" goes keep "A" on the guys that have them. I don't think you have to have a "C" on any players Sweater.( I may be wrong on that)

That way if Roddy decides to go, he will retire as OUR CAPTAIN.(as it should be)

IMO i think the players already know what to do on the ice wothout Rod being there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For his years of dedication offer him the opprotunity to play the part of Stormy once he is healthy enough to rejoin the team.

Haha, I agree.

But seriously, I love the guy for all he has given to this team and he deserves a class exit. But I think we keep him out for a little while and if the team's energy continues to be high then Brindy shouldn't get any major time on anything above the 3rd line for the rest of the season. I'm assuming that he's not gonna be happy with "resting" the rest of the season, so its probably inevitable that he will be back later this season. I just hope his role will be diminished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He knows that he is not playing as he has in the past and this was the time chosen in one behind the scenes way or another for him to step back.

I tend to agree with that scenario (although I believe he probably made the choice himself.) We know he can't be oblivious to the difference in how the team has played the different times when he has sat out.

TSA - excellent thread topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...