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ncz82

Brind'Amour currently the worst defensive player in the league

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No one doubts Brindy is a classy guy, a great player and our CAPTAIN. However, he has had an awful season. He and everyone else has acknoweldged that. Lets move on, hes out for a while, let the team move one, now we should move on.

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Still think this is a tactical injury. Allows #17 to depart with grace and start a rebuild. Love the guy, he's done a lot for the franchise and will be a "Hall of Famer", his best is way behind him after the injury, he's NOT coming back to form and HE KNOWS IT. This "injury" allows him to bow out with dignity and the franchise can move on. I will be at the ceremony to retire his number next season.

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Uggghhh... Enough already!

I rarely post here, but am on pretty much every day, and the incessant blame game is killing me!

The guy's coming off of a major injury and is having a reeeally bad season. We get it.

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Uggghhh... Enough already!

I rarely post here, but am on pretty much every day, and the incessant blame game is killing me!

The guy's coming off of a major injury and is having a reeeally bad season. We get it.

Yes, we get it, our incredulity stems from mgmt and coaches behaving as though they do not get it or see it.

He's on the fourth line for now. 6 minutes a night is probably feasible at this point and he won't be in too many difficult on ice situations. This set up may actually work well for everyone involved.

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Yes, we get it, our incredulity stems from mgmt and coaches behaving as though they do not get it or see it.

I hear what you are saying... However, I'm pretty sure that mgmt. does see it and does get it.

Don't you think that the team management and coaching staff know a lot more about what's really going on with Roddy than we do? We as fans are rarely privy to the whole story when it comes to these things.

Besides, after the way that PK threw Lavi under the bus the way he did (saying that he didn't like him and that he lost him millions of dollars, etc.), I don't know why some folks think that he's going to stand by and watch his GM and current coaching staff miss the playoffs and lose him millions more just to keep Rod in the game if that's not where he should be.

Just my $.02...

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This other thread refers to what I think about this situation. He will see less minutes by going to the fourth line and we will have a decent fourth line in return. Could be the best for everyone concerned.

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This other thread refers to what I think about this situation. He will see less minutes by going to the fourth line and we will have a decent fourth line in return. Could be the best for everyone concerned.

Can't agree or disagree with your comment until I see which Rod shows up at the Thursday night game vs Florida. I would like you to be right !

But if it's like his last game, with a 3 of 14 FO success, another minus 1, and playing about 2 steps behind or a split second late then his 6 minutes could be like powerplay time for Florida.

Again, I hope you're right, but I'm worried that just a few days rest has fixed much, until I see reality Thursday.

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I think the 4th line is a great place for Rod right now. Nobody knows what he will or can bring at this point. If he plays better he can be moved up on the lines if necessary. If he still seems a step slow I say leave him on the 4th line. We will see starting Thursday. This is a huge game for us. The Panthers still have 1 or 2 games in hand. We need the 2 points in regulation against the Panthers.

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Where are the Brindy haters now? Three good games for him in a row. Wouldnt it be nice if he has turned the corner cuz he isnt going away and we'll need him down the stretch. Better to be wrong about him and have him play well than to have to be right about all the complaints about him.

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Where are the Brindy haters now? Three good games for him in a row. Wouldnt it be nice if he has turned the corner cuz he isnt going away and we'll need him down the stretch. Better to be wrong about him and have him play well than to have to be right about all the complaints about him.

First off, why is it that anyone who has a real, but negative assessment of someone is labeled a "hater". Kind of weakens the position to start out by name calling. I am in the camp that feels that Brind'Amour has hurt the team this year and hurt it bad. I have read nearly every post of those who agree with me and to a person I have never read anything hateful. Almost everyone who can see what is going on has a tremendous amount of respect and goodwill to Brind'Amour and what he has done for this franchise.

I must admit that due to travel I missed the last two games. It sounds like Brind'Amour has played better. As a fan of the team and as someone who wishes to have our pre-07 captain back this is great news. I remain concerned however, very concerned.

My concern is this: the team's response to Brind'Amour. I have no inside information at all and it is speculation based on observing this team closely over the last few years. The team seems to play worse on average when Brind'Amour is around. Setting aside last year, this year the team was reeling after the Vancouver choke. They sent Brind'Amour home and the team surged for a very unlikely win vs. SanJose and a rare blowout vs. Phoenix. It was not clear how long Brind'Amour would be out, but is seemed like it might be protracted. Then he is suddenly inserted back in, abeit with 4th line minutes. I was at that Florida game. NOT the same team that had emerged just a game prior. Then vs. Columbus, I didn't see it, but did see the final score. I guess we looked ok last night.

Still the combined goal differential with Brindy back 4-10. His first two games 1-10. Was he directly responsible? Not even possible. But what if the entire team let down because they realised that his absence was just a 2 game stunt? Could it be? I think so. This doesn't mean the team won't have good games with Brind'Amour around, last night was an example. Just that they will on balance have just as many head-scratchingly bad games as well.

My other fear with Brind'Amour on the 4th line is that his minutes would quickly go right back up. His last three games time on ice: 14, 16, 19 minutes. Not really 4th line minutes. If I am right, the rest of the team will silently realize that it will be more of the same. I don't know why this is, but I think that it is. Trading Stillman, Commodore, Cole, etc and firing the coach made no difference. Yet losing the captain has correlated with suddenly better play by the team at least twice and getting him back led to two terrible outings in a row.

What to do is a tough question, this is why I am cautiously pessimistic. I think that the time to make the move was when they sent him back. They should have held him out longer than two games. What was the hurry? It's not like they were missing that much. Why rush him back in? The team seemed to respond to his abscence, couldn't he have rested a few more games? Other guys have been out huge stretches.

I'm glad he seems to be playing better, and I hope I am wrong about all of this, for I don't hate Brind'Amour, but I am a fan of the TEAM. The effect on the team is there. This is the month to make a move on the playoffs, this is our softest month of the year. If we go .500 or less, we are in trouble. We are currenlty .500 for the month, and tomorrow will be a tough W.

There is one possible solution. I don't know if it would work. And I really doubt it would ever happen. But if Brind'Amour quietly gave the "C" to another player and assumed a quiet role player role, and if his game has improved, he could contribute while removing the team's focus on him as THE leader.

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There is one possible solution. I don't know if it would work. And I really doubt it would ever happen. But if Brind'Amour quietly gave the "C" to another player and assumed a quiet role player role, and if his game has improved, he could contribute while removing the team's focus on him as THE leader.

I don't think there would be anything quiet about doing that...everyone on this board would know immediately, I can gaurantee John, Tripp and Chuck would say something about it and I am sure TSA, ESPN, SI...etc. would at least pick up on it slightly.

I don't recall how players were during the Francis years(if they were allowed to speak up)...but I can guarantee you Rod does not stand in anyone's way if they want to say something. Especially if you are talking about a Cullen, Staal, Whitney, Ward or even Rosie for that matter.

I would rather see them not have anyone wear the "C". Just have 2 permanant "A's" on the ice with a 3rd be rotated amoung all the players. I would have to say those two permanant in my book would be Staal and Brind'Amour.

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I don't think there would be anything quiet about doing that...everyone on this board would know immediately, I can gaurantee John, Tripp and Chuck would say something about it and I am sure TSA, ESPN, SI...etc. would at least pick up on it slightly.

I don't recall how players were during the Francis years(if they were allowed to speak up)...but I can guarantee you Rod does not stand in anyone's way if they want to say something. Especially if you are talking about a Cullen, Staal, Whitney, Ward or even Rosie for that matter.

I would rather see them not have anyone wear the "C". Just have 2 permanant "A's" on the ice with a 3rd be rotated amoung all the players. I would have to say those two permanant in my book would be Staal and Brind'Amour.

You are right. I guess I meant that rather than having a big press conference and making a big deal about it up front he just made the move itself quietly and behind closed doors. But I guess I just projected that it would be more Brind'Amour like that way and then let the noise begin after that. But it really wouldn't matter if he did make a formal announcement, the effect would be the same on the team.

As for what goes on in the room, who knows? I am not in the room. I just see what I think is an effect on the ice. In my continued speculation, I don't think that the issue is blatently obvious like Rod squashing other's input. I don't know, but I really doubt that. It must be more subtle. Just a kind of "tuning out". I have to think if his affect on the team is obvious to a rank amatuer such as myself that the rest of the team must know it and it just kind of builds. They may think that a change should be made but isn't happening. It probably doesn't even rise to the level of resentment so much as "whatever".

This leads to too many nights with Rod there where they just don't show up. It happens to all teams, so I would think hey, it happens to the best of them. But then Rod goes out of the lineup and the team responds the way teams do when the coach get fired. They've done it twice now. OK, not much of a series of data, but then he comes back in and ommmphf. They give up 10 goals and score once in two games. I mean the peak to trough of the two games without and the two games back with Brind'Amour are pretty stark. It is not a direct affect of Rod's play to be sure, but an affect on the team psyche. That's the only way I can explain what I see on the ice.

I don't know what it is, or how it works, but there is something to it in my opinion. Of course, I could be wrong.

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You are right. I guess I meant that rather than having a big press conference and making a big deal about it up front he just made the move itself quietly and behind closed doors. But I guess I just projected that it would be more Brind'Amour like that way and then let the noise begin after that. But it really wouldn't matter if he did make a formal announcement, the effect would be the same on the team.

As for what goes on in the room, who knows? I am not in the room. I just see what I think is an effect on the ice. In my continued speculation, I don't think that the issue is blatently obvious like Rod squashing other's input. I don't know, but I really doubt that. It must be more subtle. Just a kind of "tuning out". I have to think if his affect on the team is obvious to a rank amatuer such as myself that the rest of the team must know it and it just kind of builds. They may think that a change should be made but isn't happening. It probably doesn't even rise to the level of resentment so much as "whatever".

This leads to too many nights with Rod there where they just don't show up. It happens to all teams, so I would think hey, it happens to the best of them. But then Rod goes out of the lineup and the team responds the way teams do when the coach get fired. They've done it twice now. OK, not much of a series of data, but then he comes back in and ommmphf. They give up 10 goals and score once in two games. I mean the peak to trough of the two games without and the two games back with Brind'Amour are pretty stark. It is not a direct affect of Rod's play to be sure, but an affect on the team psyche. That's the only way I can explain what I see on the ice.

I don't know what it is, or how it works, but there is something to it in my opinion. Of course, I could be wrong.

We have all heard how stubborn and hard headed Brindy can be. Its hard to be a leader of a team if you don't listen to your teammates ideas or thoughts. I'm sure that doesn't resonate well with others on the team. Especially this season. I see that as being the problem with Brind'Amour. Especially now - he is in denial and upset with what is going on. That can cause him to become even more hard headed with team issues.

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Shouldn't this thread morph to "Staal -11 in last 25 games; Projects to -36 for a Full Season"? If this thread is about +/-, Rod has turned it around in the last 25 games, outperforming Staal in this stat at half the cost. Get off his back!

We have all heard how stubborn and hard headed Brindy can be. Its hard to be a leader of a team if you don't listen to your teammates ideas or thoughts. I'm sure that doesn't resonate well with others on the team. Especially this season. I see that as being the problem with Brind'Amour. Especially now - he is in denial and upset with what is going on. That can cause him to become even more hard headed with team issues.

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Shouldn't this thread morph to "Staal -11 in last 25 games; Projects to -36 for a Full Season"? If this thread is about +/-, Rod has turned it around in the last 25 games, outperforming Staal in this stat at half the cost. Get off his back!

Rod has turned it around in the last 25 games and is outperforming Staal in this stat at half the cost? Rod Brind'Amour? Are you certain? I must be doing the math wrong on that one or the NHL.com doesn't have updated statistics. I especially don't see Rod outperforming anyone. He has done well the past 3 games but lets not hold our breath.

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We have all heard how stubborn and hard headed Brindy can be. Its hard to be a leader of a team if you don't listen to your teammates ideas or thoughts. I'm sure that doesn't resonate well with others on the team. Especially this season. I see that as being the problem with Brind'Amour. Especially now - he is in denial and upset with what is going on. That can cause him to become even more hard headed with team issues.

I didn't know you were actually in the locker room and playing on this team and in Rod Brind'Amours head to know exactly what he is thinking and how he is in denial(it's not just a river in Egypt you know) about his abilities.

You are such a TALENT! You should take that talent on the road!

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I didn't know you were actually in the locker room and playing on this team and in Rod Brind'Amours head to know exactly what he is thinking and how he is in denial(it's not just a river in Egypt you know) about his abilities.

You are such a TALENT! You should take that talent on the road!

Thank you Cardiac. You obviously have an eye for talent. I believe in getting things done and doing whatever it takes to win. I think Rod's actions speak for himself. We have been told he is an elephant and we see how the team responds when he is on the ice. We have seen the excellent play of Cullen. We saw the results when he is off the ice. Those are facts not speculation.

Brindy is a great guy. As a PLAYER he is known for being hard headed by his players and coaches. Do you think that would be different in the locker room and as a leader? I think not.

You're a wonderful person Cardiac. Keep up the hard work.

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My position was that Rod is outperforming Staal in +/-, which he is. All of the things so many people jumped on Rod for in the area of +/-? He's improved, Staal is now doing EXACTLY the same things Rod wa earlier in the season.

So... my position remains - why wouldn't we be MORE concerned about Staal's performance, given the money he makes, and his age, than we are with Rod? It's not logical.

It SHOULD be perfectly natural for most of us to see - "Rod's 38, has had major knee surgery, continues to have lingering issues, GEE, maybe he shouldn't be EXPECTED to play as well as he has in the past?"

That doesn't make him a slacker or a bad leader or anything else.

On the other hand, Eric Staal is one of the top Ironmen in the NHL, has played in how many hundreds of consecutive games. He's big, he's talented, he's 24, and he's going to make more than 8million dollars for the next 7 years.

Let's see, maybe, just maybe, the outrage is pointing at the wrong player?

Rod has turned it around in the last 25 games and is outperforming Staal in this stat at half the cost? Rod Brind'Amour? Are you certain? I must be doing the math wrong on that one or the NHL.com doesn't have updated statistics. I especially don't see Rod outperforming anyone. He has done well the past 3 games but lets not hold our breath.

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My position was that Rod is outperforming Staal in +/-, which he is. All of the things so many people jumped on Rod for in the area of +/-? He's improved, Staal is now doing EXACTLY the same things Rod wa earlier in the season.

So... my position remains - why wouldn't we be MORE concerned about Staal's performance, given the money he makes, and his age, than we are with Rod? It's not logical.

It SHOULD be perfectly natural for most of us to see - "Rod's 38, has had major knee surgery, continues to have lingering issues, GEE, maybe he shouldn't be EXPECTED to play as well as he has in the past?"

That doesn't make him a slacker or a bad leader or anything else.

On the other hand, Eric Staal is one of the top Ironmen in the NHL, has played in how many hundreds of consecutive games. He's big, he's talented, he's 24, and he's going to make more than 8million dollars for the next 7 years.

Let's see, maybe, just maybe, the outrage is pointing at the wrong player?

Rod is not outperforming Staal in anything. Staal is not doing EXACTLY anything Rod was doing earlier or now. No point in arguing. Staal is the last of our worries but yes you are right he should step it up and if you ever read the GDT you would see the same post from others.

This is pointless but just in case you are wondering why people are upset

Rod is making $4 or $3.6 milllion this year and had 19 minutes on the ice last night (injured?)

Staal is making $4.5 mil and has twice as many points as Rod with only 2 games more.

I read this statistic earlier

Goal differencial with Brindy out: 11-5

After he was brought back: 5-15, 2-15 at home

Nobody is pointing at the wrong player.

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