Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
ncz82

Brind'Amour currently the worst defensive player in the league

Recommended Posts

Samsonov has 0G and 2A Eaves has 0G and 2A Cullen has 4G 0A LaRose has 4G and 2A (and has gotten 2G and 2A in the last two games and was NOT on Brindamours line)
So what you're saying is that Eaves has as many ES points, while Cullen and LaRose are both outscoring Brind'amour at ES? And that LaRose wasn't able to score with Brind'amour, but can with Helminen? Thanks for proving my point. Brind'amour is dragging down his linemates at even strength. He is putting up points on the powerplay and that is it.

... Looks like he's outscoring all of his linemates except Whitney. Why dwell on the +/-? He's on the ice probably more than any other player then freakin Cam Ward, of course he's gonna get scored against.. Do you expect him to play D and Goal as well??
What does ice time have to do with +/-? It's goal differential, not just goals against.

And for the record, the following players are averaging more ES time than Brind'amour: Gleason (E), Seidennberg (+1), Wallin (+10), Pitkanen (-2), Corvo (-1), Staal (+3). None of them are even close to a -10 rating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is obvious that many of our stars are not hitting on all cylinders yet. Injuries, age or new line mates, whatever the cause. I am happy with our record and where we are. The guys are still finding ways to win. Ugly wins count and were a trademark of the cup run years. Benching Roddy is not a good idea. He is far more important to this team than any of us on the outside will ever know. Personally, I am hoping that the storm will be unleashed when everything clicks and we are healthy. It sure will be fun trying to decide the stars of the game when four lines are scoring. Maybe I am an eternal optimist but it sure beats following the stock market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So what you're saying is that Eaves has as many ES points, while Cullen and LaRose are both outscoring Brind'amour at ES? And that LaRose wasn't able to score with Brind'amour, but can with Helminen? Thanks for proving my point.(this only applies if you actually had a point) Brind'amour is dragging down his linemates at even strength. He is putting up points on the powerplay and that is it.

What does ice time have to do with +/-? It's goal differential, not just goals against.

And for the record, the following players are averaging more ES time than Brind'amour: Gleason (E), Seidennberg (+1), Wallin (+10), Pitkanen (-2), Corvo (-1), Staal (+3). None of them are even close to a -10 rating.

Wow... what are you talking about? Samsonov cant score but its Brind'amours fault? How does that make any sense?

Whatever dude.. you welcome to your opinion... What will you have to say when Brindy lifts another Cup?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He had just one preseason game right? Although he was in shape when he returned, nothing makes up for game time on the ice. We're only 12 games into the season and the bashing continues. I watched the interview of JR and he doesn't seem too concerned with Rod's abilities. As I said at the end of last season, if you think Rod will return as the same player, in terms of speed and skating agility, you are expecting a miracle. However, as a leader, I still believe he's the go to guy.

I've had knee operations, and the last one removed me from being able to continue in competitive hockey and begin coaching full time. Even though these guys have top care and rehab, you just don't get it all back. The older you get with these types of injuries, the longer it takes and the more you lose in the legs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lol, the players won't EVER say anyone but Brind'Amour is their leader. You can't listen to them. Instead, you watch how they play, or how the team does, when so and so goes down or plays well.

The fact is, when Brindy got injured last season, the team responsed incredibly well with Eric Staal and Cam Ward leading the way. Staal had something like 45 points in 32 games, and Ward of course started the last 20 games for us. They led the way, and Brind'Amour's injury wasn't so problematic as we all thought it would be.

Also, just ask yourself, which players, depending on their play, make the team do well or not do well? Brind'Amour's play is important, but not really a major factor...I mean just look at this season and also last. For Staal and Ward however, it's a different story. When Staal is playing poorly, the entire offense seems to struggle. And when Ward is bad, well...we just don't win very many games. But when both of these players are doing well, we're one of the top teams in the East. It's that simple.

Like I said before, Brind'Amour is important, but he's not the means to the end like some people hold him up to be. He was two years ago, but not anymore. And quite frankly, how could we expect him to be? This team really should be Staal's and Ward's...they're our franchise cornerstones. Brind'Amour may be our Captain, but he's not the only leader. Staal and Ward, imo, carry the team just as much if not more.

Playing exceptionally well is great, but it definitely does not equate to leadership. Last year, in the end, their play did not take the Canes to the playoffs. They were lacking the leadership on the ice to finish the job when they neede a boost to get the big win like Brid A'Mour provide in the Cup run. Think what you will, Staal and Ward are each struggling through their own developmental stages and will be ready to take on more of a leadership role when they are able to not only get in tune with themselves on a more consistent manner, but also generate the support to facilitate their teamates motivation.

Not sure what crystal ball causes one to selectively believe what the other players say, but as an life long observer of human nature, they seem pretty darn sincere when they speak of Brind A'mour's character, leadership, and guidance. The fact that remains, Staal and Ward do not generate those sentiments yet from their teamates. You'll hear what a standout game one or the other has had, but they have not yet created the confidence and respect that they will need to become the team's leader. It'll come to one of them..eventually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Projected -63 for the season? By that reasoning Wallin will be ........hmmmmm +63 for the season. Riiiiight. LMAO

That's it! Everyone needs to write in the future Norris candidate, Nic Wallin, on the All Star ballot. If the Slug fans can get Rory Fitpatrick nominated, we can get Nic "the Secret Weapon" nominated. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow... what are you talking about? Samsonov cant score but its Brind'amours fault? How does that make any sense?

Whatever dude.. you welcome to your opinion... What will you have to say when Brindy lifts another Cup?

He's saying that not only has Brindy been -10 defensively but he's dragging his line mates down on even strength by not producing.

Another valid point he made was that just because Brindy has high ice time doesn't mean he's "gonna get scored against." There are plenty of players on the team with higher ice time who are not getting scored against.

As I said before, the difference is hustle. If I thought Brindy was playing hard then it wouldn't be such an issue that he's -10. Guys catch bad breaks. But what I've noticed is that Brindy is not skating and not making the plays he was a few years ago. He's one of my favorite players, but there's no way you could convince me that being -10 and having only 2 ES points is NOT hurting the team. I like Brindy too, as a player and person. But he's not playing good hockey and something needs to be done about it before we start losing games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, this thread was freaky spot on tonight. You just cant miss an open net on a 5 on 3 and then take a stupid penalty to negate the man advantage.... oye :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Puhleeeze People!!! Give me a break.

As for Rod's leadership of this team...Last year Lavi called him the best leader in sports. Rutherford has said that he is the captain of this team as long as he wants to be. His work ethic is praised on a consistent basis.

Trip and John have repeatedly mentioned that Brind'amour isn't close to 100%, He is not dragging his line mates down. Quite the opposite if you ask me. His line mates thus far this season have come straight off the hockey equivalent of the shortbus (Eaves and Samsanov = pretty much useless thus far, Walker decent enough, but basically playing with one hand). He had basically no preseason, he has called himself out for having bad games and you can tell he's frustrated by it and is trying to get there by playing through his injuries.

The other night when the veteran players on the team got called out for not playing as well as they should, WHAT VETERAN was mentioned as having had a solid game? Brind'amour.

What about Mr. Franchise, Eric Staal? Isn't he supposed to be our best player? What is his excuse? I don't see him leading by example. Is he coming off of a serious injury? Is he not being paid enough? For a very long stretch of the game tonight, I seriously forgot he was even playing in this game. He was INVISIBLE. AND his line mates are playing well this year and have been producing. He should be showing up a lot more if you ask me.

At least Rod has scored all of his goals with a goaltender in the net.

Look, the reality is that Rod's +/- will improve. Staal will snap out of it. And Sammy and Eaves will hopefully (fingers crossed) show up for the '08-'09 season at some point.

Thus far, this season feels like our team has been stuck in the twilight zone in many ways - starting the season with a ridiculous number of injuries, good record despite half-*edit* efforts on many nights, and the players that we expected to be great have not exactly been, while some of the ones who we have expected the least from have been our stars.

Tonight while we were still in the lead I was thinking about how lucky we are to be first in the division considering all of the injured players and how we would probably be even better if all of our guys were healthy. It's still early in the season, and I, for one, am going to sit back and keep my fingers crossed that these guys get healthy and will look forward to seeing what we can do in the month of November.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow, this thread was freaky spot on tonight. You just cant miss an open net on a 5 on 3 and then take a stupid penalty to negate the man advantage.... oye :(

And not just that but the winning goal with ten seconds left came off a pass that he could have easily reached out and picked off but instead decided to stare at it and not make the play. It sucks that he got hit with the stick afterward but he should have picked off that pass easily. He was in the lane but as he's been doing all season he didn't even make an effort to play d.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And not just that but the winning goal with ten seconds left came off a pass that he could have easily reached out and picked off but instead decided to stare at it and not make the play. It sucks that he got hit with the stick afterward but he should have picked off that pass easily. He was in the lane but as he's been doing all season he didn't even make an effort to play d.

LOL, I didnt dare mention that for fear of of the firing squad. He made a few good plays but overall, he didnt have a very good game tonight.

I wish people would read the whole thread before posting sometimes. This wasnt about bashing Brind'Amour or even calling for him to be benched, it was about suggesting to reduce some of his responsibilties on the ice till he either heals or finds his game again. It certainly wasnt about stripping him of his Captaincy or saying he wasnt the leader of this team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LOL, I didnt dare mention that for fear of of the firing squad. He made a few good plays but overall, didnt have a very good game tonight.

I wish people would read the whole thread before posting sometimes. This wasnt about bashing Brind'Amour or even calling for him to be benched, it was about suggesting to reduce some of his responsibilties on the ice till he either heals or finds his game again. It certainly wasnt about stripping him of his Captaincy or saying he wasnt the leader of this team.

I know what you mean. I don't see why everyone is so sensitive when it comes to criticism of players. I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing it out when a player is playing bad. Even if it is the captain who led us to the cup only a couple years ago. Just because he's our captain doesn't mean he can do no wrong and is immune to criticism.

The way I see it is he cost us the game tonight. For whatever reason, he's struggling. He needs a big cut in ice time or he needs to sit until he's healthy. As he is right now, he's hurting the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tonight is sort of a good exmaple, you have a quick and good transition team in washington and he just can't get back in time for the game-winner (not that I blame him for the loss or anything, but his speed is at an all-time low). Even strength i still think he's gotta go to 3rd line center when Cullen is back. Rod is still valuable to the team, but it's just gotta be in a limited role.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been saying for a long time that Roddy needs to be moved down and center a third checking line. Put maybe Walker and Eaves or even Bayda on his line now and you've got a great, rough line that can shut down other team's top lines. And having two defensive minded players alongside Rod will help him out and cover him until he heals and is 100%. Would make for an awesome checking line, and it could even contribute some goals here and there. When the Canes have to take a faceoff in the defensive zone put them out there and let them clear it and then put out the scoring lines. Save Roddy for those times and the PK's.

Move up the LaRose/Helminen/Ruutu line up to 2nd behind Staals' and let those two be the scoring lines. Then the 4th is the energy line and replacement parts with all the injuries.

Maybe he will come back 100% and can be moved back up to centering a line that can score a lot, but right now it's obvious that he's slower and the worst thing to do is to put him on lines with less defensive savvy players that are more offensive minded scorers in the hopes that they'll be a scoring line. If he's the one supposed to be covering for them and he's too slow to get back, that means there's nobody there to help defend.

It's not bashing a player to say to use their skills and what they offer to their fullest potential, and to match them with other players that better compliment them. Whether temporarily or permanently.

Whatever it takes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not worried at all for Brindy except when he took that high stick late in the game which helped give the crapitals the win which they got really lucky on because we were out shooting them in that 3rd period. I don't know what went wrong in that period we could have easily beaten them 2-1. Or 3-1 if we gotten a empty netter but heck they didn't even needed to do that when they tied the game. Brindy has 8 points this year that's good. I'm only concerned for Eaves and Samsonov they only have assist no goals yet. We got home ice tomorrow against Ottawa let's get a win and 4 pts again on the crapitals and take advantage of this home ice of this month which we have a lot of games at home this month and were only 2-2 at home we need to be better at home now. We still have a good road record so I'm not worried about that either because last night was our only 2 regulation lost on the road.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh boy, another player bashing thread. We're averaging a new one a day, but during this awful losing stretch, it's not surprising to see. :rolleyes:

My take on Brindy: first, he is clearly missing his bread and butter linemate in Williams. Second, he is likely not yet at full speed following his preseason surgery. Third, naturally, he is older/slower. Lavi should be cutting his ice time to 18 or so minutes. And, to Lavi's credit, that's about what Brindy was getting earlier in the season. However, ever since Sutter went down, Brindy has been putting in more PK time and his ice time has been averaging about 22 minutes since the Islander game. Hopefully we get Sutter back and Brindy can be fresher with fewer minutes.

On Brindy's plus: he is third on the team in scoring; his shooting percentage accuracy is 18.2%, his best ever as a Cane and significantly better than his career average of 14% (I say "Shoot! Brindy, shoot!"); and he is currently second in the league in the circle winning 63.2% of draws.

Nobody is bashing. We are fans who want to see our favorite team win. Mid to late November from 2006 to present we have witnessed the same performance of Brindy. We complained last year and the year before but nothing changes.

Stop making excuses. Don't say he is getting more than 18 minutes because of Sutter. Last year it was the injured players that kept him on the ice 20+ minutes and was his reason for sluggish play. We claimed he wasn't as good last year when we lost Williams. It isn't Willams, he is old and not as good. It is natural and we all go through it. We don't think less of Rod for getting old.

I'm going to be honest. They cushion Rod's stats. Like most veteran players playing for the record books or hall of fame everything seems to go their way statistically. We saw what happened last year without him. People stand up for him and make excuse but it is three seasons in a row and its time to move on.

We aren't bashing him only pointing out the obvious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've been saying for a long time that Roddy needs to be moved down and center a third checking line. Put maybe Walker and Eaves or even Bayda on his line now and you've got a great, rough line that can shut down other team's top lines. And having two defensive minded players alongside Rod will help him out and cover him until he heals and is 100%. Would make for an awesome checking line, and it could even contribute some goals here and there. When the Canes have to take a faceoff in the defensive zone put them out there and let them clear it and then put out the scoring lines. Save Roddy for those times and the PK's.

Move up the LaRose/Helminen/Ruutu line up to 2nd behind Staals' and let those two be the scoring lines. Then the 4th is the energy line and replacement parts with all the injuries.

Maybe he will come back 100% and can be moved back up to centering a line that can score a lot, but right now it's obvious that he's slower and the worst thing to do is to put him on lines with less defensive savvy players that are more offensive minded scorers in the hopes that they'll be a scoring line. If he's the one supposed to be covering for them and he's too slow to get back, that means there's nobody there to help defend.

It's not bashing a player to say to use their skills and what they offer to their fullest potential, and to match them with other players that better compliment them. Whether temporarily or permanently.

Whatever it takes.

I have also been calling for Brind'Amour to move to the third line for a while. So I agree with you. But I don't see it happening until Cullen is back to center the second line.

As far as leadership, he can lead from the third line. There are captains who play on the third line. Brind'Amour has been lauded so widely on his leadership by so many that there can be little doubt that he is a great leader. But if leadership on the ice were enough, then Laviollette should lace them up and get out there. And if his leadership brought victories lately then why were we losing so regularly before he went down last year, and immediately and suddenly went on a sustained run with him out?

Brind'Amour had CLEARLY lost a step. Even his goals were tips or standing in front of the net. He is a very smart positional player and can cover his losses some with that. He can still contribute, but in a smaller role. If he gets it back, he certainly has the know how to be a very good second line center, but he should work on getting it back on the third line.

The lack of production from a key core of our main players has been hidden by timely goaltending, point production from the blue line, and role players stepping up, and a little luck. This cannot go on forever. We need better output from Staal, Samsonov, Eaves and Brind'Amour. That and we need our other injured players back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, one thing I think everyone is getting caught up in is the line numbers, too. Like it's an insult for Brindy to be moved down to third line. They're more of a guide to getting players that play well together out on the ice at the same time, not something absolute. At least the top 3 lines on the Canes.

There's some nights where if the Canes are on the defensive more often than not, then a checking line may be playing more minutes than the other lines. Other nights maybe Staal is in good form and so his line plays more minutes. Or maybe the LaRose - Helminen line is doing really well and so they play the most. Lavi tends to play who and what is working.

That, and so many are still caught up in thinking that the Canes should have four scoring lines. The past two seasons should have taught us that that simply doesn't work. Forwards need to be able to play defense, too, and you need to have other roles than just scorers on the team. Especially now that things aren't as wide open as they were the first year out of the strike. Besides, just because you have a good defensive checking line of forwards doesn't mean that they aren't allowed to score.

Heck, if you put out a line against Pittsburgh's Crosby-Malkin line and they end the game at +/-0, are you going to say they had a horrible game because they didn't score? Or are you going to be thrilled that they shut down a top quality scoring line and kept them a non-factor for the game? That's something we all should remember when debating these kinds of things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have admired Rod for years. Starting with his days in St. Louis, to Philly and celebrated wildy when he came to the Canes. I have no doubts 17 will be raised to th rafters some day, and deservedly so. I even expect him to be in the HOF one day. That being said, there is something amiss. I was at the Edmonton and watched him closely. There were times when he seemed not to be able to push off and accelerate up or down the ice and aa time or two when he actually seemed to shy away form even attempting to acclerate. This indicates to me the knee is not nearly 100%. Maybe his ice time should be reduced to allow the knee to heal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He ain't lookin' any better tonite. Two offensive turnovers and two bad PK clearing attempts so far through one period. He just looks soft. :(

Well he did get that made up for tonight with a assist what do you think about that now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

he looks to have that ron-francis-lost-step. he just looks slow. still a valuable member of the team, but not nearly the threat offensively or defensively of yester-year [word?]. nasty scar though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've been really patient with him thinking that it's only a matter of time before he regains his defensive dominance but enough is enough. He's just not skating. He's not making plays on the defensive end and looks completely out of place out there. The -10 speaks for itself. He's been terrible this year. He always seems to be there watching the other team score when I see replays of the goals. I'm seeing no effort or hustle in his play. This is so not like him. I wonder if he is still recovering from his injury? Or maybe he's just getting old and lost his hustle? Either way he's hurting the team. It really pains me to say this because he's one of my favorite players and the captain. But I think that Lavi should bench him a few games.

I suppose the "bench him" comment is pointing to punishing him for his play. Yeah, that's what I'd do to my Captain, my "player-coach." That ought to about do the trick. Embarrassing him by benching him should help team morale up and down the line-up. Sit him down. :rolleyes: He looked a little slow tonight also. That broken nose he suffered last night in Washington and those stitches in his nose are no excuse. Bench him! While we are at it, bench Staal too. His play with his shoulder injury is no excuse for his not playing like a super star.

While Brindy is getting back up to speed from his knee injury, I might give him more rest, give him a shift off every so often. I'd do about anything except bench him. But what do I know about hockey. Maybe hockey is different from other sports. Maybe benching your future hall of famer and Captain would make him hustle more. :rolleyes:

ncz82, IMNSHO you missed a wonderful opportunity to stand silent. :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...