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ncz82

Brind'Amour currently the worst defensive player in the league

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I was not going to voice my opinion on this one but I have too.

Roddy would not take it to the extreme of playing bad, he is to much of a professional...BUT...how would you feel if you had been playing as long as he has, worked his tail off and finally made Captain to have a young gun, Staal, step in and get all the glory? (Long sentence!)

All I hear is Staal is the future leader of the Cane's, Staal steps it up, Staal this, Staal that. Roddy is the leader of the Cane's and he deserves to be recognized as that. OK, you state his play is down, well, treat him like a Captain and quite harpen on Staal.

When Roddy has gone THEN we can look at Staal and make him Captain. But right now, the captain is RODDY!

just my .02~

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I was not going to voice my opinion on this one but I have too.

Roddy would not take it to the extreme of playing bad, he is to much of a professional...BUT...how would you feel if you had been playing as long as he has, worked his tail off and finally made Captain to have a young gun, Staal, step in and get all the glory? (Long sentence!)

All I hear is Staal is the future leader of the Cane's, Staal steps it up, Staal this, Staal that. Roddy is the leader of the Cane's and he deserves to be recognized as that. OK, you state his play is down, well, treat him like a Captain and quite harpen on Staal.

When Roddy has gone THEN we can look at Staal and make him Captain. But right now, the captain is RODDY!

just my .02~

Staal is the future of the Hurricanes franchise. I don't see recognizing him as such as taking "the glory" away from Brindy or his captaincy. Staal is younger and a better player. Yeah, Brindy is our captain. And Chris Clark is the captain of the capitals. Does that mean that Ovechkin shouldn't be recognized as a great player?

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I haven't read through this whole thread, but here's my 2 cents (sorry if I said what others already have).

Brind'Amour is no young chicken and he's just coming off a major knee injury. Young guys can heal better and are able to shake those injuries off a bit easier. Brind'Amour is 38 though, and he may be the fittest guy around, but that doesn't matter when you are 38 and have major knee surgery.

He's still a great leader and a guy the young ones can look up to. However, I feel he should not be the one logging 18-20 minutes of ice time. Leave that for the younger ones.

I like Brind'Amour, but I think his role should be diminished a bit. No, I'm not saying strip him of the 'C', I'm saying lower his minutes. Have him center the 3rd line. And we can still have him take those important face offs.

The way I look at, our centers should shape up like this: Staal, Cullen, Brind'Amour, Sutter.

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without even reading this thread, I think its sad to call out

one of our best defensive forwards of the last 6 years or so.

so he is not off to a great start, I Guaranty he will not be a minus 63.

I would say that he will start to play better very soon

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You wanna flame-bait statement, how about this - In my opinion, the best hockey the Canes have played since 06-19-06 was during the time Brind'Amour was out due to injury. Draw your own conclusions....

I couldn't agree more.

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Those who keep insisting that the Canes played better when Brind'Amour was out last year have definitely a rose tinted vision with selective memory of last year's season. We struggled to keep abreast of the division the whole time Brind'Amour was out and in the last couple of weeks couldn't win one of several games that would have locked in a playaoff spot. In 2006 Brind'Amour stepped in time and time again to pull our fat out of the fire in potential season ending games especially in the Cup race. Last year, without him, the Canes choked mightily. There was no spirit and drive to excel when it was needed down the stretch and I'd bet his absence was a huge factor. Even when his numbers are not high, he has the ability to inspire his teamates. People who claim his reputation is somehow manufactured or over stated really don't have a understanding of what leadership really is and how it is a spot earned and not ordained by adoring fans.

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Those who keep insisting that the Canes played better when Brind'Amour was out last year have definitely a rose tinted vision with selective memory of last year's season. We struggled to keep abreast of the division the whole time Brind'Amour was out and in the last couple of weeks couldn't win one of several games that would have locked in a playaoff spot. In 2006 Brind'Amour stepped in time and time again to pull our fat out of the fire in potential season ending games especially in the Cup race. Last year, without him, the Canes choked mightily. There was no spirit and drive to excel when it was needed down the stretch and I'd bet his absence was a huge factor. Even when his numbers are not high, he has the ability to inspire his teamates. People who claim his reputation is somehow manufactured or over stated really don't have a understanding of what leadership really is and how it is a spot earned and not ordained by adoring fans.

Someone else can find the record, but I think you have dark colored glasses. This team went on a tear at the end of the season. The only thing that kept us out of the playoffs was an even more impressive, monumental tear by Washington. Despite their historic run, we were in it to the last game. And that last game was a dominant effort by the Canes vs. Florida, unfortunately despite outshooting Florida hugely, for some reason *cough Cam Ward cough* we gave up a goal on nearly every Florida shot, of which there were few. The other key game was to Washington, the very team that was about the only team in the league hotter than us, in their building.

If the team had played all year as well as they did in the last 15 games, we would have been the #1 seed in the playoffs. (Assuming we got the goaltending we have been getting this year). Don't forget we were giving up games in hand all year which also came home to roost at the end.

The team also started strong with Brind'Amour in the line up at the beggining of last year. But the team was struggling mightily when he went down. Now we made a big trade and picked up Corvo, which helped, but the team on balance played extremeley well down the stretch sans Brind'Amour.

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Those who keep insisting that the Canes played better when Brind'Amour was out last year have definitely a rose tinted vision with selective memory of last year's season. We struggled to keep abreast of the division the whole time Brind'Amour was out and in the last couple of weeks couldn't win one of several games that would have locked in a playaoff spot. In 2006 Brind'Amour stepped in time and time again to pull our fat out of the fire in potential season ending games especially in the Cup race. Last year, without him, the Canes choked mightily. There was no spirit and drive to excel when it was needed down the stretch and I'd bet his absence was a huge factor. Even when his numbers are not high, he has the ability to inspire his teamates. People who claim his reputation is somehow manufactured or over stated really don't have a understanding of what leadership really is and how it is a spot earned and not ordained by adoring fans.

Maybe you have the rose tinted vision. When Brind'Amour went down on Feb. 14th on his first shift against Pittsburgh, how many people wrote the Canes off. How many times have we heard, the Canes won't be anywhere near taking the division now with their captain out of the line up.

Fact: The team's record without Brind'Amour: 15-6-2

In that span there were 2 three game win streaks, 1 five game win streak and only 1 two game loss streak. They lost the division on the very last day of the regular season. They weren't out of it come Feb. like everyone wrote them off to be.

Now I'm not saying Brind'Amour is the problem and he should retire or we should trade him. I'm just simply showing you that when Brind'Amour went down, this team did not collapse. In fact this team came together and rallied together.

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I guess the fact that we aquired Joe Corvo on 2-11-08, Rutuu on 2-26-08 who exploded on the ice the first 5 minutes after he arrived here and then the we brought in the Rat Pack which showed Lavi and this team how to play productive basic hockey had nothing to do with our winning streak. It was only because Brindy was out of the line-up. Wow imagine the embarressment of all those players who thought maybe they had something that the contributed to our wins. <_<

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My 2 cents for what it's worth. I've been thinking Brindy has not been even close to the player he was but haven't said anything because I knew I'd get blow torched. I"ve always respected him and his style of play, but I don't think he's ever going to get back to where he was before the injury. Let's face it, he's not young anymore. While his plus minus is horrendous, what has been frustrating me more is his terrible passing. If you watch, you'll see he turns the puck over more than almost anyone else. His faceoff ability is without a doubt one of the best in the league, but if you turn the puck over all the time it's a wash. I personally don't think we'll ever see the Brindy of old again.

Now Staal on the other hand is just not performing. I was at that debacle vs the Thrashers Sunday. He could have been wearing white figure skates for the way he played.

WEARING MY FLAME RETARDANT SUIT.

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I guess the fact that we aquired Joe Corvo on 2-11-08, Rutuu on 2-26-08 who exploded on the ice the first 5 minutes after he arrived here and then the we brought in the Rat Pack which showed Lavi and this team how to play productive basic hockey had nothing to do with our winning streak. It was only because Brindy was out of the line-up. Wow imagine the embarressment of all those players who thought maybe they had something that the contributed to our wins. <_<

I think all she was saying was because Brind'Amour was taken out of the line up with injuries, it forced the rest of the team to step up, taking his minutes and all his responsibilties and distributing them among several others. When all that pressure to perform gets taken off of one player, it allows others to step up and take their game to a different level and become less dependent on one guy. I doubt anyone thinks that Brind'Amour is the sole reason for all of the Cane's woes but its obvious he's not playing well for whatever reason, and all the responsiblity of high minutes and special teams could be hurting his 5 on 5 game right now.

Not to be nitpicky but Ruutu cam in last season and did make quite a splash in that first game. If you remember though, he took the stick to the face and missed the next few games and never quite played with that "splash" again when he did return to the line up. He was good, but nothing compared to that first game in Canes red. Saying "it showed Lavi" is a bit of stretch imo since the new players all fit into HIS system of play. Adding Joe Corvo proved at that time the not having that puck moving defenseman was a huge gaping hole this team had. The Rat Pack supplied the energy and grit that had been missing with some of the vets.

Ultimately, all the above reasons led to a total team effort all around. Thats what I think caniac247 was saying.

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I think all she was saying was because Brind'Amour was taken out of the line up with injuries, it forced the rest of the team to step up, taking his minutes and all his responsibilties and distributing them among several others. When all that pressure to perform gets taken off of one player, it allows others to step up and take their game to a different level and become less dependent on one guy. I doubt anyone thinks that Brind'Amour is the sole reason for all of the Cane's woes but its obvious he's not playing well for whatever reason, and all the responsiblity of high minutes and special teams could be hurting his 5 on 5 game right now.

Ultimately, all the above reasons led to a total team effort all around. Thats what I think caniac247 was saying.

Thank You. I guess this didn't register or was understandable enough. ;)

this team came together and rallied together.

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I think all she was saying was because Brind'Amour was taken out of the line up with injuries, it forced the rest of the team to step up, taking his minutes and all his responsibilties and distributing them among several others. When all that pressure to perform gets taken off of one player, it allows others to step up and take their game to a different level and become less dependent on one guy. I doubt anyone thinks that Brind'Amour is the sole reason for all of the Cane's woes but its obvious he's not playing well for whatever reason, and all the responsiblity of high minutes and special teams could be hurting his 5 on 5 game right now.

Not to be nitpicky but Ruutu cam in last season and did make quite a splash in that first game. If you remember though, he took the stick to the face and missed the next few games and never quite played with that "splash" again when he did return to the line up. He was good, but nothing compared to that first game in Canes red. Saying "it showed Lavi" is a bit of stretch imo since the new players all fit into HIS system of play. Adding Joe Corvo proved at that time the not having that puck moving defenseman was a huge gaping hole this team had. The Rat Pack supplied the energy and grit that had been missing with some of the vets.

Ultimately, all the above reasons led to a total team effort all around. Thats what I think caniac247 was saying.

I did not quote caniac247's post in my post, so defending her was in vein (how noble of you though). ;)

It was meant towards anyone in this thread who inferred that Brindy not being in the line-up after his injury was the reason that this team all of sudden started winning, which is what a lot of posters are saying (not all, but several). I'm defending our Captain with my opinion on the thread. My post was saying they were not looking at the big picture of the players who came in with their talent of basic hockey and Lavi's style of play was put on the back burner. When Lavi brought back that style at the end of the season, it was one of many reasons that lost our season. <_<

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I did not quote caniac247's post in my post, so defending her was in vein (how noble of you though). ;)

It was meant towards anyone in this thread who inferred that Brindy not being in the line-up after his injury was the reason that this team all of sudden started winning, which is what a lot of posters are saying (not all, but several). I'm defending our Captain with my opinion on the thread. My post was saying they were not looking at the big picture of the players who came in with their talent of basic hockey and Lavi's style of play was put on the back burner. When Lavi brought back that style at the end of the season, it was one of many reasons that lost our season. <_<

Im not being "noble", just offerring an explanation in response to sarcasm.

Are you so sure that whats people are saying here? And just to clarify, are you suggesting that AHL level players are superior somehow to NHL level players? Wouldnt you think if that was the case, the AHL players would in fact be NHL players instead?

You say that Laviolettes style of play, Im assuming you mean the system he uses, was put on the back burner? You're entitled to your opinion but the system is based on plugging any player into the line up and as long as they're doing their specific job (as dictated by the system), they should have success. The system fails when one or more parts fail. This can happen when one player isnt doing his job well or at all, or one player tries to do too much. It can also be any combination of the two.

I cant agree with you at all here, it was Laviolette's system (also the same system used by Tommy Rowe in Albany) that allowed these AHL players to be able to jump right into the line up and play the system to a T.

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Im not being "noble", just offerring an explanation in response to sarcasm.

Are you so sure that whats people are saying here? And just to clarify, are you suggesting that AHL level players are superior somehow to NHL level players? Wouldnt you think if that was the case, the AHL players would in fact be NHL players instead?

You say that Laviolettes style of play, Im assuming you mean the system he uses, was put on the back burner? You're entitled to your opinion but the system is based on plugging any player into the line up and as long as they're doing their specific job (as dictated by the system), they should have success. The system fails when one or more parts fail. This can happen when one player isnt doing his job well or at all, or one player tries to do too much. It can also be any combination of the two.

I cant agree with you at all here, it was Laviolette's system (also the same system used by Tommy Rowe in Albany) that allowed these AHL players to be able to jump right into the line up and play the system to a T.

Obviously we were watching 2 different games last season when the Rat Pack played last year and they clearly showed who was NHL caliber and who was AHL caliber. No Tom Rowe and Lavi do not play the same system. Hopefully Rowe will get the chance to show this organization what needs to be done to having a winning team again. As they say---there's a change a coming...

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Obviously we were watching 2 different games last season when the Rat Pack played last year and they clearly showed who was NHL caliber and who was AHL caliber. No Tom Rowe and Lavi do not play the same system. Hopefully Rowe will get the chance to show this organization what needs to be done to having a winning team again. As they say---there's a change a coming...

Please explain Tom Rowe's system last year in the AHL...

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I'm not sure what Roddy's plus /minus was last nite ( 11/18 Habs game) but i sure got glimpses of the Roddy that we are all use to seeing. Not sure if he is feeling better but he played a very good game last nite. Looked like the "C" was leading by example!!!

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Not to be nitpicky but Ruutu cam in last season and did make quite a splash in that first game. If you remember though, he took the stick to the face and missed the next few games and never quite played with that "splash" again when he did return to the line up. He was good, but nothing compared to that first game in Canes red. Saying "it showed Lavi" is a bit of stretch imo since the new players all fit into HIS system of play. Adding Joe Corvo proved at that time the not having that puck moving defenseman was a huge gaping hole this team had. The Rat Pack supplied the energy and grit that had been missing with some of the vets.

Uh, Ruutu actually missed ZERO games. That's how I knew he was going to be dedicated, and look how he's turned out this season! And about the missed splash? He's still a one man wrecking ball out there. I've seen shifts of his where he throws out 2 huge checks and then gets the puck and moves it up the ice. He's sometimes a one man show. He has said he loves it here, and it seems to me that Lavi and him have reached quite the agreement.

But, this thread is about Brind'Amour. So I'll let Ruutu be for now.

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I hate Brindy has hit a slump, but I too have noticed the productivity (or lack thereof). I still wear my 17 sweater with pride, but I have said that maybe a little shake up between the C and the A's might not be a bad thing. However, seeing that the A's scored all 5 points against the Great One's team, maybe the shake up, unfortunately, needs to be with the C.

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I hate Brindy has hit a slump, but I too have noticed the productivity (or lack thereof). I still wear my 17 sweater with pride, but I have said that maybe a little shake up between the C and the A's might not be a bad thing. However, seeing that the A's scored all 5 points against the Great One's team, maybe the shake up, unfortunately, needs to be with the C.

??? slump ??? are you referring to his (2nd on the team) 14pts??? sure his +/- rating is pretty crappy but he is constantly called upon to help on just about any situation. If you are basing all of the goals last night on who gets the "C" then Staal should have had his "A" changed to a "F" about 5 games ago. you cant determine who is captain just by what happens in one game. Brindy has given everything to this club. He might be getting older, he might be getting a little slower, but he is still Rod by god Brind'Amour.

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I hate Brindy has hit a slump, but I too have noticed the productivity (or lack thereof). I still wear my 17 sweater with pride, but I have said that maybe a little shake up between the C and the A's might not be a bad thing. However, seeing that the A's scored all 5 points against the Great One's team, maybe the shake up, unfortunately, needs to be with the C.

PM me with the name of your dealer!

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??? slump ??? are you referring to his (2nd on the team) 14pts??? sure his +/- rating is pretty crappy but he is constantly called upon to help on just about any situation. If you are basing all of the goals last night on who gets the "C" then Staal should have had his "A" changed to a "F" about 5 games ago. you cant determine who is captain just by what happens in one game. Brindy has given everything to this club. He might be getting older, he might be getting a little slower, but he is still Rod by god Brind'Amour.

I am getting tire of all these What have you done for me lately attitude. Brind'Amour has been loyal to us for such a long time that I think we should owe him the same. I do not know where the projection of -63 is coming from. This is clearly a falsehood. It is like saying I discovered a biased coin that comes up heads 60% of the time. The proof is when I tossed my coin 5 times, It came up heads 3 times and tails twice. So if I toss it 100 times, surely it will come up heads 60 times. My point is you cannot project +/- numbers. If a player is -10 then the projection for the year should be -10 also. The players are constantly learning. There are typically 10 skaters on ice and all of them will modify their play after a goal is scored. With so much variables at hand, +/- really doesn't say much about the probabilities of future outcome. It is a question who can adjust faster.

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I am getting tire of all these What have you done for me lately attitude. Brind'Amour has been loyal to us for such a long time that I think we should owe him the same.

this is exactly my point. ;)

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