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ncz82

Brind'Amour currently the worst defensive player in the league

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Rod is not the player he was, but he is still an extremely good player. I imagine most, if not all NHL teams would welcome him with open arms to their rosters and we, in a non-traditional hockey market, are extremely fortunate that he has chocen to stay. He should keep the "C". He is the heart and soul of this team numbers be da***d. Shoulod his roll be reduced, proabably. But without Rod, this team would not have a chance at a playoff or much chance to win many hockey games.

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Rod is not the player he was, but he is still an extremely good player. I imagine most, if not all NHL teams would welcome him with open arms to their rosters and we, in a non-traditional hockey market, are extremely fortunate that he has chocen to stay. He should keep the "C". He is the heart and soul of this team numbers be da***d. Shoulod his roll be reduced, proabably. But without Rod, this team would not have a chance at a playoff or much chance to win many hockey games.

Are you joking?

Seriously you must be joking. The Canes went 14-6-2 to close last season after Brindy's knee injury.

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I don't know for sure what the issues are with our Captain and our Future Capt but I know that Staal isn't playing like he cares... Reaching for pucks instead of taking the extra stride with his legs, not getting back on D, etc... and Rod is most certainly not keeping up at all.

So let me try to put this in practical terms... My two cars are not running right.... Car1 (I call it Staalsey) can go 100MPH for 2 hours and perform flawlessly but the next day I take it out of the garage it sputters and coughs and wheezes along at 15MPH while traffic is whizzing by. It clearly has the ability to be a sports car but it needs some time off and a good tuneup. I think I need to leave it the garage for a week or two to let its rest and maybe get it worked on because what I am doing now isn't working and risks damaging the car.

Car2 ( My Hot Rod) Seems to have a flat tire and has trouble keeping up. It leaves the stoplight first but when up to speed gradually gets left behind. Solution??? Park it for a while reinflate the tire and check and see if it holds air. If that doesn't work I can continue to drive my car on short slow trips where speed isn't a requirement.

I really don't think that Rod would wind up -63 but it is very obvious to me that something needs to change with his play.

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As of today and out of 703 NHL players, Rod Brind'Amour is LAST in the entire league with +/-

:angry: :angry: :angry:

He rates -16

For all those that have defended and excused our "captain" for his subpar defensive play, where are you now???? Do you now get it???? If he's that hurt, he needs to sit, but Im not buying that at all.

For every point he puts on the board, he costs us one. And dont use the "stats are decieving" excuse. In this case, the stats tell the whole story. If his minus was under 10, the stats could be a little scewed but you cant run anywhere from -16.

He is not playing any different than he did last season BEFORE the knee injury, he was at least covered by other scoring forwards. No more excuses, something needs to be done here! I dont have anything personal against the guy but he's costing this team wins.

Offense and leadership should begin and end with him. :angry:

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And as of today and out of 703 NHL players, Rod Brind'Amour is FIRST in the entire league in FACEOFFS

+/- is just one stat, maybe you need to look at the whole picture.

I have. What good is winning the faceoff if you cant keep possession of the puck, cant pass the puck and cant keep it in the offensive zone? Winning the draw is only the first part.

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I have. What good is winning the faceoff if you cant keep possession of the puck, cant pass the puck and cant keep it in the offensive zone? Winning the draw is only the first part.

So you want him to not only win the faceoff, but pass the puck to himself and skate around looking for someone to pass to? There are 4 other guys contributing....or not contributing in this case so don't blame Roddy or his +/- for that. I'm as baffled as you are as to why we can't hang onto the puck as a team.

Look, I'm not going to say he's playing great. I'm just not ready to throw him under the bus like you and others. He's only a small part of why this team is right now a .500 type team. If they don't start playing their style of hockey for 60 minutes, they're going to keep losing games.

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So you want him to not only win the faceoff, but pass the puck to himself and skate around looking for someone to pass to? There are 4 other guys contributing....or not contributing in this case so don't blame Roddy or his +/- for that. I'm as baffled as you are as to why we can't hang onto the puck as a team.

Look, I'm not going to say he's playing great. I'm just not ready to throw him under the bus like you and others. He's only a small part of why this team is right now a .500 type team. If they don't start playing their style of hockey for 60 minutes, they're going to keep losing games.

No, Im happy he's winning faceoffs but yes, I do expect that when he is the guy carrying in the puck that he can hold onto it, and that when he passes the puck to the wingers that he actually passes it to the guys wearing the same jersey as him. I dont expect him to win all the battles for the puck but expect him to at least try. I expect him to raise the level of his play and effort every game so as to "lead by example" (old cliche). I expect him to skate like hell defensively when the puck has been turned over to help out the dmen and goalie just left hung out to dry every time, not just once or twice a game.

And if my expectations of the 2 time selke winning future Hall of Fame captain are too high, then I have little to no expectations left for this team. He is not only a small part of this team, he is the captain and the leader of this team and everything he does and says has a direct effect on this team. He is responsible for firing this team up on and off the ice and if he's not fired up or ready to go because he's hurt or whatever, the rest of the team wont be either.

They cant hang onto the puck because they are being pushed off the puck to easily, outhustled and outworked. An average defense can disrupt their game and an average goalie can stop all their shots because few are quality shots. When they're hitting and attacking in the offensive zone, they can be a force to be wreckoned with but we dont see that much do we?

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No, Im happy he's winning faceoffs but yes, I do expect that when he is the guy carrying in the puck that he can hold onto it, and that when he passes the puck to the wingers that he actually passes it to the guys wearing the same jersey as him. I dont expect him to win all the battles for the puck but expect him to at least try. I expect him to raise the level of his play and effort every game so as to "lead by example" (old cliche). I expect him to skate like hell defensively when the puck has been turned over to help out the dmen and goalie just left hung out to dry every time, not just once or twice a game.

And if my expectations of the 2 time selke winning future Hall of Fame captain are too high, then I have little to no expectations left for this team. He is not only a small part of this team, he is the captain and the leader of this team and everything he does and says has a direct effect on this team. He is responsible for firing this team up on and off the ice and if he's not fired up or ready to go because he's hurt or whatever, the rest of the team wont be either.

They cant hang onto the puck because they are being pushed off the puck to easily, outhustled and outworked. An average defense can disrupt their game and an average goalie can stop all their shots because few are quality shots. When they're hitting and attacking in the offensive zone, they can be a force to be wreckoned with but we dont see that much do we?

As far as Rod goes, I think he's playing as well as he can based on his recovery from ACL surgery. His PK and defense have gotten better lately and I think he will continue to get better as the season progresses. If you haven't had ACL reconstruction, and I have, it takes a LONG time to recover, if you ever do get back to 100%. The ACL itself may heal, but the other damage like meniscus tears are a big problem. I'm not giving up on The Captain, and hopefully you and others won't either.

Look at Kaberle. Everone was throwing him under the bus, wanting him traded etc. but he was playing great this year till he got hurt. It basically took him most of the year to recover from a serious injury and it may take Rod that much time as well.

As far as your comments on overall team play, I can't argue with that at all. Other than a few brilliant stretches here and there when they dominate like the 'Canes of old, they are completely out of sync, and getting out played, out hustled, out hit, pretty much out everything.

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Are you joking?

Seriously you must be joking. The Canes went 14-6-2 to close last season after Brindy's knee injury.

while i agree that we could be a playoff team without brindy....i dont think you can use those stats to show what the world is like without brindy. those stats from last year were based on the fact that Staal was playing like a madman (unless you are the phoenix coyotes, not so much), Sammy was a man on a mission (once again, not so much now), corvo was lights out from the blue line (unless you are ottawa, no again for this year), we had some guys from albany that did their part to help out last year in borer, aucoin, bayda, and conboy (with the exception of bayda who is doing his job, aucoin is playing in hershey pa now, conboy and borer are just hanging out in albany as of now). maybe staal does play better without brindy in the lineup.....my question is why???? why not play that way now??? it didnt seem to phase him in 2006. just a thought.

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If Brindy needs to heal a little, call Helminen back up and let the captain rest. With the exception of Williams and Eaves, this everybody else is back. Sutter can pick up some of the slack, and personally, I'd like to see what he can do with a little more ice time. Helminen has shown that he is capable.

I would assume that at this point in Brindy's career, he could do with a couple of games off to heal from time to time.

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Can we take a poll to see which person on these boards gets to go personally tell Brind'Amour that he can't play?

It's got to be someone calling for him to sit!

Isn't that the coach's job?

I'm not saying that he can't play. We do know that his play this season is not up to the level that we (or he) is used to seeing. We also know that he had a major reconstructive knee surgery and a follow up procedure done. It isn't a great leap of reasoning to assume that the two may be related and he may be experiencing some difficulty. Early in the season, we had so many injuries that he had to play through whatever may have been bothering him. All I'm saying is that IF he is having trouble, give it a rest and let the man heal. I would imagine that it is more frustrating for him than for us that he is at the bottom of the +/_ for the league, especially with his resumee.

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Isn't that the coach's job?

I'm not saying that he can't play. We do know that his play this season is not up to the level that we (or he) is used to seeing. We also know that he had a major reconstructive knee surgery and a follow up procedure done. It isn't a great leap of reasoning to assume that the two may be related and he may be experiencing some difficulty. Early in the season, we had so many injuries that he had to play through whatever may have been bothering him. All I'm saying is that IF he is having trouble, give it a rest and let the man heal. I would imagine that it is more frustrating for him than for us that he is at the bottom of the +/_ for the league, especially with his resumee.

I'm sorry I didn't precede my statement with a sarcasm alert.

BTW Brind'Amour was not on the ice for either Philly goal...Hooray!

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-2 against Philly last night. We lose. -2 against Pit the game before that. We lose. -2 against Anaheim. We lose. That's a whopping -6 in the last three games all of them losses. His -22 is by far the worst in the league and over twice as bad as the second worst on the team (Whitney with -10).

Why is he still playing almost 20 minutes per game?

With those numbers why is he playing at all?

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With those numbers why is he playing at all?

Since you think this stat is so important, let's focus on last nights game. Exactly what did Rod do that lead to those goals against that make you want him out of the game? Please enlighten me and help me understand why so many people think this stat makes a difference. Why is this stat so important, obviously much more important than the other elements he brought to the game last night. He had a good game, a very good game. He had some very good scoring opportunities last night and couldn't find the back of the net. I'm not holding that against him because that's everyone's problem right now. If you want to call him on it fine, but add the others to the list as well.

Maybe it was the way he looked at Pitkanen that caused him to allow that shorty? He lost the last faceoff. That must be it! Get rid of him because after all it really does not matter that Leighton was not prepared for that shot. If Rod can't win all his faceoffs then waive him! Good grief this thread is maddening. Has Rod been playing up to his potential? Nope. But to ask why is he playing at all based on +/- ? Please explain to me how you tie that -2 last night to Rod's play based on something other than "he was on the ice".

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Since you think this stat is so important, let's focus on last nights game. Exactly what did Rod do that lead to those goals against that make you want him out of the game? Please enlighten me and help me understand why so many people think this stat makes a difference. Why is this stat so important, obviously much more important than the other elements he brought to the game last night. He had a good game, a very good game. He had some very good scoring opportunities last night and couldn't find the back of the net. I'm not holding that against him because that's everyone's problem right now. If you want to call him on it fine, but add the others to the list as well.

Maybe it was the way he looked at Pitkanen that caused him to allow that shorty? He lost the last faceoff. That must be it! Get rid of him because after all it really does not matter that Leighton was not prepared for that shot. If Rod can't win all his faceoffs then waive him! Good grief this thread is maddening. Has Rod been playing up to his potential? Nope. But to ask why is he playing at all based on +/- ? Please explain to me how you tie that -2 last night to Rod's play based on something other than "he was on the ice".

So it's just a coincidence that Rod always seems to be on the ice when they score? How is +/- relevant? It means quite simply that Rod was on the ice for 22 more goals against than he was for goals scored. That doesn't mean that every goal scored against when he's on the ice is his fault. But at the same time every goal we score while he's on the ice isn't because of him. Those tend to balance each other out. What's left, is a good representation of how a player is playing defense. In this case, +/- only supports what we've been seeing all year from Brind'Amour. He's slow, out of the play, and missing defensive plays that he should easily make consistently. You'll notice that John and Tripp are even starting to notice his misplays. Last night, we had a d-man pinching and Tripp called Rod out for not staying back on defense. The result? There was an odd man rush for the Flyers. Luckily, on that situation they were unable to score.

About the two goals last night. The first can't be blamed on Rod. The second is a combination of mistakes. The job of a person taking the faceoff is to either get the puck or tie up his man. Brind'Amour did neither and a shot resulted that Leights should have had. Two mistakes in that play, one by Rod. A well earned -.

Name another player on this team that could have a -22 right now and still be playing? There isn't one. Rod is playing simply because he is the captain and a player who was once dominant defensively. He's not that player any more. Sad, but why continue letting him play and hurting the team? I hope he turns things around. He's one of my favorite players, one heck of a leader, and a great guy. But he's hurting the team. You don't even need to look at +/- to see that. His sluggish skating and bad positioning make him stick out like a sore thumb.

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Examples? On the game-winning goal last night, Rod not only lost the face off, but failed to tie up Carter. He was just watching Carter wheel around and rip off a shot. He needs to look in the mirror. Neither he nor his supposed heir apparent are playing up to their potential. This isn't a recent slump for Brindy - he's been looking like he's in a fog for the past two seasons.

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I've been really patient with him thinking that it's only a matter of time before he regains his defensive dominance but enough is enough. He's just not skating. He's not making plays on the defensive end and looks completely out of place out there. The -10 speaks for itself. He's been terrible this year. He always seems to be there watching the other team score when I see replays of the goals. I'm seeing no effort or hustle in his play. This is so not like him. I wonder if he is still recovering from his injury? Or maybe he's just getting old and lost his hustle? Either way he's hurting the team. It really pains me to say this because he's one of my favorite players and the captain. But I think that Lavi should bench him a few games.

This was written almost exactly one month ago. Many wrote in saying that it was just a statistical annomaly and that it didn't mean anything. Afterall, +/- has many factors. Well, it's one month later and the numbers are actually worse. Brind'Amour is now on pace to go -69 for the season. This was a good observation by ncz82 and time has shown that this is not a fluke. I guess we just keep waiting and looking for little signs that he is back. Meanwhile the +/- and the losses keep piling up.

Of course the other piece is Staal as my thread below (and now the News and Observer) points out.

It is a tough problem though, with no easy solutions, so we fired the coach.

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Regardless, none of this convinces me that Rod's +/- means squat. Eric Staal is a + 8 - that also means squat to me as that is not reflective of his play either. It make him statistically better than what I have seen on the ice. Whitney is a -10 and isn't he our leading scorer? My point is the +/- alone should not the be only factor in judging a forwards performance. Eaves is a +3 - would you say his performance is that much better than Rod's? Brookbank is a +1. I am by no means saying Rod has been performing well, he's been crapola for the most part but there are factors that this single stat doesn't pick up. There are plenty of negative things that can be said about Rod's play and I wouldn't defend them, I just think it's silly to make the +/- the main point. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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Regardless, none of this convinces me that Rod's +/- means squat. Eric Staal is a + 8 - that also means squat to me as that is not reflective of his play either. It make him statistically better than what I have seen on the ice. Whitney is a -10 and isn't he our leading scorer? My point is the +/- alone should not the be only factor in judging a forwards performance. Eaves is a +3 - would you say his performance is that much better than Rod's? Brookbank is a +1. I am by no means saying Rod has been performing well, he's been crapola for the most part but there are factors that this single stat doesn't pick up. There are plenty of negative things that can be said about Rod's play and I wouldn't defend them, I just think it's silly to make the +/- the main point. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I could care less about his +/-. Rod has 19+ minutes and is the worst player on the ice not to mention our Captain.

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I could care less about his +/-. Rod has 19+ minutes and is the worst player on the ice not to mention our Captain.

So then why are you quoting me? My point was in response to a post asking why Rod is still on the ice and the poster used only his +/- for the past few games as the reference. I am discussing the use of the +/-, not the play of the guy in question. If you don't care about the +/- there is no connection to your point and mine. As I stated, I am not defending his play and I stating there is a much stronger case to be made without using THAT stat. Even without specifics, your post makes more sense than the others who seem to think the +/- really matters and I have already stated why I think thing that way. I have said by peace about the stat and I have nothing more to say so carry on.....

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Since you think this stat is so important, let's focus on last nights game. Exactly what did Rod do that lead to those goals against that make you want him out of the game?

I can tell ya on the game winner it was directly if not completely his fault. Lost the faceoff, didnt tie up the opposing centermen and the centermen got control of the puck and fired it on goal within 2 seconds of the puck drop.

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