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micheelob

Ward is average at best!

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Its been rough but I'm not willing to sell him down the river or dredge up an old thread just to make a point.   Last season he showed he can carry this team a  long way when others are doing their part too, it wasn't until he got injured that his play faltered in the playoffs.  No goal support and no defense is what lost games the first month and a half of this season, not goaltending.  This season he was doing his part until the total team collapse during that 14 game "winless streak."  Cam was the only reason this team was in any game for the first part of this awful season.  

Sure he's looked shaky at times since coming back from his injury but that was close to a career ending injury and he came back ahead of schedule.  Add to that the fact that he's added new equipment thats changed the way he plays the position and the fact that the team in front of him only plays for about 10 minutes per game and you have a goalie who's going to have a long readjustment period to get himself back to where he needs to be.  He's shown glimmers of brilliance along with his less than perfect play but as long as the good starts to outweigh the bad, I'll be satisfyed we're heading in the right direction.  The good news is that since the Canes are pretty much done for the season, he can take his time getting re-acclimated to his full time job and get used to playing with his new guards without the pressure of making the playoffs.

If someone wants to blame Cam Ward and isolate him as the main problem for this team, thats their call but in a season where there's plenty of blame to go around for all the shortcomings, Cam Ward is the least of my concerns.  I guess someone has to be the goat this week, why not Cam.  Its been a while since he's taken the fall for all the Canes woes.  rolleyes.gif

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Yep here we go again. I wish he was playing UP to "Average At Best". He wasn't playing well before the injury and now he is "supposedly" back to 100% and if thats the facts,, he is not the Goalie he used to be or the goalie we thought he would become. This is , what three years in a row now that he has not gotten much better? Yep I know I'm  Cam Bashing again but  it is well deserved,,, IMO

While I agree Cam has played fairly piss poor this season, he is by no means the only one.  Everyone has sucked, players suck, coach sucks, system sucks.  This team is snake bitten.  I think they'll be a contender next year, but when, and only when, Paul Maurice is fired 

  

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You've got to be kidding bringing this back. With the likes of A. Ward, the AHL shuffle, and no Corvo (who played way below par prior to injury) Cam Ward is the last place I'd look to blame for anything.

IMO Cam is the team's best player, yes including Staal. After the initial thud while getting acquainted with Barrasso he has been outstanding (see last year and the ECF run). Let's run him out of town and truly start all over. Yikes!

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[quote name=wink.gifTSA]Its been rough but I'm not willing to sell him down the river or dredge up an old thread just to make a point.   Last season he showed he can carry this team a  long way when others are doing their part too, it wasn't until he got injured that his play faltered in the playoffs.  No goal support and no defense is what lost games the first month and a half of this season, not goaltending.  This season he was doing his part until the total team collapse during that 14 game "winless streak."  Cam was the only reason this team was in any game for the first part of this awful season.  

Sure he's looked shaky at times since coming back from his injury but that was close to a career ending injury and he came back ahead of schedule.  Add to that the fact that he's added new equipment thats changed the way he plays the position and the fact that the team in front of him only plays for about 10 minutes per game and you have a goalie who's going to have a long readjustment period to get himself back to where he needs to be.  He's shown glimmers of brilliance along with his less than perfect play but as long as the good starts to outweigh the bad, I'll be satisfyed we're heading in the right direction.  The good news is that since the Canes are pretty much done for the season, he can take his time getting re-acclimated to his full time job and get used to playing with his new guards without the pressure of making the playoffs.

If someone wants to blame Cam Ward and isolate him as the main problem for this team, thats their call but in a season where there's plenty of blame to go around for all the shortcomings, Cam Ward is the least of my concerns.  I guess someone has to be the goat this week, why not Cam.  Its been a while since he's taken the fall for all the Canes woes.  rolleyes.gifCall me a DREDGER or whatever you want ,, to make my point, but with that being said in itself shows there was a point to be made about Cams play.

    So with you being an "EYE-ROLLER"rolleyes.gif or excuse maker for him, his play over the last how many years isn't out-weighed by his good little run  @ the end of last year. The entire team made that run just not Cam. I would love him to prove me wrong but i don't think he will be the goalie we had hoped he would. And yes the entire team IS the Goat and he is not just a fall guy but if you can't see that his play is not what it should be,maybe with all the "eyerolling" you might need to get your eyes checked so you can see what right in front of you!blink.gifshock.gifwink.gif

  

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djharley wrote:

Call me a DREDGER or whatever you want ,, to make my point, but with that being said in itself shows there was a point to be made about Cams play.

    So with you being an "EYE-ROLLER"
rolleyes.gif
 or excuse maker for him, his play over the last how many years isn't out-weighed by his good little run  @ the end of last year. The entire team made that run just not Cam. 

  

So to make sure I have this right, when the team went on that great run last season it was all about the entire team, but when they've stunk it up, it falls on Cam Ward and not the entire team?  Kind of like you're willing to give LaRose a pass this season because of his injury and that fact that he "might not be fitting into the system."    Cam's coming back from a worse injury and until Mo came in last season a reeled in the defense, the system of odd man rushes and defensive breakdowns wasnt exactly helping Cam fit in either.

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[quote name='TSA wrote:


djharley']

Call me a DREDGER or whatever you want ,, to make my point, but with that being said in itself shows there was a point to be made about Cams play.

    So with you being an "EYE-ROLLER"
rolleyes.gif
 or excuse maker for him, his play over the last how many years isn't out-weighed by his good little run  @ the end of last year. The entire team made that run just not Cam. 

and as far as Larose goes, i didn't bring it up here,because that would be off topic,I gave my opinion about that in the LaRose thread!

  

So to make sure I have this right, when the team went on that great run last season it was all about the entire team, but when they've stunk it up, it falls on Cam Ward and not the entire team?  Kind of like you're willing to give LaRose a pass this season because of his injury and that fact that he "might not be fitting into the system."    Cam's coming back from a worse injury and until Mo came in last season a reeled in the defense, the system of odd man rushes and defensive breakdowns wasnt exactly helping Cam fit in either.

Nope that isn't what i am saying, but you have to admit Cam isn't where he should be. Plus the fact that you put it all on Cam ,that he was the one that made the team get into the playoffs.The reason i brought ( or Dredged as you put it)this back up is because it's been a concern about Cam for many years now, not just this year or from the injury!

  

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Nope that isn't what i am saying, but you have to admit Cam isn't where he should be. Plus the fact that you put it all on Cam ,that he was the one that made the team get into the playoffs.The reason i brought ( or Dredged as you put it)this back up is because it's been a concern about Cam for many years now, not just this year or from the injury!

  

I dont think anyone has claimed that Cam is exactly where he needs to be right now but at least a few of us are willing to factor in the fact that the team is just awful in front of him at times and it will take some time to come back 100% from his injury.    

TSA wrote:

Its been rough but I'm not willing to sell him down the river or dredge up an old thread just to make a point.   Last season he showed he can carry this team a  long way when others are doing their part too, it wasn't until he got injured that his play faltered in the playoffs.  No goal support and no defense is what lost games the first month and a half of this season, not goaltending.  This season he was doing his part until the total team collapse during that 14 game "winless streak."  Cam was the only reason this team was in any game for the first part of this awful season.  

Where exactly did I say Cam was the one who made them get into the playoffs?

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[quote name='djharley wrote:


TSA wrote:

djharley']

Call me a DREDGER or whatever you want ,, to make my point, but with that being said in itself shows there was a point to be made about Cams play.

    So with you being an "EYE-ROLLER"
rolleyes.gif
 or excuse maker for him, his play over the last how many years isn't out-weighed by his good little run  @ the end of last year. The entire team made that run just not Cam. 

and as far as Larose goes, i didn't bring it up here,because that would be off topic,I gave my opinion about that in the LaRose thread!

  

So to make sure I have this right, when the team went on that great run last season it was all about the entire team, but when they've stunk it up, it falls on Cam Ward and not the entire team?  Kind of like you're willing to give LaRose a pass this season because of his injury and that fact that he "might not be fitting into the system."    Cam's coming back from a worse injury and until Mo came in last season a reeled in the defense, the system of odd man rushes and defensive breakdowns wasnt exactly helping Cam fit in either.

Nope that isn't what i am saying, but you have to admit Cam isn't where he should be. Plus the fact that you put it all on Cam ,that he was the one that made the team get into the playoffs.The reason i brought ( or Dredged as you put it)this back up is because it's been a concern about Cam for many years now, not just this year or from the injury!

  I agree with a lot of your opinions, but you are way off base here.  It's very true that Cam is an above average goalie, without him our GF vs. GA would be more out of whack than it is.  I was sitting on the glass against the Rangers on the 21st and without Cam being an above average goalie we would have easily lost that game 7-1 or 5-1.  Our defense struggled and allowed Gaborik and the rest of the Rangers point blank chances time after time.  I use this game as an example of what was happening earlier in the season and in years past.  Does Cam have a bad game here and there?  YES!  Aren't we all human?  YES!

I wouldn't trade Cam for any other goalie in the NHL...he, along with Ryan Miller, are probably the best YOUNG goalies in the league.  He is going to get better barring any major injury and like TSA said, he is getting used to new equipment. 

Seriously, he is the least of our problems.  Greater problems lie in our overall team age, defense, and system.  Changes need to be made, but Cam is not one of them.

  

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[quote name='TSA wrote:


djharley']

Nope that isn't what i am saying, but you have to admit Cam isn't where he should be. Plus the fact that you put it all on Cam ,that he was the one that made the team get into the playoffs.The reason i brought ( or Dredged as you put it)this back up is because it's been a concern about Cam for many years now, not just this year or from the injury!

  

I dont think anyone has claimed that Cam is exactly where he needs to be right now but at least a few of us are willing to factor in the fact that the team is just awful in front of him at times and it will take some time to come back 100% from his injury.    

TSA wrote:

Its been rough but I'm not willing to sell him down the river or dredge up an old thread just to make a point.   Last season he showed he can carry this team a  long way when others are doing their part too, it wasn't until he got injured that his play faltered in the playoffs.  No goal support and no defense is what lost games the first month and a half of this season, not goaltending.  This season he was doing his part until the total team collapse during that 14 game "winless streak."  Cam was the only reason this team was in any game for the first part of this awful season.  

Where exactly did I say Cam was the one who made them get into the playoffs?

When you said about the team making a run last year,but insinuated that i wanted to blame Cam for all the problems this year!That was my take on it!

  

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Ward just looks tired.

The Canes have to remember that they suddenly have a capable backup who CAN come in and give Ward a rest now and then.

I figured once they kept Legace up, he'd get 1/3 or 2/5 starts. There's no reason to play Ward for these long stretches. No sense of playing him into the ground before we even hit February. Rest him every few games. It'd help him stay fresh just in case the Canes do somehow pull of a miracle run in the second half. [And trust me, that can happen. Just see last year's St. Louis Blues.]

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Everyday I read the boards I find at least 10 stupid things that people say and I ask myself where these people come from and what the hell are they watching. But today I have found a post that has topped them all. DJHarley you my friend need psychiatric help if Cam still hasn't proven himself to you. In fact you should go be a fan of the flyers because then your opinions would be valid because they can't buy an average goalie to save their lives, I mean now they think Leighton is the answer. Mods please lock this thread so that it never comes back i thought it got annoying last year and the fact that its back is absurd.

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.

When we aren't critical enough on our team or players, the arguement is that a "real hockey town" wouldn't put up with the stuff that we do.

When we are critical of our team or players, the arguement is that since we aren't a "real hockey town" that we don't know what we are talking about or that we should cut them some slack and not try to be like the other towns.

Sure there are plenty of crazy ideas floating around out there, but just because you don't agree with an opinion doesn't make you right.  I'm not in the "Cam's average at best" camp, but I respect the opinions of those who are and welcome their input.  Nobody is going to have any opinion that everyone is going to agree with. 

  

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First, the "AVERAGE AT BEST" line cannot be making a comeback? Really?

That line drives me crazy because when it was initially posted Cam was average at best, but it has been dragged out so many times, including when he was stellar at worst that if anybody is tired it is that line. You want to know what's not even close to average? This team. And that was just as terrible with Cam out with injury.

Now, with that out of my system. A goalie is very dependent on the team around him, and yet, that goalie still has to play well. Marty Brodeur may well be the best goalie in history, but he has benefited from years of defensively sound players and system in front of him.

Yes, a team can definitely overachieve with a hot goalie, but what we really want is a stellar team with a stellar goalie who is as good as the team. That's what happened at the end of last year. Cam doesn't get it done without dramatically improved team play, but the team clearly doesn't go deep with a different goalie either. The way Cam played at the end of last year is much more telling than anything happening in this debacle of a year. Cam actually started the year well stealing and almost stealing a few games despite a simply terrible team in front of him. Then he let down a bit and then the injury calls off all bets. Two deep playoff runs including a Stanely Cup shows what Cam is capable of if the team shows up.

The Cam at the end of last year and into the playoffs was top 5. Almost no soft goals and many stellar saves. Staal is not the problem. Cam is not the problem. Once Cam gets back from the injury fully, gets used to the equipment, he will be ready if he gets a team that is even average at best.

See I can't help but want to use that grating line. It just sits there egging me on.

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  Cam Ward is the franchise.  No ifs, ands or buts about it.  I am looking forward to watching him play for the next 10-12 years.  Anyone who watches more than a little hockey can see that he is most certainly NOT an average talent.  The kid is 25 years old and has already won 1 Stanley Cup, 1 Conn Smyth, several game 7's (including a game 7 for the cup).  That is the definition of clutch. What is average about that?  There are only 3 or 4 goaltenders in the last 20 years that can boast that kind of resume and most of them are hall of fame locks or at least in the discussion.  Think about it.  The team is having an off year and his D is playing like absolute junk in front of him. Give the kid a break.

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  Cam Ward is the franchise.  No ifs, ands or buts about it.  I am looking forward to watching him play for the next 10-12 years.  Anyone who watches more than a little hockey can see that he is most certainly NOT an average talent.  The kid is 25 years old and has already won 1 Stanley Cup, 1 Conn Smyth, several game 7's (including a game 7 for the cup).  That is the definition of clutch. What is average about that?  There are only 3 or 4 goaltenders in the last 20 years that can boast that kind of resume and most of them are hall of fame locks or at least in the discussion.  Think about it.  The team is having an off year and his D is playing like absolute junk in front of him. Give the kid a break.
Couldn't have said it better....you nailed it. Cam Ward IS the best player on the canes. Not the no-skill, overpaid center-turned-right winger that is supposed to be the future captain of this team. God, I hope JR rethinks that and makes Gleason the captain, but Ward is the best player on this team. When we dump A. Ward, and Wallin and get a couple of good defensemen this should solidify the back line. Like Carson's play but let's get some more guys up from Albany that can start playing at the NHL level and be ready to go next year.

  

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Hey remkin,

As the originator of this thread way back in January, I want to apologize to you for creating the "Average at Best" line that seems to irk you to no end. So sorry! Who knows, maybe it was this thread that caused Cam to get extra motivated and play like an elite goaltender down the stretch last year. It was a fun ride!

This year, our whole team has been lousy. Would it make you feel better if I started a new thread "A. Ward is average at best"? smile.gif

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Hey remkin,

As the originator of this thread way back in January, I want to apologize to you for creating the "Average at Best" line that seems to irk you to no end. So sorry! Who knows, maybe it was this thread that caused Cam to get extra motivated and play like an elite goaltender down the stretch last year. It was a fun ride!

This year, our whole team has been lousy. Would it make you feel better if I started a new thread "A. Ward is average at best"? smile.gif

It wasn't so bad when you first posted it. In fact it clearly had a lot of traction and fired up a lot of debate. What first annoyed me was that even though it was true at the time, people dragged it out over and over once Cam was playing better as a way to "cleverly" contradict those who could see the plain truth that at the time it was written Cam was actually considerably below average. Over a period of time to paraphrase a line from Monty Python, "He got better".

But then the phrase started to get soooooo overused and tired and predictable that it was like a bad joke that everyone already knew the punchline to but a few people just had to keep telling. Then, finally, almost unbelievably, it faded away. Until now, when back from the grave like Freddy Kruger it reappears. And it is still getting played like it's some kind of brilliantly clever punchline. It is tired now. It want's to go to sleep. A lonnngggg deeeeeeep permanent sleeeeeeeeep.

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Cam, when he is on is one of the best. However, he has been maddeningly inconsistent. The Philadelphia game was an example. He was stellar in the thrid period, yet looked pathetic in the shootout. I hope he plays closer to his potential game in and mame out in the future. That will make him an elite goalie in the class of Martin Brodeur.

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Have to agree with Remkin on this one.  This whole "Cam is average at best" thing is well beyond a cliche.  I'll find a way to work through the "average" and "inconsistent" times, injuries or not.  The man is clutch in crunch time.  He's proven it.

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WArd is one of my favorite players and I believe he is way above average. Injuries like his are hard to get over immediately and I think he's dcoming back into form. No goalie is going to be "great" every night and they all occasionally let in a soft goal or two. It's the nature of the game and the position. I do feel however that Cam needs extra work on his shootout performances. He commits way too early everytime. He's got to have one of the worse records of any starting goalie. If he can improve on this aspect of his game, he'll be much more complete.

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Cam is also getting used to wearing extra pads to protect the area where he has been cut twice now.  If you read interviews with him, he says that he realizes that the last injury could have been a career ending one and has decided to wear the extra gear rather than risk getting cut like that again.  He also said it was taking some getting used to playing with the extra padding because it is harder to feel movement (which is why he never wore them previously).

He is our best player and once he is 100% comfortable being back out on the ice after being out so long with an injury (and learning to move with new gear on) he will get back in the groove and be the same awesome Cam he has always been.  Every goalie/player has a bad game here and there, they are only human, and you can’t expect them to be perfect all the time.

I think the mods need to lock this thread soon; it’s beginning to become monotonous.

blah2.gif

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