Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
clementnorman

money and the playoffs

Recommended Posts

As far as our signings this offseason, we have a few who need to be resigned. Ruutu (RFA), Jokinen (RFA), Cam Ward (RFA) and LaRose (UFA) I hope will all be resigned. Babchuk (RFA), Bayda (UFA), and Leighton (UFA) are kinda on the fence... I'd love to see them back, but we'll see. Siedenburg also would like to see him back. Based on their play late in the season and playoffs, i would almost guarantee Ruutu, Jokinen and LaRose will all resign, and of course Cam will get resigned.. him and Staal are the franchise players.

FYI Leighton is under contract next year. He's not a free agent until 2010.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FYI Leighton is under contract next year. He's not a free agent until 2010.

Then Cam has got another year too since he was RFA same year Leighton was UFA... since I know I screwed up the chart I'll have to look at it again.

Ok..we'll try this again.

Ruutu, RFA next year. Jokinen RFA next year. LaRose UFA next year. Cole UFA next year. Bayda UFA next year. Siedenberg UFA next year. Babchuk RFA next year.

Leighton, Ward, Whitney, Cullen, Walker all have 1 year left. Everyone else (Staal, Brindamour, Pitkanen, Samsonov, Gleason, Eaves, Sutter) have multiple years left.

Ruutu, Jokinen, LaRose and Siedenburg all need to be resigned. Time will tell for Cole, Bayda and Babchuk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does a player get a bonus for scoring in the last min of a playoff game? :P;)

if they did then Gleason, Wallin, and Jussi would be making the big bucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i know we wont get a second rounder for kabs. i meant kabs along with our second rounder for a second pairing defensmen. the reason i say throw the second rounder in is because someone will need incentive to take on his contract with lack of production.

Sorry about misreading. I wondered who would think we'd get a 2 for Kabs.

we tried to trade him 3 times during the past season and had no takers so who would you recommend trading him to?

We didn't try to trade him 3 times, we tried to give him away 3 times. That tells you what the league thinks of him. We are going to have to sweeten the pot to move him or take on a bigger contract someone is trying to dump.

While you guys are deciding whether Brindy will retire or not, I think it's just as likely Walker may retire. He's had a rough couple of seasons with injuries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Canes regular season revenues were up this year due to the increase in ticket prices. From what I've heard, the team was pleased with the results. The playoffs only make the situation better. STH sales will be a factor, but player payroll should have some ability to increase above this year's number. This year the team targeted about $51 mil from what I could tell, so maybe $52.5 is there for next year.

The Canes are around $38 mil tied up for next year already (includes Sutter and Bowman on roster and Conboy's 1-way).

Bring back Ruutu @ 3.2, Jokinen @ 2.1, Rosey @1.6, and Babchuk @1.6 and fill a D-spot with McBain/Carson/Rodney for a total of $9 mil and the team still has 5.5 mil to spend. I think it is essential to bring back Jokinen, a utility guy like that who can play on any line at any position is extremely valuable.

The decision with the remaining 5.5 would be to go after a top line forward or d-man. I'd go after Bouwmeester. Trade Corvo for picks or prospects, our system is sparse after the 3 fwds, McBain, and Murphy. Corvo is $2.75, added to the $5.5 above, that's $8.25. Use 6.25 of that to bring in Jay B. and that's a $50.5 mil payroll that includes Staal, Ward, and Jay B. Also leaves $2 mil below my projected Canes cap for other off season moves or mid-season deals and some wiggle room for the following off-season when Ward will be RFA. Imagine a team with a core of Staal, Jay B., and Cam for the next 5 years :) .

Would Jay B. come to Carolina? I don't know, but the Canes could be a team that would jump in the running although it would be uncharacteristic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Canes regular season revenues were up this year due to the increase in ticket prices. From what I've heard, the team was pleased with the results. The playoffs only make the situation better. STH sales will be a factor, but player payroll should have some ability to increase above this year's number. This year the team targeted about $51 mil from what I could tell, so maybe $52.5 is there for next year.

The Canes are around $38 mil tied up for next year already (includes Sutter and Bowman on roster and Conboy's 1-way).

Bring back Ruutu @ 3.2, Jokinen @ 2.1, Rosey @1.6, and Babchuk @1.6 and fill a D-spot with McBain/Carson/Rodney for a total of $9 mil and the team still has 5.5 mil to spend. I think it is essential to bring back Jokinen, a utility guy like that who can play on any line at any position is extremely valuable.

The decision with the remaining 5.5 would be to go after a top line forward or d-man. I'd go after Bouwmeester. Trade Corvo for picks or prospects, our system is sparse after the 3 fwds, McBain, and Murphy. Corvo is $2.75, added to the $5.5 above, that's $8.25. Use 6.25 of that to bring in Jay B. and that's a $50.5 mil payroll that includes Staal, Ward, and Jay B. Also leaves $2 mil below my projected Canes cap for other off season moves or mid-season deals and some wiggle room for the following off-season when Ward will be RFA. Imagine a team with a core of Staal, Jay B., and Cam for the next 5 years :) .

Would Jay B. come to Carolina? I don't know, but the Canes could be a team that would jump in the running although it would be uncharacteristic.

I agree that Jokinen has to be resigned.. he was pretty good in the second half of the regular season and he is on fire in the playoffs. I do have one question though? Why trade Corvo? In your opinion is he not producing? Or do you expect teams to snatch up an offensive defensemen (which I'm sure they would)? I'm not saying its a bad idea, just curious about your logic there.. personally I'd like to see him stay.

Corvo had 14 goals and 24 assists this season and a minus-1, a little under his Ottawa/Carolina combined numbers last year of 13 goals and 38 assists, but he was deadly on the PP with 8 PPG and 14 PPA. Compared to say Gleason at 0 goals, 12 assists and plus-3, Siedenberg with 5 goals and 25 assists, but a -9, and Pitkanen with 7 goals 26 assists and a plus-11. Corvo is probably our second best defensemen behind (surprise surprise) Joni. Is that why you trade him cause he's a Dman other teams would love to have? I just dont see trading a top pair defenseman. I know goals and assists are not all you look for in a dman, but he is a good offensive threat, especially on the point of the powerplay.. and we have good shutdown guys in Gleason, Wallin and Kabs. Oh, I left out Babchuck with 16 goals, 19 assists and a +13 with 9 PPG and 6PPA.. So maybe Corvo is third best?

I know he's playing on an anemic Florida team, but Bouwmeester this year had 15 goals, 24 assists and a -2. Not a huge improvement to give up Corvo. How do you solve a depth problem at forward by bringing in another defensemen... I don't follow the logic there. Try to bring in offense from the blueline? Then why give up Corvo?

You may know something about JayB I don't so let me know you logic behind that move other then freeing up cap space only to blow it on a UFA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree that Jokinen has to be resigned.. he was pretty good in the second half of the regular season and he is on fire in the playoffs. I do have one question though? Why trade Corvo? In your opinion is he not producing? Or do you expect teams to snatch up an offensive defensemen (which I'm sure they would)? I'm not saying its a bad idea, just curious about your logic there.. personally I'd like to see him stay.

Corvo had 14 goals and 24 assists this season and a minus-1, a little under his Ottawa/Carolina combined numbers last year of 13 goals and 38 assists, but he was deadly on the PP with 8 PPG and 14 PPA. Compared to say Gleason at 0 goals, 12 assists and plus-3, Siedenberg with 5 goals and 25 assists, but a -9, and Pitkanen with 7 goals 26 assists and a plus-11. Corvo is probably our second best defensemen behind (surprise surprise) Joni. Is that why you trade him cause he's a Dman other teams would love to have? I just dont see trading a top pair defenseman. I know goals and assists are not all you look for in a dman, but he is a good offensive threat, especially on the point of the powerplay.. and we have good shutdown guys in Gleason, Wallin and Kabs. Oh, I left out Babchuck with 16 goals, 19 assists and a +13 with 9 PPG and 6PPA.. So maybe Corvo is third best?

I know he's playing on an anemic Florida team, but Bouwmeester this year had 15 goals, 24 assists and a -2. Not a huge improvement to give up Corvo. How do you solve a depth problem at forward by bringing in another defensemen... I don't follow the logic there. Try to bring in offense from the blueline? Then why give up Corvo?

You may know something about JayB I don't so let me know you logic behind that move other then freeing up cap space only to blow it on a UFA.

jay b is to corvo. what staal is to cullen. i think thats a pretty good measurement. also you dont measure defense by offensive stats. that stuff is nice, but not how you rate a dmen. pitkanen is the third best defender overall IMO. corvo is first followed by gleason. pit is best skater stick handler and passer IMO. babchuk is probably 4-5 depending on your opinion of berg.

i also was wondering why you think we have a depth problem at forward. unless by prolem you mean to much quanity not enough quality. thats how i feel. walker and jokinen on the 4th line is not a team lacking in depth. plus bowman, sutter, and boychuk in the very near future. probably sutter and boychuk will be canes next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to throw in that I really do not think Brindy will retire this summer. If it weren't for his injuries at the start of the year, he would've been far more productive. He still led the league in FO% this season and I think he still has a lot left in the tank. IMO he just needs to lose a little muscle and gain some speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Canes regular season revenues were up this year due to the increase in ticket prices. From what I've heard, the team was pleased with the results. The playoffs only make the situation better. STH sales will be a factor, but player payroll should have some ability to increase above this year's number. This year the team targeted about $51 mil from what I could tell, so maybe $52.5 is there for next year.

The Canes are around $38 mil tied up for next year already (includes Sutter and Bowman on roster and Conboy's 1-way).

Bring back Ruutu @ 3.2, Jokinen @ 2.1, Rosey @1.6, and Babchuk @1.6 and fill a D-spot with McBain/Carson/Rodney for a total of $9 mil and the team still has 5.5 mil to spend. I think it is essential to bring back Jokinen, a utility guy like that who can play on any line at any position is extremely valuable.

The decision with the remaining 5.5 would be to go after a top line forward or d-man. I'd go after Bouwmeester. Trade Corvo for picks or prospects, our system is sparse after the 3 fwds, McBain, and Murphy. Corvo is $2.75, added to the $5.5 above, that's $8.25. Use 6.25 of that to bring in Jay B. and that's a $50.5 mil payroll that includes Staal, Ward, and Jay B. Also leaves $2 mil below my projected Canes cap for other off season moves or mid-season deals and some wiggle room for the following off-season when Ward will be RFA. Imagine a team with a core of Staal, Jay B., and Cam for the next 5 years :) .

Would Jay B. come to Carolina? I don't know, but the Canes could be a team that would jump in the running although it would be uncharacteristic.

Corvo is a bargain at 2.75 and I understand its nice to fantasize about who the Canes can potentially go after but there is no way that Bouwmeester comes here and for good reason. JR is a thrift shopper, this organization will struggle just to piece together a deep lineup with Cam and Staal signed long term at big money contracts.

Corvo is definitely a better stick handler, skater, and probably passer than Pitkanen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jay b is to corvo. what staal is to cullen. i think thats a pretty good measurement. also you dont measure defense by offensive stats. that stuff is nice, but not how you rate a dmen. pitkanen is the third best defender overall IMO. corvo is first followed by gleason. pit is best skater stick handler and passer IMO. babchuk is probably 4-5 depending on your opinion of berg.

i also was wondering why you think we have a depth problem at forward. unless by prolem you mean to much quanity not enough quality. thats how i feel. walker and jokinen on the 4th line is not a team lacking in depth. plus bowman, sutter, and boychuk in the very near future. probably sutter and boychuk will be canes next year.

Agreed, except I think that it will be either Sutter or Boychuk with both being natural centers and bowman a natural winger will be on the roster, just a guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Corvo is a bargain at 2.75 and I understand its nice to fantasize about who the Canes can potentially go after but there is no way that Bouwmeester comes here and for good reason. JR is a thrift shopper, this organization will struggle just to piece together a deep lineup with Cam and Staal signed long term at big money contracts.

I agree with all that you say here. Corvo is a bargain and why I think the Canes could get solid prospects or picks for him who in a few years would fill in and not cost what the vets cost. I like Corvo, I just like JayB more. And yes, it's fantasy to think JR would go high end. My team configuration is based on seeing that if the Canes basically let Cole and Seids walk they could go after a high end UFA even with their payroll limits. Making an intelligent trade could only help in that pursuit and filling in the depth of the team. What I like about Staal, Ward, and JayB is that not only are they elite at their positions, they are durable. IMO durability adds great value for the player and position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with all that you say here. Corvo is a bargain and why I think the Canes could get solid prospects or picks for him who in a few years would fill in and not cost what the vets cost. I like Corvo, I just like JayB more. And yes, it's fantasy to think JR would go high end. My team configuration is based on seeing that if the Canes basically let Cole and Seids walk they could go after a high end UFA even with their payroll limits. Making an intelligent trade could only help in that pursuit and filling in the depth of the team. What I like about Staal, Ward, and JayB is that not only are they elite at their positions, they are durable. IMO durability adds great value for the player and position.

too many high end, high money players leaves holes elsewhere in the lineup because of money restraints, these players can only be on the ice so much time, then youre left with low end players making no money to pull their weight. See Tampa. I'd rather see a team comprised of all solid players rather than a few elite players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They also wont have to worry about filling out the depth of the team through free agency/trades if they keep drafting respectably as they have been. Their depth will be home grown which this organization needs more than anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
too many high end, high money players leaves holes elsewhere in the lineup because of money restraints, these players can only be on the ice so much time, then youre left with low end players making no money to pull their weight. See Tampa. I'd rather see a team comprised of all solid players rather than a few elite players.

Again, won't disagree. IMO 3 top flight guys in their mid 20s forms a core to place the pieces around for years to come, not yet an overload in stars but it is what I consider the max and right mix. Adding an elite D-man would provide balance across positions for the Canes. The other team player pieces are where JR brings in his Jokinen's and Sammy's to solidify. IMO, to have a solid Cup contender, today's NHL is built this way. Ex: Pens, Caps, B's, and Wings (Wings may soon be top heavy and falter for it)...should I bother to say Sharks?

They also wont have to worry about filling out the depth of the team through free agency/trades if they keep drafting respectably as they have been. Their depth will be home grown which this organization needs more than anything.

Yes, want this to continue. It takes time. Canes are very thin at D in the system. Bringing in 1 UFA for D along with making a trade to bring in future talent would build for both next year and beyond, imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jay b is to corvo. what staal is to cullen. i think thats a pretty good measurement. also you dont measure defense by offensive stats. that stuff is nice, but not how you rate a dmen. pitkanen is the third best defender overall IMO. corvo is first followed by gleason. pit is best skater stick handler and passer IMO. babchuk is probably 4-5 depending on your opinion of berg.

i also was wondering why you think we have a depth problem at forward. unless by prolem you mean to much quanity not enough quality. thats how i feel. walker and jokinen on the 4th line is not a team lacking in depth. plus bowman, sutter, and boychuk in the very near future. probably sutter and boychuk will be canes next year.

I thought that's what Caniac007 was saying.. I believe I mis-read. When he said "our system is sparse after the 3 forwards" I think he meant our farm system, when I thought he meant like we had no one past Whitney Staal Cole.. or whatever.. I think that was a mis-read on my part.

So even if JayB is much better then Corvo, still why would you trade Corvo if he's our BEST dman. Wouldnt you want too have both Corvo and JayB?

I understand the goals and assists are not the be all end all for defensemen.. I think I said that in my last post, but you can't ignore Babchuk with 35 points and a +13 in 72 games. Corvo was the only Dman higher with 38 points in 82 games. Babchuk also scored 9 goals on the PP that he doesnt get a + for, so that +13 is huge for him, 7 of those 13 he scored himself, the rest he probably assisted on. I know Babs is not the best 5 on 5.. and he makes mistakes and turnovers, but he is a beast on the PP.. unfortunately in the playoffs our PP hasnt been very good, and we havent had many PP chances, but he hasnt played every game either.

If Bouwmeester is gonna command Eric Staal money (6mil+ a year) I don't see him playing here anyway. We wont pay that much, and some other team will offer him way more money we can afford to play in a more traditional market like Detroit, Montreal, Toronto etc. Knowing the way the upper management run this team its probably a moot point.. no one is gonna come in and get paid more then Staal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was watching a video on wral.com and JR made the statement that the franchise has almost broke even but not yet...need a few more playoff games.

Just thought that was interesting...JR sounded real positive though like this past regular season was a good one for attendance and all that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I thought that's what Caniac007 was saying.. I believe I mis-read. When he said "our system is sparse after the 3 forwards" I think he meant our farm system, when I thought he meant like we had no one past Whitney Staal Cole.. or whatever.. I think that was a mis-read on my part.

So even if JayB is much better then Corvo, still why would you trade Corvo if he's our BEST dman. Wouldnt you want too have both Corvo and JayB?

I understand the goals and assists are not the be all end all for defensemen.. I think I said that in my last post, but you can't ignore Babchuk with 35 points and a +13 in 72 games. Corvo was the only Dman higher with 38 points in 82 games. Babchuk also scored 9 goals on the PP that he doesnt get a + for, so that +13 is huge for him, 7 of those 13 he scored himself, the rest he probably assisted on. I know Babs is not the best 5 on 5.. and he makes mistakes and turnovers, but he is a beast on the PP.. unfortunately in the playoffs our PP hasnt been very good, and we havent had many PP chances, but he hasnt played every game either.

If Bouwmeester is gonna command Eric Staal money (6mil+ a year) I don't see him playing here anyway. We wont pay that much, and some other team will offer him way more money we can afford to play in a more traditional market like Detroit, Montreal, Toronto etc. Knowing the way the upper management run this team its probably a moot point.. no one is gonna come in and get paid more then Staal.

Farm system is correct. The Canes system is consider 26th out of the 30 team's farm systems by Hockey's Future. Basically, there is Sutter, Boychuk, Bowman (the 3 fwds), then McBain, and Murphy and little else to get excited about. Why not both JayB and Corvo? That could be great, but it would likely be a Canes payroll issue. Why Corvo specifically? He'll be 32 in June with 1 year left on his contract. The rest of the D is younger with more career upside, especially Babchuk imo. If JR could get good future value for Corvo while separately bringing in a serious top pairing D-man, the team might establish a core to be a contender year in and out without sacrificing the future. The team as I see it this year is solid. With a JayB added to the core, the team could be formidable for sometime, even with the Canes spending limits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Farm system is correct. The Canes system is consider 26th out of the 30 team's farm systems by Hockey's Future. Basically, there is Sutter, Boychuk, Bowman (the 3 fwds), then McBain, and Murphy and little else to get excited about. Why not both JayB and Corvo? That could be great, but it would likely be a Canes payroll issue. Why Corvo specifically? He'll be 32 in June with 1 year left on his contract. The rest of the D is younger with more career upside, especially Babchuk imo. If JR could get good future value for Corvo while separately bringing in a serious top pairing D-man, the team might establish a core to be a contender year in and out without sacrificing the future. The team as I see it this year is solid. With a JayB added to the core, the team could be formidable for sometime, even with the Canes spending limits.

That makes sense.. I didnt realize he was the oldest Dman.

I understand your ideas, and it makes perfect sense.. but the way the team has run itself in the past, going for a guy like JayB which you predicted at like 6.25mil would never happen.. He would end up being the second highest paid player on the team, after Staal's new contract kicks in next year. We dont seem to go after high dollar free agents like that. I suppose that could be a crutch, depending on how you look at it..

What you say would work, I just dont see it happening. But who knows...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That makes sense.. I didnt realize he was the oldest Dman.

I understand your ideas, and it makes perfect sense.. but the way the team has run itself in the past, going for a guy like JayB which you predicted at like 6.25mil would never happen.. He would end up being the second highest paid player on the team, after Staal's new contract kicks in next year. We dont seem to go after high dollar free agents like that. I suppose that could be a crutch, depending on how you look at it..

What you say would work, I just dont see it happening. But who knows...

you also got to factor in that JR would have to sold that we would get $6mil production out of JayBo and that is impossible to figure out, look at the contract extension with Staal. JR did it at a time he figured that Staal would play up to the contract and it didn't really happen (that isn't to say he won't just that you have to be careful with big contracts - JayBo would really have to make that kind of difference and I just don't see that). In JayBo's case I say let other teams pay too much for him, bet Martin is sick on his stomach he didn't trade him when he could - now they get nothing. Those kind of moves should get a GM fired.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read an article about the Nashville Predators and their struggle for money. It said that a team could make between $750,000 and 1 million dollars per home game. It seems like a lot but with the price increases for the seats in the playoffs, that very well may be the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I read an article about the Nashville Predators and their struggle for money. It said that a team could make between $750,000 and 1 million dollars per home game. It seems like a lot but with the price increases for the seats in the playoffs, that very well may be the case.

that is assuming a sellout, most games aren't depending on the team (toronto/montreal are usually sellouts while phoniex and atlanta play to half empty houses).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think carson and dalpe have better then bottom line/pairing potential. also dodge and borer are 4th line 6th defensmen material.

i really dont think corvo is a better skater or passer then pitkanen stick handling is very easy to argue either way. age 32 isnt that bad really, he's definatly got til 36 if not more.

babchuk's output was huge this year and i really like him and his future here.

i've heard sutter plays rw as well. is there a reason a center wouldnt be pretty much as useful at wing, is there a difference in responsibilty or anything. i can see why a winger shouldnt play center for face offs but cant understand to much the why the centermen wouldnt be effective at wing. any insight would be great thanks guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...