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remkin

Who should be the head coach?

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it is the coaches job to motivate, to light a fire. none of that happened.

By the time a team gets to the ECF's and is one of 4 teams still standing, the motivation and fire has to come from within, its up to players to take all that they've learned as a group and apply it to their game on the ice. Thats when you always hear about certain players taking on the leadership roles and being the voice of the room. The coaches job by this point is the dealing with the line up and making choices about lines and match ups based on what he has to work with for that given game. In 06, Lavi was done teaching and it was up to the veterans and the Captain to rally the troops, as they did. Im sure you've heard of "locked door" or "players only" meetings? The players at this point need to step up and be their own voice for each other.

Anyone that has participated, not just spectated in higher level sports at some point of their lives knows that coach has little to do motivating the team when it comes down to those final crucial games of the season. In a normal situation, he would have all season to prepare for and give his team the tools to deal with any situation or adversity they may come across and get in their way.

My only point is that Maurice did not have a full season to do any of this and he was handed a team that had been beat down both mentally and physically. He not only had to dig them out of a huge hole, but he had to find a way to build back some confidence and modify the way they play, all within a relatively short period of time to give them a chance to even make the playoffs. Despite the fact that some fans already hated him because their own preconceived opinions, and despite the fact that he had no say about what players he had to work with to fit whatever system he could put in place, he still managed to get it done in time for this team to not only make the playoffs, but make it to the ECF's, which again, only 4 teams out 30 get to do.

Id like to see what he can do with a whole season, a few bigger/stronger bodies to play the defensive role he's been preaching and an established coaching staff that starts the season with a game plan all on the same page. I never said he was the definite answer but he's layed enough ground work to convince me that he's earned a chance.

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I don't disagree but that would sound like the guys stopped buying what Mo is selling at the worst possible time. If Cam was hurt (and I am led to believe he was) then you go with your backup and hope for the best. Had we won one or two then I would just leave it at the better team won.

I am not sure I completely understand your point, but from what I got out of it is that you have an issue with the team not playing the same style/level of game they played the last part of the regular season and the first two rounds of the playoffs (this would be the "not buying what Mo is selling" comment). And that you are unhappy with Mo's decision, or indecision, to make changes to the lineup when things started to go downhill (the cam vs. leights comment). If I am wrong, then you can pretty much ignore everything that comes after this point... :)

As for the change in style of game, I will agree with you that we did see a different style being played. But I don't think it was the team not buying into Mo's style; it's what got them there and they knew that; heck we knew that. I think credit has to be given where credit is due, Pittsburgh forced them to play Penguins hockey and we didn't push enough them to play Canes' hockey. Add in injuries and fatigue and we were a recipe for disaster. There were times that we saw our style of hockey and saw it be effective. Unfortunately, they (the team, not Mo) couldn't sustain it. The issue lies with the opponent being able to dictate the type of game and us not having enough in the tank to counteract that.

As far as Cam being pulled in favor of Leighton-yes Cam was hurt, I don't think you'll find any disagreement on that one. I am just not sure there was any more of a chance we would have "won one or two" with Leighton than with Cam. The problem didn't just lie with the goalie in that series, it was with the defense in front of him as well and there wasn't any guarantee that they would have played better in front of Leights at 100% than they did in front of Cam at less than 100%. I think Mo went with the odds on this one, figuring an experienced Cam at whatever health was better than a rusty Leighton at full health. Maybe it was the wrong move in hindsight, but we'll never really know.

Bottom line here I think that Mo has earned the right to coach this team for another (full) season. EDIT-for basically the reasons that TSA has outlined above me. :)

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I am not sure I completely understand your point, but from what I got out of it is that you have an issue with the team not playing the same style/level of game they played the last part of the regular season and the first two rounds of the playoffs (this would be the "not buying what Mo is selling" comment). And that you are unhappy with Mo's decision, or indecision, to make changes to the lineup when things started to go downhill (the cam vs. leights comment). If I am wrong, then you can pretty much ignore everything that comes after this point... :)

As for the change in style of game, I will agree with you that we did see a different style being played. But I don't think it was the team not buying into Mo's style; it's what got them there and they knew that; heck we knew that. I think credit has to be given where credit is due, Pittsburgh forced them to play Penguins hockey and we didn't push enough them to play Canes' hockey. Add in injuries and fatigue and we were a recipe for disaster. There were times that we saw our style of hockey and saw it be effective. Unfortunately, they (the team, not Mo) couldn't sustain it. The issue lies with the opponent being able to dictate the type of game and us not having enough in the tank to counteract that.

As far as Cam being pulled in favor of Leighton-yes Cam was hurt, I don't think you'll find any disagreement on that one. I am just not sure there was any more of a chance we would have "won one or two" with Leighton than with Cam. The problem didn't just lie with the goalie in that series, it was with the defense in front of him as well and there wasn't any guarantee that they would have played better in front of Leights at 100% than they did in front of Cam at less than 100%. I think Mo went with the odds on this one, figuring an experienced Cam at whatever health was better than a rusty Leighton at full health. Maybe it was the wrong move in hindsight, but we'll never really know.

Bottom line here I think that Mo has earned the right to coach this team for another (full) season. EDIT-for basically the reasons that TSA has outlined above me. :)

I can buy your assessment for a game or two and agree but after having your butts handed to you after a game or two, you have to adjust. And it is so much as "Mo earning another contract" as "what is better for the team going forward". For the record, I am not a Mo hater as much as I want someone behind the bench that can light a fire night in and night out. Personally I think that is the Captains job but when he ain't doing it then the Coach HAS to. What I want is a competitive product on the ice night in and night out. We will win some and lose some but at the end of the day will win more than we lose.

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Personally I think that is the Captains job but when he ain't doing it...

I think that may be part of the problem too. Now I make this statement from complete ignorance of what happens in the locker room but it appears to me that the Whitney has been the most vocal this season. Brindy seems to be the quiet, lead by example kind of guy. When Brindy was out last year it seemed that Staal took up the slack but now that Brindy is back he has resumed his old role.

I may be way off base, but that is the impression I get.

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I can buy your assessment for a game or two and agree but after having your butts handed to you after a game or two, you have to adjust. And it is so much as "Mo earning another contract" as "what is better for the team going forward". For the record, I am not a Mo hater as much as I want someone behind the bench that can light a fire night in and night out. Personally I think that is the Captains job but when he ain't doing it then the Coach HAS to. What I want is a competitive product on the ice night in and night out. We will win some and lose some but at the end of the day will win more than we lose.

So if I have this right again, Mo made choices based on what he thought would help "earn his contract" which ultimately led to the 4 game sweep? And you now say that lighting a fire under the bench is the Captain's job when before it was only Mo's fault they weren't putting out the same effort as they did down the stretch and in the first 2 rounds, based on your assessment of what was their demise in the end?

For the record, and its well documented and in multiple threads, you were the biggest Mo hater on the board from the second he was re-hired until now. Thats why people are questioning as to whether or not your opinion would really change based on the facts put in front of you from his recent job performance, whether or not the Canes were swept out the ECF's or whether they put up a 7 game fight. You said yourself, "the only way i would keep him if it were my money is if he had won the cup" so were you ever really going to give him a fair shake, or was that only if he won a Cup? You give Lavi all the credit in the world because he brought you a Cup but if you read all the exit interviews and post season comments by our players, they credit Maurice for righting the ship that was sinking under Lavi's watch (and this by no means is to criticize Lavi for what he was able to do here).

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Mo has earned it because he inherited a hot mess.

Maurice didn't inherit HALF the "hot mess" that Laviolette did.

First, I'll discuss what I would LIKE to see happen. I think Maurice was put here because he and Francis are familiar with each other. I believe that Francis was being groomed for the position, and they didn't want to stick Francis with an unfamiliar face, so enter Maurice. I do not suggest a whole sale change of the coaching staff, but I do think JR and PK should take a long look at some other coaches. I'm not sold on Maurice, period. I know what happened this season, I'm well aware of the turnaround. But it had as much to do with the players as it did the coach. Seemed to me that Maurice ran Laviolette's system with one less fore-checker. His system focused a bit more on the neutral zone, than Laviolette's offensive attacking system. Also, you have Laviolette to thank for the production from the blue line, not Maurice. It was Laviolette's system that really got the defense involved, and I believe under Maurice that would disappear. (See; Sandis Ozolinsh)

I don't believe Laviolette was fired because he lost his team. He went head to head with management and lost, as anyone would. Karmanos frankly stated that he didn't like Maurice. It doesn't get any more black and white than that.

IMO, a lot of the coaching is done from the press box. Maurice takes orders very well. As long as Management has the stranglehold they do on the coaching of this team, it will always been someone like Maurice or Francis, someone they are very familiar with. The last time they thought outside their "box", the Canes had a Stanley Cup within 2 years. I personally do not think that will happen under Paul Maurice.

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I can buy your assessment for a game or two and agree but after having your butts handed to you after a game or two, you have to adjust. And it is so much as "Mo earning another contract" as "what is better for the team going forward". For the record, I am not a Mo hater as much as I want someone behind the bench that can light a fire night in and night out. Personally I think that is the Captains job but when he ain't doing it then the Coach HAS to. What I want is a competitive product on the ice night in and night out. We will win some and lose some but at the end of the day will win more than we lose.

Forgive me if I am asking a question that you have already answered, but are you basing your decision on the last series, or the entire time this season with Mo as a whole? Because the problems you've pointed out (at least in our conversations) seem to center around the last series. I am not sure that it's fair to only use four games as the basis for keeping a coach or not, especially when his tenure was so much more than that.

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It was Laviolette's system that really got the defense involved, and I believe under Maurice that would disappear.(See; Sandis Ozolinsh)

I don't believe Laviolette was fired because he lost his team. He went head to head with management and lost, as anyone would. Karmanos frankly stated that he didn't like Maurice. It doesn't get any more black and white than that.

Absolutely, Lavi should get credit for the defense being involved and scoring but what was proved by the success of the second half is that you cant compromise your defensive zone coverage for all that offense. No team is going to win many games scoring 4 goals a game when they're giving up 5. Sandis Ozolinsh disappeared as well thankfully (thank you for Brett Hedican and Kevyn Adams), and Im not sure you meant to say that Karmanos didnt like Maurice.

Pre and post lockout NHL also have to factor into the equation along with how the team was built and for what system. I cant really say what system the pre 05 Canes were built for but when Lavi got his fresh start from day 1 in 05, it was very clear the style of play this team was built for and how it would do with the post lock out rules.

One less forchecker up front was the difference bewteen constant odd-man breaks that resulted in constantly hanging a goalie out to dry. I wouldnt exactly call that all neutral zone play, more like responsible defensive play. Did it come from Maurice, Francis, both or JR himself? Who knows, but as a coaching team, it worked....no denying that.

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Forgive me if I am asking a question that you have already answered, but are you basing your decision on the last series, or the entire time this season with Mo as a whole? Because the problems you've pointed out (at least in our conversations) seem to center around the last series. I am not sure that it's fair to only use four games as the basis for keeping a coach or not, especially when his tenure was so much more than that.

had we taken it to five or even six games then I could understand all this but a four game sweep to me indicates your coach was asleep at the wheel. I am appreciative of what Mo has accomplished but going forward is a different story. If they want to reward the guy then give him a cushy front office job.

I guess the best way to describe my thought pattern is this. Last season is last season, some things went wrong and some things went incredibly right. For now I am ONLY thinking about next season and having said that, just read Shawn's post above. We need to put a lot of thought into our coaching staff which some triggers off of whether or not Ronnie Franchise wants the reins. We have time to look around at what other coaches are out there (yes I am aware we missed out on the Jacques Martin sweepstakes).

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Interesting quote from Cam Ward about Maurice and what he meant to his improved play:

There was also the much-celebrated work of Tom Barrasso as his full-time goaltending coach and an overall change in the team's system, which helped to ease the nightly burden that Ward was subjected to. His shots against per game only went down by two after the coaching change, but the number of high-percentage ones certainly decreased by more than that.

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had we taken it to five or even six games then I could understand all this but a four game sweep to me indicates your coach was asleep at the wheel. I am appreciative of what Mo has accomplished but going forward is a different story. If they want to reward the guy then give him a cushy front office job.

I guess the best way to describe my thought pattern is this. Last season is last season, some things went wrong and some things went incredibly right. For now I am ONLY thinking about next season and having said that, just read Shawn's post above. We need to put a lot of thought into our coaching staff which some triggers off of whether or not Ronnie Franchise wants the reins. We have time to look around at what other coaches are out there (yes I am aware we missed out on the Jacques Martin sweepstakes).

We'll have to agree to disagree in terms of Mo's perfomance during the ECF. I understand your point about looking towards the future, but we saw what Mo and the current coaching staff could do with half a season and a team they had very little say in. Imagine what they could accomplish with a full season and more input into personnel. But, if we don't go with Mo, who do you see as being the best fit for the team? Do you see any of the current people (who were part of the Pens' series) as being the go-to guy? Or do you, as your post would suggest, see an outside person being brought in? I hear Tony Granato may be available...

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We'll have to agree to disagree in terms of Mo's performance during the ECF. I understand your point about looking towards the future, but we saw what Mo and the current coaching staff could do with half a season and a team they had very little say in. Imagine what they could accomplish with a full season and more input into personnel. But, if we don't go with Mo, who do you see as being the best fit for the team? Do you see any of the current people (who were part of the Pens' series) as being the go-to guy? Or do you, as your post would suggest, see an outside person being brought in? I hear Tony Granato may be available...

if nothing else if you are PK and JR, you have to at least see what is out there.

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Regardless of any change in coaches, the math on the poll needs to be corrected. 89 out of 101 votes (as of 1825 hours on Wednesday) is 78.8%, not 74.2 (as shown). I noticed it yesterday when the total vote count was 100.

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Regardless of any change in coaches, the math on the poll needs to be corrected. 89 out of 101 votes (as of 1825 hours on Wednesday) is 78.8%, not 74.2 (as shown). I noticed it yesterday when the total vote count was 100.

At least at the moment the numbers beside each option don't add up to the total at the bottom (as of 9:56 pm it says there are 115 votes but if you add them up its 122). But the percentages do match the actual total. Something must be wrong in the code, that or not all votes are created even.

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My vote counts as 2, I'm sure there a few other people out there whom this applies to also. That being said, JR is still going to take a look at what is out there, while he is more than likely going to resign Mo, he still knows to look at other options as well. I'm ready for September, can we skip the next 2 and a half months?

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To be honest, I'm kind've exhausted from griping about the Mo. My question is where does Tom Rowe fit in all this? The man is brought in to be associate head coach with Lavi. When Lavi leaves, I'm guessing Tom thought he would be the logical successor. Then in comes the Mo(groan), and Ronnie, Tom is pushed to assistant, Kevin is banished to the press box, and we hear that Ronnie is being mentored for the head Coach job. Now it looks like Mo(groan), and hopefully Ronnie will be back and Tom remains assistant. It seems to me the job of death in this organization is "associate head coach". Good luck Ronnie. Now discuss....

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(yes I am aware we missed out on the Jacques Martin sweepstakes).
I pray to God that was sarcasm, because I sure can't tell by reading it.

To be honest, I'm kind've exhausted from griping about the Mo. My question is where does Tom Rowe fit in all this? The man is brought in to be associate head coach with Lavi. When Lavi leaves, I'm guessing Tom thought he would be the logical successor. Then in comes the Mo(groan), and Ronnie, Tom is pushed to assistant, Kevin is banished to the press box, and we hear that Ronnie is being mentored for the head Coach job. Now it looks like Mo(groan), and hopefully Ronnie will be back and Tom remains assistant. It seems to me the job of death in this organization is "associate head coach". Good luck Ronnie. Now discuss....

I think it just means JR has his ducks in a row and has options. I doubt Tom came down from Albany with some sort of expectation of being named head coach at some point. There is always the possibility, but we honestly don't know what he was thinking/expecting. Bottom line: JD, Tom, Ronnie, Mo.... J.R. has options because he has set himself up that way. That's all. I really doubt he would go outside to find a new head coach.

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To be honest, I'm kind've exhausted from griping about the Mo. My question is where does Tom Rowe fit in all this? The man is brought in to be associate head coach with Lavi. When Lavi leaves, I'm guessing Tom thought he would be the logical successor. Then in comes the Mo(groan), and Ronnie, Tom is pushed to assistant, Kevin is banished to the press box, and we hear that Ronnie is being mentored for the head Coach job. Now it looks like Mo(groan), and hopefully Ronnie will be back and Tom remains assistant. It seems to me the job of death in this organization is "associate head coach". Good luck Ronnie. Now discuss....

Not exhausted just changing tact to attack from the side. LOL.

Face it. Mo will be the coach next year. I would think a 2 year deal with an option(for both sides).

I would think we will know by this weekend.

Best thing for this team.

Go Canes! :lol:

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Absolutely, Lavi should get credit for the defense being involved and scoring but what was proved by the success of the second half is that you cant compromise your defensive zone coverage for all that offense. No team is going to win many games scoring 4 goals a game when they're giving up 5. Sandis Ozolinsh disappeared as well thankfully (thank you for Brett Hedican and Kevyn Adams), and Im not sure you meant to say that Karmanos didnt like Maurice.

I apologize... I meant to say, PK said flat out that he didn't like Laviolette. With all the names I got... uh , finger-tied? I'm referring to PK's comments in an interview after Laviolette's firing.

But, I wasn't trying to compare Laviolette to Maurice... but more the teams they inherited when they took over as coach, and the adjustments they made... it's not about he is/was a better coach.

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I apologize... I meant to say, PK said flat out that he didn't like Laviolette. With all the names I got... uh , finger-tied? I'm referring to PK's comments in an interview after Laviolette's firing.

But, I wasn't trying to compare Laviolette to Maurice... but more the teams they inherited when they took over as coach, and the adjustments they made... it's not about he is/was a better coach.

Werent you the one concerned about how we had to score more than 4 goals a game to get a win the first half of the year? Was that more about the system (set by the coach) or the goaltender. Or maybe both are related?

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Werent you the one concerned about how we had to score more than 4 goals a game to get a win the first half of the year? Was that more about the system (set by the coach) or the goaltender. Or maybe both are related?

I don't recall saying that.... but it doesn't mean I didn't... I'd much rather see The Canes lose a game 4-3 than 2-1.

Of course with a more offensive system comes more odd-man breaks against you... it depends upon the team's ability to execute. It came as no shock that Maurice would change some things to tighten up the defense. Laviolette's run and gun offense wasn't working any more. The team's system was figured out, and beaten on a regular basis.... the SAME THING happened in the ECF. Pittsbugh knew what the Canes were going to do before the Canes did. Carolina's quick ups along the boards were cut off 95% of the time, and Staal was kept in a mayonnaise jar the entire series.

I saw very little adjustments from the Canes in that series, and saw a great deal from Pitt after game one.

I can't say it was ALL Maurice's fault.... but I've seem him stick with an ineffective system before... and I don't want to sit through it again.

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I don't recall saying that.... but it doesn't mean I didn't... I'd much rather see The Canes lose a game 4-3 than 2-1.

Of course with a more offensive system comes more odd-man breaks against you... it depends upon the team's ability to execute. It came as no shock that Maurice would change some things to tighten up the defense. Laviolette's run and gun offense wasn't working any more. The team's system was figured out, and beaten on a regular basis.... the SAME THING happened in the ECF. Pittsbugh knew what the Canes were going to do before the Canes did. Carolina's quick ups along the boards were cut off 95% of the time, and Staal was kept in a mayonnaise jar the entire series.

I saw very little adjustments from the Canes in that series, and saw a great deal from Pitt after game one.

I can't say it was ALL Maurice's fault.... but I've seem him stick with an ineffective system before... and I don't want to sit through it again.

good post.

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