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Playing GM for the 2009-2010 Season

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IMO Babchuk brings more to the table... Babchuk had a +/- of +22 better than Seidenberg for starters....

EDIT: My point is.... Babchuk, restricted or not... should be worth what Seidenberg is, true or false?...

If you are talking about value as in what J.R. will be willing to pay, then no, he is not and the reason is that he has no options and Seids does.

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Babs was never eligible for arbitration rights, so he didn't "lose" them.

As for the 2nd question, if both Babs and Seidenberg were free agents, Babs would probably be given a bigger contract than D-berg, assuming JR wanted to keep both.

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Babs was never eligible for arbitration rights, so he didn't "lose" them.

As for the 2nd question, if both Babs and Seidenberg were free agents, Babs would probably be given a bigger contract than D-berg, assuming JR wanted to keep both.

why does he not have arbitration rights?

Babs is a RFA

Seids is a UFA

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If you are talking about value as in what J.R. will be willing to pay, then no, he is not and the reason is that he has no options and Seids does.

So let's say Babchuk was signed to an offer sheet for oh... let's say... $2 million a season... is he worth matching the offer for... or do you take the pick? And the pick would be a second round pick.

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why does he not have arbitration rights?

Babs is a RFA

Seids is a UFA

NHL Rules state..." players must have four years of NHL experience before they are eligible for salary arbitration, Babs has 3.

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So let's say Babchuk was signed to an offer sheet for oh... let's say... $2 million a season... is he worth matching the offer for... or do you take the pick? And the pick would be a second round pick.

In the case of Babs I would take the pick.

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So let's say Babchuk was signed to an offer sheet for oh... let's say... $2 million a season... is he worth matching the offer for... or do you take the pick? And the pick would be a second round pick.

I'll take the pick and save the 2 mil. That would be a pretty good return on a reclaimation project.

I wouldn't put 2 mil a year into Seids or Babs at this point.

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NHL Rules state..." players must have four years of NHL experience before they are eligible for salary arbitration, Babs has 3.

It's hard to tell with the wording the way it is. Babchuk signed his contract before he turned 20, so he does need 4 years of professional experience for it to count as an "accrued season". And if they only count NHL seasons, then yes, he still needs 1 more season to be eligible. However, with the lockout and his play in the KHL, I'm not 100% sure he isn't eligible now, especially with the KHL season.

According to Irish Blues (who runs NHLsCap), Babs needs one more accrued season and I'm willing to trust that info. The person knows the CBA inside and out.

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I'm kind of confused about the Seidenberg, Babchuk re-signing process.

So supposedly... Seidenberg played well enough to deserve a pretty good sized raise. JR has said that signing Seidenberg is important to him.

JR has also said... that Babchuk can accept his qualifying offer or go back to Russia. Let's compare to 2 players.

Seidenberg had 5 goals, 25 assists for 30 points and was a -9 in 70 games played. He also took 129 shots and had a shooting % of 3.9.

Babchuk had 16 goals and 19 assists for 35 points and was a +13 in 72 games played. Ht took 127 shots and had a shooting % of 12.6.

So why is re-signing Seidenberg important but re-signing Babchuk is not? And yes I know the difference between a restricted free agent and an unrestricted free agent. A LOT of restricted free agents decline their qualifying offer because they know they're worth more after a good season, it is not uncommon. To me, it seems like JR still has sour grapes about what happened 2 years ago. JR knows he has Babchuk by the balls so to speak, because he doesn't have arbitration rights. IMO Babchuk has earned his spot on this team as much as Seidenberg has.... yet JR gives Babchuk the shaft, and Seidenberg is expected to get a nice sized raise. Doesn't seem right...

Seidenberg had 146 hits (4th on the team) and 160 blocked shots (1st on the team)

Babchuck had 22 hits (19th on the team) and 115 block shots (4th on the team)

They both bring something to the table, but I think Seidenberg has a more complete game right now. For what it's worth, he is currently listed as the 21st best UFA by The Fourth Period.

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Seidenberg had 146 hits (4th on the team) and 160 blocked shots (1st on the team)

Babchuck had 22 hits (19th on the team) and 115 block shots (4th on the team)

They both bring something to the table, but I think Seidenberg has a more complete game right now. For what it's worth, he is currently listed as the 21st best UFA by The Fourth Period.

It might not come to a choice but if it does I agree you stick with Seidenberg. I think you also have to ask

if your being pressured in your own zone who would you rather have try to stick handle or move the puck out of your zone Babs or Seids. Got to go with Seids.

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Seidenberg had 146 hits (4th on the team) and 160 blocked shots (1st on the team)

Babchuck had 22 hits (19th on the team) and 115 block shots (4th on the team)

They both bring something to the table, but I think Seidenberg has a more complete game right now. For what it's worth, he is currently listed as the 21st best UFA by The Fourth Period.

It might not come to a choice but if it does I agree you stick with Seidenberg. I think you also have to ask

if your being pressured in your own zone who would you rather have try to stick handle or move the puck out of your zone Babs or Seids. Got to go with Seids.

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In the case of Babs I would take the pick.

I'll take the pick and save the 2 mil. That would be a pretty good return on a reclaimation project.

I wouldn't put 2 mil a year into Seids or Babs at this point.

So you would trade a proven NHL defenseman who scored 16 goals for a second round pick? The only way that would be worth it would be if we were able to draft someone like Jamie McBain in the second round. Our second best second-round pick since moving to NC is....Mike Zigomanis.

The chances of getting someone as good as Babchuk with that second rounder are slim. And if you did, eventually if you'd have to pay him $2M as well.

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So you would trade a proven NHL defenseman who scored 16 goals for a second round pick? The only way that would be worth it would be if we were able to draft someone like Jamie McBain in the second round. Our second best second-round pick since moving to NC is....Mike Zigomanis.

The chances of getting someone as good as Babchuk with that second rounder are slim. And if you did, eventually if you'd have to pay him $2M as well.

we wouldn't trade babs but if someone came along with an offer sheet for him then yeah i would take the picks rather than match the offer sheet. I don't see JR matching someone else's offer for Babs.

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So you would trade a proven NHL defenseman who scored 16 goals for a second round pick? The only way that would be worth it would be if we were able to draft someone like Jamie McBain in the second round. Our second best second-round pick since moving to NC is....Mike Zigomanis.

The chances of getting someone as good as Babchuk with that second rounder are slim. And if you did, eventually if you'd have to pay him $2M as well.

In many ways, that scenario would work out well. I'm not saying we give up on Babs, but at a "supposed" 2 mil a year, I (or J.R.) would take a pick and not match that money. Babchuk is a proven defenseman, but not one that hits or even skates that fast. Those are the areas that the Canes need to improve in. A second round pick is not like getting a bag of pucks, it has value. The player picked could contribute or it could be packaged with another player/pick for a proven NHL defenseman.

Just for "grins and giggles", suppose Kabs left for the KHL and somebody made a move on Babs giving us the supposed 2nd round pick. We have a couple of prospect defensemen in Albany that are ready to make a move. If Seids was signed, that would still leave 5 defensemen on the roster before a Rat was called up. I'd like to see what J.R. could do with the salary he would gain from Kabs defection and the pick for Babs.

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So you would trade a proven NHL defenseman who scored 16 goals for a second round pick? The only way that would be worth it would be if we were able to draft someone like Jamie McBain in the second round. Our second best second-round pick since moving to NC is....Mike Zigomanis.

The chances of getting someone as good as Babchuk with that second rounder are slim. And if you did, eventually if you'd have to pay him $2M as well.

I don't know what sick world you live in that Babchuk is a proven defenseman. I'd take a gift certificate to Chili's over Babchuk. I doubt anyone would match the qualifying offer, much less offer $2 million. I'd be shocked if someone in the second round was worse than him.

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I don't know what sick world you live in that Babchuk is a proven defenseman. I'd take a gift certificate to Chili's over Babchuk. I doubt anyone would match the qualifying offer, much less offer $2 million. I'd be shocked if someone in the second round was worse than him.

Thats what Im thinking. Proven defensman? Offer sheet? I read on another Canes board that we MUST sign Babs, Id rather take the Chilis gift card too.

He hits nothing and coughs up the puck evrytime he gets pressured. So....he doesnt play good defense and can only score on the point when a 500 foot radius is cleared around him. I will give him the blocked shots, the guy doesnt mind putting himself in harms way but that doesnt make up with his horrible own zone defense.

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I will give him the blocked shots, the guy doesnt mind putting himself in harms way but that doesnt make up with his horrible own zone defense.

The blocked shots may be because he is too slow to get out of the way.

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:lol:

Wow, I have no idea what Babchuk some are watching here. Yes, he's slow. Yes, he's not very physical. However, he blocks shots, and he makes up for his lack of footspeed by good positioning and a good stick. It's what Wesley did in his time here. Wesley wasn't fast, he wasn't physical, but his ability to be in the right place at the right time made him a good defenseman.

What some don't seem to get is Babchuk is a 25-year old defenseman who scored 16 goals this past season. You really don't think that's going to peke the interest of any of the GMs in the league? Really? That's tied for 5th in goals scored by defensemen. The company he's around in that category? Souray, Boyle, Weber, Lidstrom, Streit. The only reason he wouldn't get an offer sheet from another team is his history. His play alone would get him one though.

And as an added laugh, feel free to look back in this topic. Funny how quickly the "What have you done for me lately" mentality rears it's ugly head.

http://forums.carolinahurricanes.com/index...showtopic=18731

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:lol:

Wow, I have no idea what Babchuk some are watching here. Yes, he's slow. Yes, he's not very physical. However, he blocks shots, and he makes up for his lack of footspeed by good positioning and a good stick. It's what Wesley did in his time here. Wesley wasn't fast, he wasn't physical, but his ability to be in the right place at the right time made him a good defenseman.

What some don't seem to get is Babchuk is a 25-year old defenseman who scored 16 goals this past season. You really don't think that's going to peke the interest of any of the GMs in the league? Really? That's tied for 5th in goals scored by defensemen. The company he's around in that category? Souray, Boyle, Weber, Lidstrom, Streit. The only reason he wouldn't get an offer sheet from another team is his history. His play alone would get him one though.

And as an added laugh, feel free to look back in this topic. Funny how quickly the "What have you done for me lately" mentality rears it's ugly head.

http://forums.carolinahurricanes.com/index.php?showtopic=18731' target="_blank">http://forums.carolinahurricanes.com/index...showtopic=18731[/post]

Good post frog, can always count on you to put on your "mythbusters" hat.

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I never said Babchuk was some great defenseman or that didn't have his flaws. However, any defenseman that scored 16 goals and 35 points with a +13 rating is proven in my mind. Giving him up for a second round pick is an incredible risk, and even if it pans out you have to wait years for the player to develop. Sure, you could flip that pick in another deal but I highly doubt you are getting a defenseman better than Babchuk for it unless you throw in another big piece.

At the age of 24, Babchuk led the defense in goals, +/- and was 3 points shy of Corvo for the points lead despite playing in 9 fewer games and getting about half the average powerplay time.

At the age of 24, Joe Corvo spent the entire season in the AHL.

Point being is that defensemen taking a long time to develop. Babchuk is already here in the NHL producing and improving, yet some people think he's expendable because he struggled in his first playoff performance.

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:lol:

Wow, I have no idea what Babchuk some are watching here. Yes, he's slow. Yes, he's not very physical. However, he blocks shots, and he makes up for his lack of footspeed by good positioning and a good stick. It's what Wesley did in his time here. Wesley wasn't fast, he wasn't physical, but his ability to be in the right place at the right time made him a good defenseman.

What some don't seem to get is Babchuk is a 25-year old defenseman who scored 16 goals this past season. You really don't think that's going to peke the interest of any of the GMs in the league? Really? That's tied for 5th in goals scored by defensemen. The company he's around in that category? Souray, Boyle, Weber, Lidstrom, Streit. The only reason he wouldn't get an offer sheet from another team is his history. His play alone would get him one though.

And as an added laugh, feel free to look back in this topic. Funny how quickly the "What have you done for me lately" mentality rears it's ugly head.

http://forums.carolinahurricanes.com/index.php?showtopic=18731' target="_blank">http://forums.carolinahurricanes.com/index...showtopic=18731[/post]

Yeah Frog, I went back and saw what I posted. I said he had impressed and I'd like to see him back. That hasn't changed, but you have to look at his total game. My thinking in this current thread is that some are throwing around numbers like 2 mil a year and at that price, I'd have to let him go, especially if you are going to be compensated.

Oh and by the way, this is a "What have you done for me lately" world that we live in.

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Yeah Frog, I went back and saw what I posted. I said he had impressed and I'd like to see him back. That hasn't changed, but you have to look at his total game. My thinking in this current thread is that some are throwing around numbers like 2 mil a year and at that price, I'd have to let him go, especially if you are going to be compensated.

Oh and by the way, this is a "What have you done for me lately" world that we live in.

I think it's tough to tell. Our drafting, as a whole, has been less than stellar, and typically, you take a proven NHL defenseman over an unproven draft pick, no matter what the situation. If the compensation were a little higher, then maybe we'd talk.

Not that it matters anyway, JR's pretty much said he's going to make the QO and I doubt he'll go any higher than that. Others teams will, as I already stated. Just hate to lose a good defenseman because JR's pissy about a past mistake.

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Babchuck is nowhere near the D-man that Wesley was; I'm not sure that there could be a more laughable comparison. But leave it up to Frog to stretch the limits.

The fact is that Anton Babchuck buckles under pressure, whereas Seidenberg can take the hit, keep the puck, and make the right play. We saw these exact things in the playoffs; Babchuck could barely handle the puck with opposing players hounding him, while Seids got boarded several times and still managed to do his job.

Now, who would you rather have on the team? An offensive D-man who can be exploited and rendered useless, or a more complete D-man who can be counted on in crunch time?

Considering the many different perceptions on this board, I wouldn't be surprised if half of you got the answer wrong. *cough Frog cough*

;)

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