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Playing GM for the 2009-2010 Season

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Did the Canes forget that Seidenberg and Babchuk are leaving? Are we going into next year with Kaberle and a rookie defenseman as our third pairing?

At this point it's looking like we might have to give up Ruutu to save money for a Dman and even then Kaberle will still be playing full time. If we did sign Ruutu for $2-3 million we would already be over the $50 million budget that they had for last year and I can't see them spending much more than that as Rutherford said on 99.9 the fan yesterday we are a small market team that depends on revenue sharing. There is an upper limit to how much you can spend if you want to qualify for revenue sharing and it certainly won't be more than $51-52 million.

Any thoughts?

need not worry grasshopper, we are only two days into free agency plus JR stated that he is looking to make a trade with someone to get our additional D.

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On 99.9 The Fan yesterday with JR on the insider he said that Babchuk wanted a trade or he was going back to Russia. I think they pushed him too hard on this whole "You have no arbitration rights because you left for Russia two years ago so you will accept what we give you or go back to the KHL" mentality. Now we are down 2 defensemen with almost no budget left, almost no trade assets, and it will be difficult to find a decent top-4 Defenseman.

I think any team will look at Eaves as a salary dump not an asset. $1.4 million for a 4th (Possibly 3rd based on the team) line winger is not that great of a deal.

Even more so for Walker ($2.5 million for a 4th liner). Babs rights have value for sure but I think they might have to end up giving up Ruutu to solve this defensive mess we have gotten ourselves into. There is no way we can afford to sign a $2-3 million dollar UFA/RFA defensemen and still afford Ruutu. This would put our Cap to about $54-55 million which is way above our budget but will also disqualify us for revenue sharing which JR has always said that we depend on.

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need not worry grasshopper, we are only two days into free agency plus JR stated that he is looking to make a trade with someone to get our additional D.

I'm sure it can happen, JR is a great GM who has always made great trades. But who do we have to give up then? To get a legitimate top-4 D-man it is going to take more than just Baboo's rights and a 3rd-4th liner like Eaves or Walker. I am just hoping it doesn't end up being Ruutu, which would beg the question if Cole and Larose were really more important than retaining Ruu.

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http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=CAR&season=0910' target="_blank">Canes salary info[/post]

The cap hit is 49 mil, but the actual salary to be paid is 45 mil. That would leave enough to sign Ruutu and do something about a d-man considering J.R. is talking trades.

This won't happen as it would disqualify us for Revenue Sharing which JR said yesterday that we depend on. The Revenue Sharing spending limit is based on cap not actual salary. I do agree with what you said, but I think the whole revenue sharing issue will hold us back.

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but who can we trade that has value and is not going to leave a huge void? with 6 mil left to spend we can get ruutu and a solid d in free agency. backman or mckee would be decent

$6 million left to spend to the cap limit. We have and probably never will spend all the way to the limit. Last year we only spent $50 million and that seems to be what our internal budget has been hovering around for the past few years.

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Did the Canes forget that Seidenberg and Babchuk are leaving? Are we going into next year with Kaberle and a rookie defenseman as our third pairing?

At this point it's looking like we might have to give up Ruutu to save money for a Dman and even then Kaberle will still be playing full time. If we did sign Ruutu for $2-3 million we would already be over the $50 million budget that they had for last year and I can't see them spending much more than that as Rutherford said on 99.9 the fan yesterday we are a small market team that depends on revenue sharing. There is an upper limit to how much you can spend if you want to qualify for revenue sharing and it certainly won't be more than $51-52 million.

Any thoughts?

Be patient, it is only July 3 after all. Ruutu is a restricted free agent, so he is already under contract for next year based on our giving him a qualifying offer which we did. If another club makes him an offer, we can match and he plays here, if we choose not to match the offer, the other team has to give up good draft picks. Also, Babchuck leaving is not a lock, the guy has two choices, the Hurricanes or another year in Russia. If he wants the big pay raise next year when he will be an unrestricted free agent, he knows that he will have to play in the NHL and prove his worth. My bet is that he will either play for the Canes or that we will be able to trade him. I hope that this plays out and he stays a Cane, he will be playing for a contract which means that we may get a full year out of him instead of 3 months. I'm sure that he will think that JR screwed him TWICE and that there is no way that he will sign here but again but a good year out of him will be a big plus. As to Seidenburg, he hasn't been signed yet, so who knows?

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Be patient, it is only July 3 after all. Ruutu is a restricted free agent, so he is already under contract for next year based on our giving him a qualifying offer which we did. If another club makes him an offer, we can match and he plays here, if we choose not to match the offer, the other team has to give up good draft picks. Also, Babchuck leaving is not a lock, the guy has two choices, the Hurricanes or another year in Russia. If he wants the big pay raise next year when he will be an unrestricted free agent, he knows that he will have to play in the NHL and prove his worth. My bet is that he will either play for the Canes or that we will be able to trade him. I hope that this plays out and he stays a Cane, he will be playing for a contract which means that we may get a full year out of him instead of 3 months. I'm sure that he will think that JR screwed him TWICE and that there is no way that he will sign here but again but a good year out of him will be a big plus. As to Seidenburg, he hasn't been signed yet, so who knows?

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The other option for Babchuk is that another team makes an offer sheet on him and they only have to give us a third round draft pick in compensation. I think Babchuk is a solid D-man and a much better bet at a much cheaper price than we will find anywhere else.

And the issue isn't that we have no time left. It is that after (Or if) we sign Ruutu for $2-3 million we will already be at a salary cap of over $50-51 million which is already above our budget from last year. We obviously need to make a trade for a top-4 D-man and I was looking for peoples opinions on who they are willing to give up? It will have to be Babchuk's rights + something. Whether that something is future draft picks, a prospect, a decent player (other teams won't want to take on Eaves/Walker's salaries for the type players they are), What is the price we are willing to pay? And you also have to factor in that we must keep below the Revenue Sharing limit to qualify for revenue sharing which will definitely be below $52-53 million.

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Ryan Clowe signed a 4 year deal paying him $3.5M per. He is 27 and had a career year last season, putting up as many points as Ruutu. Ruutu made $2.25M last year. I bet we are looking in the $3.5M range for Ruutu, his agent will be wanting comparable to what Clowe got.

I don't see JR trading Ruutu unless he absolutly has to and I think he would rather go with one of Carson or Rodney before trading Ruutu. I say this b/c after the ECF JR said "if Ruutu was healthy, that series goes a different way." He also said that "he will get Ruutu signed no matter what." I just don't see him moving him. Like I said, if he absolutly had to, but I think JR will do whatever he can to ensure Ruutu is not involved in any trade.

We are essentially looking at:

Eaves

Cole

LaRose

Samsonov

Whitney (NTC)

Walker (NTC)

Jokinen

to be moved.

If you have a team in cap trouble or an over abundance of D who they have to move one, you could work something out with Babchuk/Eaves along with a prospect and/or pick. Let's not forget that Eaves was a first round pick and has potential. You can throw the Eaves didn't fit in here and needs a change of scenery. If a team needs a top 9 guy, it won't be hard to get them to bite. The guy is only 25 and has potential.

Teams that are in a bit of a bind: Philly, LA and San Jose are the teams off the top of my head. Chicago is another but I doubt they want Babchuk back.

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Ryan Clowe signed a 4 year deal paying him $3.5M per. He is 27 and had a career year last season, putting up as many points as Ruutu. Ruutu made $2.25M last year. I bet we are looking in the $3.5M range for Ruutu, his agent will be wanting comparable to what Clowe got.

I don't see JR trading Ruutu unless he absolutly has to and I think he would rather go with one of Carson or Rodney before trading Ruutu. I say this b/c after the ECF JR said "if Ruutu was healthy, that series goes a different way." He also said that "he will get Ruutu signed no matter what." I just don't see him moving him. Like I said, if he absolutly had to, but I think JR will do whatever he can to ensure Ruutu is not involved in any trade.

We are essentially looking at:

Eaves

Cole

LaRose

Samsonov

Whitney (NTC)

Walker (NTC)

Jokinen

to be moved.

If you have a team in cap trouble or an over abundance of D who they have to move one, you could work something out with Babchuk/Eaves along with a prospect and/or pick. Let's not forget that Eaves was a first round pick and has potential. You can throw the Eaves didn't fit in here and needs a change of scenery. If a team needs a top 9 guy, it won't be hard to get them to bite. The guy is only 25 and has potential.

Teams that are in a bit of a bind: Philly, LA and San Jose are the teams off the top of my head. Chicago is another but I doubt they want Babchuk back.

I truly think that the qualifying offer JR made Ruutu was about $2.5-2.75 million and if he get awarded $3.5 in arbitration that JR will let him go for being too expensive. It is very unfortunate but probably a reality of our cash-strapped team. Babchuk+Eaves+ a prospect/pick could probably fetch a low-end top-4 defenseman from a team in a tight position but I really don't think we can afford to take on an extra $2-3 million in salary in the deal especially if we re-sign Ruutu. It just seems to me that a much better use of Larose's money would have been to sign a big Defensive Dman like Zanon which also opens a spot for our young prospects to come up and play but the past is the past.

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I think everyone makes too much of the whole "Babchuk doesn't hit" thing. News flash, half our defense doesn't hit. Doesn't make them any less effective in playing defense. Physicality is nice to have, but it's not a necessary tool to be a defenseman. And more importantly, with Babchuk's "speed", do you really want him risking his positioning to go for a hit?

He's got a big frame, which he uses to block shots, not hit. If we lose Babchuk and Seidenberg, we lose two really good shotblockers from our team. Between the two of them, they blocked 275 shots last year. Which means 275 more shots that reach Ward, which given Ward's SV% (and assuming my math is correct) is an additional 23 goals against. Not something we need to strive for, yeah?

Totally agree with this. Babs and Seids leaving is going to have a HUGE impact on our team, far more than anyone I think really realizes. Replacing them with Kaberle and a rookie I foresee turning out to be just awful. Now the question is whether we give up Ruutu (One of our biggest gamebreakers in both the regular season and the playoffs) to replace our broken D lines or just attempt to go with Kaberle+Rookie and see how it turns out.

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My minor concern: JR and Babchuk. JR just seems to have a serious grudge here. It may be posturing, but I would think that the better way to handle this would be to give Babs a raise, sign him, then trade him. The guy has value. I wish they could get along, because Babs is going to put up some serious points in the NHL before it's over.

My slightly more major concern: forwards scoring. We have gradually declined in this area from the cup year. We have moved from proven year after year consistant point producers (Stillman, healthy Williams, health Cole, past Brind'Amour), to guys in decline (current Brindy/Cole), probably near decline (Whitney, Walker), and guys with spotty, patchy production numbers (Eaves, Sammy, Jokinen, Ruutu, LaRose, even Cullen). The only forward that does not fall into one of these categories is Staal, who is a proven producer, and still young.

So, is this crew really good for another deep run with no upgrades? I doubt it. It's not that they couldn't do it, last year showed that, but last year we got some serious breaks, and everyone is a year older. We need to upgrade by adding a proven point producing NHL veteran winger for our top line. Does not have to be world-class talent like Gaborik or Heatley or Spezza etc, but a guy like Stillman or Williams were for us. Otherwise we are going to need too many things to come together. To make a run with our current forwards we will need most of this to happen:

Brindy gets back to some kind of at least 3rd line form.

Whitney does not age, has no drop off.

Walker does not age.

Chad really is a 20 goal scorer.

Cole finds a form he has lost for years now and becomes a 1st line winger, and at least a 3rd line playoff winger.

Sammy finds consistancy.

Eaves regains his scoring touch.

Cullen returns to form.

Jokinen is consistant enough to put up near 20 goals.

I think some of these things will happen, but do we really want to need nearly all of them to happen? But add one bonefide 1st line winger and suddenly we only need 50% of these things to happen. (I pulled that percentage from my...head). The point is that this 1st line winger takes up a lot of slack from the above list, makes Staal even better, and pushes everyone down the depth chart, strengthening the team and increasing trade options.

I am very happy LaRose is back. I think he is going to put up 20 goals. I think Brindy may improve a little, but for the most part that is a weak link. Cole is not a first liner. He has shown flashes, and he might return to form, but Cole as that first line winger is not a good plan. Cole as a second or third liner is very good (a new 1st line winger could push Cole down a line).

I don't know what it should be, but JR should find a way to trade for that 1st line winger.

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I would think we could easily get more from him if he were traded rather than signed by another team.

he can't sign with another team unless it is in mother Russia! We can trade his rights and at best get a third round pick or package his rights with another player to make a trade.

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I'm sure it can happen, JR is a great GM who has always made great trades. But who do we have to give up then? To get a legitimate top-4 D-man it is going to take more than just Baboo's rights and a 3rd-4th liner like Eaves or Walker. I am just hoping it doesn't end up being Ruutu, which would beg the question if Cole and Larose were really more important than retaining Ruu.

we have over two months to sort this out, no need for a cardiac arrest about it now, let JR work his magic.

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he can't sign with another team unless it is in mother Russia! We can trade his rights and at best get a third round pick or package his rights with another player to make a trade.

No, that's not how RFA works. Any other team can come and offer him say $2 million a year. If he accepts this deal we have the right either to match this offer and sign him or if we chose not to the team that does sign him simply has to give us a 3rd round draft pick (The round and # of picks gets higher as the player salary increases). We have no say in the matter except whether to match another teams offer or let him go.

With this said it is right to say he has a lot more value if we trade his rights then just being compensated with a 3rd round draft pick, we just need to get on the ball and get a deal done before the offer sheets come.

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The other option for Babchuk is that another team makes an offer sheet on him and they only have to give us a third round draft pick in compensation. I think Babchuk is a solid D-man and a much better bet at a much cheaper price than we will find anywhere else.

And the issue isn't that we have no time left. It is that after (Or if) we sign Ruutu for $2-3 million we will already be at a salary cap of over $50-51 million which is already above our budget from last year. We obviously need to make a trade for a top-4 D-man and I was looking for peoples opinions on who they are willing to give up? It will have to be Babchuk's rights + something. Whether that something is future draft picks, a prospect, a decent player (other teams won't want to take on Eaves/Walker's salaries for the type players they are), What is the price we are willing to pay? And you also have to factor in that we must keep below the Revenue Sharing limit to qualify for revenue sharing which will definitely be below $52-53 million.

given Babchuk's attitude issues, I don't forsee ANY GM giving him an offer sheet given that it will cost a third rounder (or higher depending on the $$, remember the draft pick is based on the dollar amount of offer - $2mil = third rounder, $6mil = first rounder). Babs isn't that good, only JayBo could command that kind of interest.

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I truly think that the qualifying offer JR made Ruutu was about $2.5-2.75 million and if he get awarded $3.5 in arbitration that JR will let him go for being too expensive. It is very unfortunate but probably a reality of our cash-strapped team. Babchuk+Eaves+ a prospect/pick could probably fetch a low-end top-4 defenseman from a team in a tight position but I really don't think we can afford to take on an extra $2-3 million in salary in the deal especially if we re-sign Ruutu. It just seems to me that a much better use of Larose's money would have been to sign a big Defensive Dman like Zanon which also opens a spot for our young prospects to come up and play but the past is the past.

whoa whoa whoa, where do you get arbitration?? that route usually happens when both sides aren't talking, JR is in constant contact with Ruutu agent. take it easy, step away from the ledge, everything will be ok.

also we don't need to move on defense until we unload some of what we have (Kabs).

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he can't sign with another team unless it is in mother Russia! We can trade his rights and at best get a third round pick or package his rights with another player to make a trade.

I thought RFA's could be approached w/ an offer sheet from another team and if they sign with that team then our team would get compensatory picks based on the salary?

EDIT: what dangermouse said

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I thought RFA's could be approached w/ an offer sheet from another team and if they sign with that team then our team would get compensatory picks based on the salary?

EDIT: what dangermouse said

Currently we can ONLY trade his rights because he isn't under contract. If he were to sign an offer sheet then we can either match and keep him or get picks. The only way to trade him and get something other than a third rounder in return is to sign him and then trade him.

I took your comment as saying he could just sign with a team like a UFA.

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No, that's not how RFA works. Any other team can come and offer him say $2 million a year. If he accepts this deal we have the right either to match this offer and sign him or if we chose not to the team that does sign him simply has to give us a 3rd round draft pick (The round and # of picks gets higher as the player salary increases). We have no say in the matter except whether to match another teams offer or let him go.

With this said it is right to say he has a lot more value if we trade his rights then just being compensated with a 3rd round draft pick, we just need to get on the ball and get a deal done before the offer sheets come.

do you seriously think that their are a ton of offer sheets out there just waiting to be presented?? if that were the case do you really think JR would low ball him and tell him he can go play in Russia? I am sure JR's issues with Bab's attitude are well known to other GM's which is why Chicago gave up on him. You grossly over estimate Babs value.

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whoa whoa whoa, where do you get arbitration?? that route usually happens when both sides aren't talking, JR is in constant contact with Ruutu agent. take it easy, step away from the ledge, everything will be ok.

also we don't need to move on defense until we unload some of what we have (Kabs).

No this route usually happens when the two sides can't reach an agreement on a salary price. You were the one who said he would be compared to Clowe for $3.5 million right? My point was that JR probably offered him only $2.5-2.75, if he offered him $3.5 in the first place didn't you think he would have already taken it? They said his QO was out when Jokinen signed so it has been out for at least a couple days.

A third round pick for a FIRST round overall pick (Babchuk) at a very low salary cost is not that big of a price to pay for another team. You think other teams didn't notice that he was top-3 in defensemen goals in the whole NHL since January? I doubt it.

We have gotten ourselves into the position where we are already at our budget, even more than our budget if we end up having to pay Ruutu $3+ million. Why put ourselves in the position of making it an absolute requirement to make a trade for a top-4 defensemen lest we be stuck with a third D-pairing of Kaberle+Rookie?

Edit: And where are we going to unload Kabs? Noone in their right mind is ever going to take him. We tried multiple times last season and there was no interest whatsoever. We are stuck with Kaberle until the end of next season.

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No this route usually happens when the two sides can't reach an agreement on a salary price. You were the one who said he would be compared to Clowe for $3.5 million right? My point was that JR probably offered him only $2.5-2.75, if he offered him $3.5 in the first place didn't you think he would have already taken it? They said his QO was out when Jokinen signed so it has been out for at least a couple days.

A third round pick for a FIRST round overall pick (Babchuk) at a very low salary cost is not that big of a price to pay for another team. You think other teams didn't notice that he was top-3 in defensemen goals in the whole NHL since January? I doubt it.

We have gotten ourselves into the position where we are already at our budget, even more than our budget if we end up having to pay Ruutu $3+ million. Why put ourselves in the position of making it an absolute requirement to make a trade for a top-4 defensemen lest we be stuck with a third D-pairing of Kaberle+Rookie?

I didn't compare him (Ruutu) to Clowe (don't know who that player is). Do you really think JR would lowball Babs if he had the kind of value you place on him? You are blowing all of this way out of proportion.

JR will have to find the right combination in order to unload Kabs, it can be done - we just need to find someone that covets something we are willing to give up (i.e. the Kings gave us Gleason and a forward for Turnoverdorsky and JJ - it can happen).

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I didn't compare him (Ruutu) to Clowe (don't know who that player is). Do you really think JR would lowball Babs if he had the kind of value you place on him? You are blowing all of this way out of proportion.

JR will have to find the right combination in order to unload Kabs, it can be done - we just need to find someone that covets something we are willing to give up (i.e. the Kings gave us Gleason and a forward for Turnoverdorsky and JJ - it can happen).

Babchuk was either 1st or 2nd (Behind Mike Green) in goals by a Defensemen in the whole NHL since January. He was drafted 21st overall in 2002 and he is only 25 years old. He has a TON of potential and at least more value than a third round draft pick.

And is your Gleason comment a joke? We didn't trade JJ to LA for the purpose of getting Gleason, we were forced to trade JJ because he refused to play for us. JJ was the 3rd overall pick in the 2005 draft and we basically got robbed in that trade. That would be like Colorado being forced to trade Duchene for a mediocre first line Winger like Ray Whitney. JJ still today has far more trade value than Gleason and is still slated to easily become a 1st pairing star defenseman.

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Just for reference for you players that were picked after we picked 3rd overall Jack Johnson which later was traded for Gleason as you referenced were: Carey Price, Devin Setoguchi, Anze Kopitar, Marc Staal, TJ Oshie, Andrew Cogliano, ect. Heck Bobby Ryan and Sidney Crosby were the only 2 players taken higher than we took JJ.

I'd take any of these star players in a heartbeat over Gleason. I'd take JJ in a heartbeat over Gleason even with his off-ice issues. That trade is not a good example.

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