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Playing GM for the 2009-2010 Season

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I didn't compare him (Ruutu) to Clowe (don't know who that player is). Do you really think JR would lowball Babs if he had the kind of value you place on him? You are blowing all of this way out of proportion.

JR will have to find the right combination in order to unload Kabs, it can be done - we just need to find someone that covets something we are willing to give up (i.e. the Kings gave us Gleason and a forward for Turnoverdorsky and JJ - it can happen).

:rolleyes:

The difference is, the value that JJ had offsets the salary they would have taken on by taking Turnover. In this case, we don't have anyone that we would be willing to give up that would offset the fact they would have to take Kaberle.

And yes, JR would lowball Babs, because this whole thing is about him holding a grudge over the Russia thing. No reasonable GM would offer a 25-year old defenseman who just scored 16 goals for you last season the same amount that he was making before.

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You grossly over estimate Babs value.

Out of all of the dmen in the NHL last regular season, how many scored 16 or more goals? I can't quite remember. Also out of all of the dmen that scored 15 or more goals, how many were under the age of 25? Babchuk isn't given enough credit in my opinion. He's a former first round pick for a reason.

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:rolleyes:

The difference is, the value that JJ had offsets the salary they would have taken on by taking Turnover. In this case, we don't have anyone that we would be willing to give up that would offset the fact they would have to take Kaberle.

And yes, JR would lowball Babs, because this whole thing is about him holding a grudge over the Russia thing. No reasonable GM would offer a 25-year old defenseman who just scored 16 goals for you last season the same amount that he was making before.

Completely agree. I think JR really handled the Babchuk situation very badly. Right after the season ended he came out and bluntly told the media: Since Babchuk went to play in Russia 2 years ago he has no arbitration rights he will take what we give him or he will be heading back to Russia.

What kind of GM says that about one of their players? Especially to the media? Did he think Babchuk would hear this and be happy about it and make him want to come back and play next year? Why didn't JR come out and acknowledge Babchuck's great end to the season and say he really hopes he can have him back on the team next year instead? I know if I were a player and my GM said that about me I would be very upset.

What if your boss at your job came and told you during re-evaluations in which pay raises were being given out to everyone but you "Hey, I don't like you and the job market sucks right now so if you wanna have a job next year you are going to take whatever I am willing to offer you or you can go work at McDonalds."

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Completely agree. I think JR really handled the Babchuk situation very badly. Right after the season ended he came out and bluntly told the media: Since Babchuk went to play in Russia 2 years ago he has no arbitration rights he will take what we give him or he will be heading back to Russia.

What kind of GM says that about one of their players? Especially to the media? Did he think Babchuk would hear this and be happy about it and make him want to come back and play next year? Why didn't JR come out and acknowledge Babchuk's great end to the season and say he really hopes he can have him back on the team next year instead? I know if I were a player and my GM said that about me I would be very upset.

What if your boss at your job came and told you during re-evaluations in which pay raises were being given out to everyone but you "Hey, I don't like you and the job market sucks right now so if you wanna have a job next year you are going to take whatever I am willing to offer you or you can go work at McDonald's."

I own my company so I don't have a boss and haven't for at least a decade or more so maybe I am having a problem relating to your example. And given the current job market not to many people would gripe, better to have a job with no raise than no job. And you really shouldn't pick on McDonald's, quiet a few folks started there making minimum wage and now own their own or several stores.

You really are overreacting to the Babchuk situation. I have been a fan of his for a long time but he dug this hole with JR and only he can get out of it. If he were smart he would take the one year deal because he would be a UFA at the end of next season and be in control.

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:rolleyes:

The difference is, the value that JJ had offsets the salary they would have taken on by taking Turnover. In this case, we don't have anyone that we would be willing to give up that would offset the fact they would have to take Kaberle.

And yes, JR would lowball Babs, because this whole thing is about him holding a grudge over the Russia thing. No reasonable GM would offer a 25-year old defenseman who just scored 16 goals for you last season the same amount that he was making before.

I agree in that I didn't like the idea of JR offering him what he made last year but you gotta look big picture. One more year and he is a UFA, then the shoe will be on the other foot.

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Babchuk was either 1st or 2nd (Behind Mike Green) in goals by a Defensemen in the whole NHL since January. He was drafted 21st overall in 2002 and he is only 25 years old. He has a TON of potential and at least more value than a third round draft pick.

And is your Gleason comment a joke? We didn't trade JJ to LA for the purpose of getting Gleason, we were forced to trade JJ because he refused to play for us. JJ was the 3rd overall pick in the 2005 draft and we basically got robbed in that trade. That would be like Colorado being forced to trade Duchene for a mediocre first line Winger like Ray Whitney. JJ still today has far more trade value than Gleason and is still slated to easily become a 1st pairing star defenseman.

I realize why we traded JJ, we needed to unload Turnoverdorsky and we had an asset that all but stated he wouldn't play here. In order to get LA to eat that salary we had to give them something they wanted. JJ will always be a head case and I will take Gleason anyday!!

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Out of all of the dmen in the NHL last regular season, how many scored 16 or more goals? I can't quite remember. Also out of all of the dmen that scored 15 or more goals, how many were under the age of 25? Babchuk isn't given enough credit in my opinion. He's a former first round pick for a reason.

by the name of the position he plays, he is not on the ice to score goals but to prevent them. You have to look at his defensive play FIRST, goals are a bonus!! If he was a forward and scored that many you would be saying "this guy sucks we need to trade him for Gionta".

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I agree in that I didn't like the idea of JR offering him what he made last year but you gotta look big picture. One more year and he is a UFA, then the shoe will be on the other foot.

The big picture is, he's earned the right to a big payday. He can't head to Russia if he ever wants to play in the NHL again (which, if his statements from last season are true, he does). So that option's completely out the window. His only option is to take JR's offer.

However, if he accepts to play for that offer, how much do you believe he'll get as a UFA? GMs typically don't like to go too high over a player's previous salary when making an offer. So if he accepts playing for a million this year, and plays just as well as he did last year, when he hits the UFA, the offers he'll receive will be far less than what they would have been if he played for say...1.75 this upcoming season.

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by the name of the position he plays, he is not on the ice to score goals but to prevent them. You have to look at his defensive play FIRST, goals are a bonus!! If he was a forward and scored that many you would be saying "this guy sucks we need to trade him for Gionta".

And his defensive play isn't poor enough to disregard the 16 goals he scored. Since the majority of his goals were on the powerplay, which don't count for the +/-, there has to be a reason why his +/- was so high. It indicates his defensive play is far better than you're giving it credit for.

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Just for reference for you players that were picked after we picked 3rd overall Jack Johnson which later was traded for Gleason as you referenced were: Carey Price, Devin Setoguchi, Anze Kopitar, Marc Staal, TJ Oshie, Andrew Cogliano, ect. Heck Bobby Ryan and Sidney Crosby were the only 2 players taken higher than we took JJ.

I'd take any of these star players in a heartbeat over Gleason. I'd take JJ in a heartbeat over Gleason even with his off-ice issues. That trade is not a good example.

You're joking right? The only guy I'd consider taking over Gleason is Kopitar. This team would be nowhere without Tim Gleason. You would take Jack Johnson over Tim Gleason? I really hope you are trying to be funny. If we still had JJ, we would have Corvo, Pitkanen, Babs, Kaberle, JJ as offensive defenseman and only 1 defensive D-man in Nic Wallin. Gleason will be our shutdown D-man for years to come, and I consider the trade for Gleason a steal in my book. Jack Johnson = BUST

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You wouldn't take Marc Staal over Gleason? At the time the whole JJ fiasco was going on, Marc was mentioned as the player we would have taken had we known JJ wouldn't play for Carolina.

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You wouldn't take Marc Staal over Gleason? At the time the whole JJ fiasco was going on, Marc was mentioned as the player we would have taken had we known JJ wouldn't play for Carolina.

Whoops, I didn't see Staal there he would be the only other one. I thought he was drafted the year after.

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What I don't like about the way J.R. handled this is that he said basically that Babs has earned more money but since he doesn't have any bargaining rights, he can take the QO or leave it. I'd say that Babs did better than most of us thought he would do (I know the drawbacks too). Why say that he deserves more but since I don't have to do anything more I won't? Is that they motivated player you want in your locker room?

It sounds like something a vindictive ex wife would do. A few of us here know all about that. On appearances, it seems like J.R. is more interested in sticking it to Babs than making a sound business decision. Again, what do I know about managing a professional sports franchise?

I also know I'm probably in the minority here too when it comes to bringing more of the Staal boys here. I don't want a deal like the Sedins where you have to deal with them as a group. Make one mad and have the whole bunch mad. No thank you.

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The Staal brothers don't want to play with each other anyway. While they haven't come out and said that (to my knowledge), they've left big enough hints in their interviews to draw that conclusion.

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The Staal brothers don't want to play with each other anyway. While they haven't come out and said that (to my knowledge), they've left big enough hints in their interviews to draw that conclusion.

I believe I have heard Eric flat out say that in an interview.

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I truly think that the qualifying offer JR made Ruutu was about $2.5-2.75 million and if he get awarded $3.5 in arbitration that JR will let him go for being too expensive. It is very unfortunate but probably a reality of our cash-strapped team. Babchuk+Eaves+ a prospect/pick could probably fetch a low-end top-4 defenseman from a team in a tight position but I really don't think we can afford to take on an extra $2-3 million in salary in the deal especially if we re-sign Ruutu. It just seems to me that a much better use of Larose's money would have been to sign a big Defensive Dman like Zanon which also opens a spot for our young prospects to come up and play but the past is the past.

You do realize that JR isn't just offering Ruutu's qualifying offer. He was given his qualifier in order to hold his rights but JR has said once he got his UFAs signed (Cole/LaRose) he would work on getting Ruutu signed. Which means, JR is given him more than just his qualifier which they are negotiating on right now. He will likely get in the $3-3.5M range. JR has his players slotted in different ranges which is why he needed to keep Cole and Larose under a certain amount to keep them slotted in the range he had them at.

EDIT: to add, if LaRose doubled his salary, you can expect Ruutu to atleast get $1M raise which is why I say he is in the $3-3.5M range.

And is your Gleason comment a joke? We didn't trade JJ to LA for the purpose of getting Gleason, we were forced to trade JJ because he refused to play for us. JJ was the 3rd overall pick in the 2005 draft and we basically got robbed in that trade. That would be like Colorado being forced to trade Duchene for a mediocre first line Winger like Ray Whitney. JJ still today has far more trade value than Gleason and is still slated to easily become a 1st pairing star defenseman.

Your right and wrong. We traded JJ b/c he wouldn't sign with the club, but this org has had their eye on Gleason since he was in Ottawa's system. So in essence we did trade JJ to LA for the purporse of Gleason.

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The big picture is, he's earned the right to a big payday. He can't head to Russia if he ever wants to play in the NHL again (which, if his statements from last season are true, he does). So that option's completely out the window. His only option is to take JR's offer.

However, if he accepts to play for that offer, how much do you believe he'll get as a UFA? GMs typically don't like to go too high over a player's previous salary when making an offer. So if he accepts playing for a million this year, and plays just as well as he did last year, when he hits the UFA, the offers he'll receive will be far less than what they would have been if he played for say...1.75 this upcoming season.

that would all depend on how he did this upcoming season I would guess but more importantly he will have control of where he plays and for how long.

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What I don't like about the way J.R. handled this is that he said basically that Babs has earned more money but since he doesn't have any bargaining rights, he can take the QO or leave it. I'd say that Babs did better than most of us thought he would do (I know the drawbacks too). Why say that he deserves more but since I don't have to do anything more I won't? Is that they motivated player you want in your locker room?

It sounds like something a vindictive ex wife would do. A few of us here know all about that. On appearances, it seems like J.R. is more interested in sticking it to Babs than making a sound business decision. Again, what do I know about managing a professional sports franchise?

I also know I'm probably in the minority here too when it comes to bringing more of the Staal boys here. I don't want a deal like the Sedins where you have to deal with them as a group. Make one mad and have the whole bunch mad. No thank you.

some of us more than others!!

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Just for reference for you players that were picked after we picked 3rd overall Jack Johnson which later was traded for Gleason as you referenced were: Carey Price, Devin Setoguchi, Anze Kopitar, Marc Staal, TJ Oshie, Andrew Cogliano, ect. Heck Bobby Ryan and Sidney Crosby were the only 2 players taken higher than we took JJ.

I'd take any of these star players in a heartbeat over Gleason. I'd take JJ in a heartbeat over Gleason even with his off-ice issues. That trade is not a good example.

.....you mean you'd even overlook the off-ice issue that is he didn't want to play for the Carolina Hurricanes...that's a big one to overlook.

I didn't know anyone had rose colored glasses on for Johnson anymore......

When you consider how little Ladd and Johnson did for this organization after picking them it is pretty amazing to consider that we won a Cup, made the ECF's another time and still looks to be at least a pretty good team next year before some of our young guys are ready.

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And his defensive play isn't poor enough to disregard the 16 goals he scored. Since the majority of his goals were on the powerplay, which don't count for the +/-, there has to be a reason why his +/- was so high. It indicates his defensive play is far better than you're giving it credit for.

I have been a big fan of Babs since he came here, never quite understood why Lavi had him play the press box. Of everyone on the ice the last half of the season, IMO Babs was hands down THE MOST IMPROVED. The one thing I am thankful of Maurice for is playing Babs alot and giving him the chance to prove what he can do. The only point I was making is that it comes across to me that dangermouse is saying "lets pay him lots because he scores goals" and that shouldn't be the case. For a defenseman to score 16 goals is huge but not so much for a forward. So in my book those 16 goals was a bonus above and beyond his defensive play.

For the record, I am not a big fan of what JR did but it is what it is so he can either play or move on. I am hoping that a week from now they will play nice and after we sign Ruutu they will sign Babs and up the dollar amount (at least to $1.5mil).

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With the team near the top of it's self imposed salary cap we are still short a D-Man and we still have to resign Ruutu. The only possible way to achieve this is to move some salary. Possible candidates to be moved to free up some monies are Whitney, Cullen, Brindamour, Walker, Corvo, Kaberle and Wallin. The most marketable and expendable of these players which would free up some money to resign Ruutu and get a D-Man in return is Cullen. I could see J.R. packaging Cullen with Babchuk for a D-Man in the 1.0 - 1.5 million dollar range.

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With the team near the top of it's self imposed salary cap we are still short a D-Man and we still have to resign Ruutu. The only possible way to achieve this is to move some salary. Possible candidates to be moved to free up some monies are Whitney, Cullen, Brindamour, Walker, Corvo, Kaberle and Wallin. The most marketable and expendable of these players which would free up some money to resign Ruutu and get a D-Man in return is Cullen. I could see J.R. packaging Cullen with Babchuk for a D-Man in the 1.0 - 1.5 million dollar range.

I don't get why people CONSTANTLY name Brindy as someone we will trade. People - that ain't happening.

Wallin has a NTC and loves it here. How many times has that been said?

We have TRIED to get rid of Kabs - his contract is way too high.

Corvo was probably our best D man last year - he was out work horse - he ain't going anywhere.

I'm not a big Scott Walker fan - get's hurt too much and is paid a lot of dough for what he does. If we could move him, I think we should. Once again, however, don't think anyone would jump on that.

Cullen ain't going anywhere. We've already learned how important to this team he is when he left.

Whitney? Our leading scorer last year?

I just don't get what people are thinking sometimes....

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With the team near the top of it's self imposed salary cap we are still short a D-Man and we still have to resign Ruutu. The only possible way to achieve this is to move some salary. Possible candidates to be moved to free up some monies are Whitney, Cullen, Brindamour, Walker, Corvo, Kaberle and Wallin. The most marketable and expendable of these players which would free up some money to resign Ruutu and get a D-Man in return is Cullen. I could see J.R. packaging Cullen with Babchuk for a D-Man in the 1.0 - 1.5 million dollar range.

I'll agree that a trade is possible, but not some of the guys you mention.

Whitney-a trade possibility if (big if) one of our young guns shows up big in training camp or early in the season. I don't see how Ray Ray gets traded before the season starts. He is one of our only consistent scorers. His salary would be a good amount to use on a d-man.

Cullen-also unlikely to be traded before the season starts. Brindy would have to come back and be the Roddy of old in order for Cullen to be moved. Also Sutter would have to be a big contributor.

Brind'amour-Nobody in the league is taking Brindy until he shows what he has left in the tank. The only way Roddy is moved would be if he has a resurgence and the Canes are sellers at the deadline. That isn't going to help now.

Walker-too expensive now for a 3rd/4th liner. Injuries have slowed him down. Has a no trade clause.

Corvo-you hit a possibility here but trading a good d-man at a reasonable salary isn't going to help us when we need defensive help. I don't see this one.

Kaberle and Wallin-come on. Don't go down that road again. Wallin isn't going to waive his NTC. Nobody would take Kabs on waivers (twice) last year and he has a NTC also.

My idea of some other guys who would be possible trade bait:

Samsonov-I like Sammy but he is another smallish forward who could be replaced in the lineup by a youngster, maybe. He has a reasonable salary and has had a resurgence in Carolina. A team looking for offensive help may consider him. Moving Sammy would save a decent amount to be used on a d-man.

Eaves-another guy I like and who I think is underated. He has struggled or the team has struggled in finding his role on the team. He has top 9 talent but hasn't stuck in the top 9. He's too expensive to play the 4th line and really isn't a special teams player either. If J.R. and Mo have decided that Eaves isn't a top 9 forward, I'd say he would be the first to go if a taker could be found but he wouldn't save a ton of money.

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I don't get why people CONSTANTLY name Brindy as someone we will trade. People - that ain't happening.

Wallin has a NTC and loves it here. How many times has that been said?

We have TRIED to get rid of Kabs - his contract is way too high.

Corvo was probably our best D man last year - he was out work horse - he ain't going anywhere.

I'm not a big Scott Walker fan - get's hurt too much and is paid a lot of dough for what he does. If we could move him, I think we should. Once again, however, don't think anyone would jump on that.

Cullen ain't going anywhere. We've already learned how important to this team he is when he left.

Whitney? Our leading scorer last year?

I just don't get what people are thinking sometimes....

Instead of *edit* on my post maybe you could offer a solution as to how we will get another D-Man and resign Ruutu with no money. I am aware of and agree with most of the reasons why we could not trade the players listed above. However we now have at least six or seven players in our top fifteen forwards who have played at the center position. This was not the case the first time we traded Cullen when we had little or no depth at center. I realize Cullen is a valuable member of our team which is what makes him marketable.

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With the team near the top of it's self imposed salary cap we are still short a D-Man and we still have to resign Ruutu. The only possible way to achieve this is to move some salary. Possible candidates to be moved to free up some monies are Whitney, Cullen, Brindamour, Walker, Corvo, Kaberle and Wallin. The most marketable and expendable of these players which would free up some money to resign Ruutu and get a D-Man in return is Cullen. I could see J.R. packaging Cullen with Babchuk for a D-Man in the 1.0 - 1.5 million dollar range.

See I get a lot of flack from my friends for not being happy about the Larose signing and this is why. We have lost 1/3 of our D and have almost no cash to replace it. Why didn't we just spend the $1.7 on Zanon or equivalent instead and have an open roster spot for a young prospect. It will be impossible to move Wallin, Kaberle, Brind'Amour, and Walker due to no one wanting or NTC. It would be a mistake to get rid of Corvo, we have to move a forward to acquire a D. In the end we might end up losing out on Ruutu which would be much worse in my opinion than losing Cole or Larose. I can't imagine JR thinks we will be a better team next year having the same forwards and down two of our top 6 defensemen, the question is just who ends up going?

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