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Canes-Fan-In-Montreal

Playing GM for the 2009-2010 Season

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that would explain alot!! But it looks like he misspelled the last name, if you are gonna have a huge man crush you should at least have enough respect to spell the man's name right.

eh, I probly spelled it wrong but its the same guy Im sure. ALso goes by the name of Kahz here from what Ive read. :lol:

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He isn't the player this team needs to fill out the top 4 and therefore probably isnt worth the extra money JR would have to spend on him for one year. Comparing Corvo to Babchuk as far as defensive liabilty is complete nonsense. Corvo might be one of the most underrated players when it comes to his defensive ability. Keep blabbering about the GD goals, he's a defenseman. When your need is a defensive D-man to fill out the top 4, goals are not what youre looking for. And again, his shot is effective when he is left uncovered at the point with plenty of time, if he's pressured he's likely to turn it over. Mike Green? wow.

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eh, I probly spelled it wrong but its the same guy Im sure. ALso goes by the name of Kahz here from what Ive read. :lol:

i am not sure, Kahz seems to think thru what he/she post.

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He isn't the player this team needs to fill out the top 4 and therefore probably isnt worth the extra money JR would have to spend on him for one year. Comparing Corvo to Babchuk as far as defensive liabilty is complete nonsense. Corvo might be one of the most underrated players when it comes to his defensive ability. Keep blabbering about the GD goals, he's a defenseman. When your need is a defensive D-man to fill out the top 4, goals are not what youre looking for. And again, his shot is effective when he is left uncovered at the point with plenty of time, if he's pressured he's likely to turn it over. Mike Green? wow.

Exactly, the goals are just a bonus. He is paid to play defense.

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Well, I wouldn't say I have a man crush on Babchuk. But, I do believe he played well enough after Lavi left and was given a chance by Mo to earn a raise over the QO. And I still believe holding a grudge against a player, if in fact there is one, should have resulted in JR not bringing him back in the first place. I have yet to hear any speculation that makes sense on why that happened if your argument against Babchuk is his previous actions and his attitude.

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I will say this: Babchuk screwed himself by going to Russia and losing his arbitration rights. There's also a decent argument to be made that he's NOT a top 4 defenseman.

We need a top 4 Dman. If we thought he was a top 4 he would be signed by now.

If any of this ... vehemence... is real, then I see Babs either getting an offer sheet and leaving or sucking it up and taking the 1 year deal, then taking off. We'll try to deal him to get something back for him.

His options are limited. That year in Russia cost him. I don't think we will invest much more for 1 year to watch him walk but

we might offer him a little more. Another team may take the chance on him but I don't think we would get a lot in return.

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I will say this: Babchuk screwed himself by going to Russia and losing his arbitration rights. There's also a decent argument to be made that he's NOT a top 4 defenseman.

We need a top 4 Dman. If we thought he was a top 4 he would be signed by now.

If any of this ... vehemence... is real, then I see Babs either getting an offer sheet and leaving or sucking it up and taking the 1 year deal, then taking off. We'll try to deal him to get something back for him.

His options are limited. That year in Russia cost him. I don't think we will invest much more for 1 year to watch him walk but

we might offer him a little more. Another team may take the chance on him but I don't think we would get a lot in return.

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Well, I wouldn't say I have a man crush on Babchuk. But, I do believe he played well enough after Lavi left and was given a chance by Mo to earn a raise over the QO. And I still believe holding a grudge against a player, if in fact there is one, should have resulted in JR not bringing him back in the first place. I have yet to hear any speculation that makes sense on why that happened if your argument against Babchuk is his previous actions and his attitude.

I have nothing against Babs, sure he made a few mistakes but don't we all plus he is young. Apparently though there is something going on between him and JR that we just aren't privy to hence the low ball offer. The thing is seems that most folks don't understand is posting all his stats and such here doesn't do much to change the situation with JR.

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I know you don't want to see it, but attitude and Babchuk have been in the same sentence since he was drafted. The attitude just didn't come out when he didn't report to Albany 2 years ago. He had attitude in Chicago and he has shown that attitude here. Let's not forget that he threw a water bottle at a fan in the AHL.

Again, evidence would be nice (or essential, in this case). Yes, Babchuk had attitude issues in the past. There's no denying that. However, that seems to be all anyone brings up when it comes to his attitude. Has there been any evidence of a "bad attitude" since returning to the team? I haven't heard of anything. In fact, the only time I've seen anyone mention Babchuk's attitude is during his "streak" at the end of the season, where they mentioned him feeling more confident in his abilities.

To claim we have to let him go because of a "bad attitude" is ignoring a player's abilities and deciding his fate solely on his past. I'm sure most are aware of Corvo's past. Should we condemn him because of that as well?

But speaking of evidence, I've provided plenty of evidence to show why Babchuk isn't as poor defensively as some of you claim. I'd like to see evidence to the contrary for once. And before anyone points to the playoffs, I'll show this:

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The replay shows it all. Getting down, blocking the passing lane, getting up, getting in position and laying into a shot that's always going to create a rebound.

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Sorry to interrupt "the Great Babchuk debate" but can we all just agree to move on? The same few keep arguing against while the same few keep posting in his defense. No one is offering anything new and the whole topic is way beyond being beaten to death. Its getting annoying to log on to see if there's anything new being discussed only to find the same tired argument about a player that neither side is ever going to get the other side to think the way that they do about the whole situation.

Its been argued for 2 years now and I personally hope that JR either gets a contract signed or cuts him loose for good. Honestly, can we find something else to discuss?

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I guess some feel he should be given a free pass for his past actions (failure to report, suspension, skipping out on a contract) because of his stats. The way I see it, he's lucky to even be in the league at this point. My evidence that he is for the most part a defensive liabilty comes from the 82+ games I watched last year. I dont need a youtube video to prove my eyes wrong. It doesnt matter in the end though because he's obviously not what JR feels is a defensive d-man to fill out the top 4 or he would have already been signed for more money.

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You can't compare the games he played under Lavi and those he played under Mo. Lavi seemed to agree with you and gave him much less ice time. Or was it a coincidence that his play dramatically improved when Mo came on?

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Honestly, can we find something else to discuss?

Well, talk to Jimmy and get him to do something and we will have something else to discuss.

There's always:

Ward is average at best

Staal is over rated

Brindy has lost it

or my personal favorite....

We need to trade Kaberle and Wallin

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You can't compare the games he played under Lavi and those he played under Mo. Lavi seemed to agree with you and gave him much less ice time. Or was it a coincidence that his play dramatically improved when Mo came on?

I wasn't, he along with the entire team scored more under MO and his puck handling abilities improved when he got more time, but his D-zone play to me, was always sketchy.

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I cant believe nobody has mentioned recycling Hedican.

I am waiting for the "Bring Back Irbe because Cam is average at best" thread.

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Sorry TSA but I've read over and over here praise for JR for his ability to find players on the verge of the scrap heap and turn it to our advantage playing on our team under our system. For example, Samsonov, Corvo, Jokinen, Eaves, etc. It wasn't too long ago that everyone was praising Babchuk on his new found ability to hit the net with that monster slapper of his and how he is a player we need to resign. So JR lowballs him and everyone jumps ship and is ready to throw him out on the street because he suddenly has an "attitude."

Personally, I don't find that discussion boring, because our defensive core as it stands now is something I'm not sure I want to start the season with.

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This is pretty ignorant. Babchuk scored 16 goals basically all of which were in the 2nd half of the season when he actually got playing time and you don't think he is worth $1 million? He is worth at LEAST $1.5-2 million. Open your eyes and look at every other single Dman in the league. Every single top-4 Dman especially ones with high offensive potential hover around what Corvo makes ($2.6-4 million a year). He was top 5 in plus/minus for our team! Who cares if Pitkanen makes up for his mistakes, Pitkanen could STILL make up for his mistakes next year and Babs could easily be a 20+ goal scorer.

How could you possibly call Babchuk a defensive liability when we have Corvo (who could really care less about defense) and Kaberle (easily the worst defensman in the league for what he makes) who are much older. I think anyone who says that Babs isn't worth signing for a long time at $1.5-2 million a year is an ignorant fool. Babs was a first round overall draft pick and has just turned 25 years old which is when most defenseman begin to show their true skill. You don't have to jump on JR's side just because he has a serious grudge against him for some reason.

Anyone who thinks Babchuk is a Top 4 defenseman needs to take the Babchuk colored glasses off.

And you seriously don't care about his mistakes on defense, the position he plays. So if he scores 16 goals, are you ok with this team giving up 30 goals b/c Babchuk was a) out of position, 2) couldn't keep the puck in at the blue line and 3) too slow.

You put him on the top 4 and we are going to get killed. A coach will be salivating at the mouth knowing he can put Ovechkin, Crosby, Kessel, Gaborik, Parise, Zajac, etc out on the ice when #33 steps out. These guys will walk all over Babchuk, hence he is NOT a Top 4 defenseman. Can he be a Top 4 defenseman, sure he has the potential, but to say he is one now is crazy.

And yes he is a defensive liability. Atleast Kaberle actually looks like he knows what he is doing when he has the puck in his end. Babchuk, spazzes out and ends up turning it over on a consistant basis.

And I'll ask again, if he's such a great defensemen who is worth $1.5-2M, then why hasn't a team made him an offer?

Edit: I'm not jumping on JRs side. I've nicknamed Babchuk, Spazzchuk, for a reason. There's a reason I found myself yelling at him just about every game. I form my own opinions, I just happen to agree with JR on this one.

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Personally, I don't find that discussion boring, because our defensive core as it stands now is something I'm not sure I want to start the season with.

And how is Babchuk going to fill what most of us can agree are some holes on defense? Personally, I think we need a player who can bang bodies down low and control the front of the net and he's not that guy.

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Sorry TSA but I've read over and over here praise for JR for his ability to find players on the verge of the scrap heap and turn it to our advantage playing on our team under our system. For example, Samsonov, Corvo, Jokinen, Eaves, etc. It wasn't too long ago that everyone was praising Babchuk on his new found ability to hit the net with that monster slapper of his and how he is a player we need to resign. So JR lowballs him and everyone jumps ship and is ready to throw him out on the street because he suddenly has an "attitude."

Personally, I don't find that discussion boring, because our defensive core as it stands now is something I'm not sure I want to start the season with.

I agree coastal this is the best discussion going right now. I don't agree with all your saying about Babs but you are making good points. I think if we sign him we sign him and if we don't we don't. Until that happens he should be open for discussion.

Sorry TSA but maybe you can point us in a new direction!

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Sorry TSA but I've read over and over here praise for JR for his ability to find players on the verge of the scrap heap and turn it to our advantage playing on our team under our system. For example, Samsonov, Corvo, Jokinen, Eaves, etc. It wasn't too long ago that everyone was praising Babchuk on his new found ability to hit the net with that monster slapper of his and how he is a player we need to resign. So JR lowballs him and everyone jumps ship and is ready to throw him out on the street because he suddenly has an "attitude."

Personally, I don't find that discussion boring, because our defensive core as it stands now is something I'm not sure I want to start the season with.

I agree coastal this is the best discussion going right now. I don't agree with all your saying about Babs but you are making good points. I think if we sign him we sign him and if we don't we don't. Until that happens he should be open for discussion.

Sorry TSA but maybe you can point us in a new direction!

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Sorry TSA but I've read over and over here praise for JR for his ability to find players on the verge of the scrap heap and turn it to our advantage playing on our team under our system. For example, Samsonov, Corvo, Jokinen, Eaves, etc. It wasn't too long ago that everyone was praising Babchuk on his new found ability to hit the net with that monster slapper of his and how he is a player we need to resign. So JR lowballs him and everyone jumps ship and is ready to throw him out on the street because he suddenly has an "attitude."

Personally, I don't find that discussion boring, because our defensive core as it stands now is something I'm not sure I want to start the season with.

Fair enough, I really only have an issue when the discussion turns into insults, name calling and repetetive comments by the same few over and over who think the only way to be heard to post their opinion as many times as possible.

Carry on and thanks for being rational about why you think the discussion has value.

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I agree coastal this is the best discussion going right now. I don't agree with all your saying about Babs but you are making good points. I think if we sign him we sign him and if we don't we don't. Until that happens he should be open for discussion.

Sorry TSA but maybe you can point us in a new direction!

No problem, see my above response. ;)

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And how is Babchuk going to fill what most of us can agree are some holes on defense? Personally, I think we need a player who can bang bodies down low and control the front of the net and he's not that guy.

And I would never argue that is something we don't need. However, I would argue that being physical alone, or banging bodies down low as you put it, isn't necessarily a must for any defensemen. Good, but less physical defensemen know how to position themselves on the ice to take away the puck with their stick or their body by blocking shots rather than muscling a man off the puck. That's why you pair the physical stay at home guy with a puck mover.

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And I would never argue that is something we don't need. However, I would argue that being physical alone, or banging bodies down low as you put it, isn't necessarily a must for any defensemen. Good, but less physical defensemen know how to position themselves on the ice to take away the puck with their stick or their body by blocking shots rather than muscling a man off the puck. That's why you pair the physical stay at home guy with a puck mover.

So if we sign Babs who would you pair him with?

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