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Playing GM for the 2009-2010 Season

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And I would never argue that is something we don't need. However, I would argue that being physical alone, or banging bodies down low as you put it, isn't necessarily a must for any defensemen. Good, but less physical defensemen know how to position themselves on the ice to take away the puck with their stick or their body by blocking shots rather than muscling a man off the puck. That's why you pair the physical stay at home guy with a puck mover.

So if we sign Babs who would you pair him with?

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My thing with Babs basically boils down to this. If he was worth 1 mil to come back last season with all that we knew about him then, shouldn't he be worth a small amount more to come back this season? That's the hard part for me to figure out. I know he has his defensive liabilities (which is concerning for a defenseman) but as a young player, that is expected. I don't think he's the complete answer to our defensive concerns and I feel certain that he isn't a top 4 guy right now. I do feel that he has some value whether it's to our team or as a potential trade to another team.

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You put him on the top 4 and we are going to get killed. A coach will be salivating at the mouth knowing he can put Ovechkin, Crosby, Kessel, Gaborik, Parise, Zajac, etc out on the ice when #33 steps out. These guys will walk all over Babchuk, hence he is NOT a Top 4 defenseman. Can he be a Top 4 defenseman, sure he has the potential, but to say he is one now is crazy.

We had Babchuk in the Top 4 for the last 50 games of the regular season. It's not like putting him in the Top 4 is a brand new idea, he spent most of last season in the Top 4. He spent his time against the OVs, the Crosbys, etc, and it didn't do any noticeable harm. In fact, he and his partner benefited greatly from it, as brought up before.

How long does someone have to play in the Top 4 before they're considered a Top 4 defenseman, out of curiosity?

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So if we sign Babs who would you pair him with?

I'm sure most will say Pitkanen b/c that is where Babchuk potted his 16 goals. However, pairing him with Pitkanen, hurts Pitkanen. Pitkanen is by far a better player, 10 times better, offensively and defensively, yet we hamper Pitkanen offensively b/c he has to bail Babchuk out.

This is why I have a problem with the Pitkanen/Babchuk pairing. I REALLY want to pair him with Gleason.

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I'm sure most will say Pitkanen b/c that is where Babchuk potted his 16 goals. However, pairing him with Pitkanen, hurts Pitkanen. Pitkanen is by far a better player, 10 times better, offensively and defensively, yet we hamper Pitkanen offensively b/c he has to bail Babchuk out.

This is why I have a problem with the Pitkanen/Babchuk pairing. I REALLY want to pair him with Gleason.

Pitkanen actually played much better when paired with Babchuk than with his previous pairing. His offensive numbers dwindled, but his defensive play greatly improved. And to use a familiar phrase: He's paid to play defense. With Babchuk as his partner, he took less shots, instead choosing to pass to Babchuk who, during the time they were paired together, had a much better chance of getting the shot through. He also pinched less often, because of Babchuk's speed. This hampered his offense, but made sure he was there to play defense when needed.

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We had Babchuk in the Top 4 for the last 50 games of the regular season. It's not like putting him in the Top 4 is a brand new idea, he spent most of last season in the Top 4. He spent his time against the OVs, the Crosbys, etc, and it didn't do any noticeable harm. In fact, he and his partner benefited greatly from it, as brought up before.

How long does someone have to play in the Top 4 before they're considered a Top 4 defenseman, out of curiosity?

And what happened when coaches figured it out. He became invisible on the PP and became once again a defensive liability. We got away with it earlier because coaches weren't dialed in on him and there's a reason for that. However, once he started scoring the goals, coaches started paying attention to him and what happened. He became invisible on the PP and his lack of defense shined real bright.

IMO, Top 4 defenseman know how to play defense. They don't get all spazzy when being pressured. I get even Top 4 defensmen have their brain farts and make mistakes, but Babchuk is not there yet. Like I said he could be one day, but he has ALOT of work to do to get to that point. Potting 16 goals does not make one a Top 4 defensemen.

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He needs to improve, especially when pressured, I think we're in agreement with that. However, I just haven't seen it to the extent that you're describing it. If we're talking about someone who collapses under pressure, look no further than JR's other off-season signing, Melichar. That man couldn't keep the puck if his life depended on it. I just haven't seen Babchuk act anywhere close to that level.

His play with the puck I'd compare with Kaberle's. When both are bad, they have trouble under pressure, keeping the blueline, etc. When both are playing with confidence, they can handle the puck fine. The difference between the two, of course, is Babchuk's offensive talents compared to Kaberles. And yes, that is a factor in any defenseman's arsenal. It's why defensemen like Mike Green get Norris nominations, because it certainly isn't for their defensive play.

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I'm sure most will say Pitkanen b/c that is where Babchuk potted his 16 goals. However, pairing him with Pitkanen, hurts Pitkanen. Pitkanen is by far a better player, 10 times better, offensively and defensively, yet we hamper Pitkanen offensively b/c he has to bail Babchuk out.

This is why I have a problem with the Pitkanen/Babchuk pairing. I REALLY want to pair him with Gleason.

I agree Pitkanen is hurt when paired with Babchuk because it does limit Pitkanen offensively. But if you pair Babs with Gleason then Corvo will be paired with Pitkanen. Both Corvo and Pitkanen are good offensivley and paired together one would always be covering for the other who either pinched or joined the rush. Maybe not such a problem but I would rather have them on the ice at different times.

I would still offer Babs 1.2 mil because he gives us more options. I think D-berg may still come back

too. If so we would be in pretty good shape. If not we still need a shut down Dman.

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I'm sure most will say Pitkanen b/c that is where Babchuk potted his 16 goals. However, pairing him with Pitkanen, hurts Pitkanen. Pitkanen is by far a better player, 10 times better, offensively and defensively, yet we hamper Pitkanen offensively b/c he has to bail Babchuk out.

This is why I have a problem with the Pitkanen/Babchuk pairing. I REALLY want to pair him with Gleason.

I agree Pitkanen is hurt when paired with Babchuk because it does limit Pitkanen offensively. But if you pair Babs with Gleason then Corvo will be paired with Pitkanen. Both Corvo and Pitkanen are good offensivley and paired together one would always be covering for the other who either pinched or joined the rush. Maybe not such a problem but I would rather have them on the ice at different times.

I would still offer Babs 1.2 mil because he gives us more options. I think D-berg may still come back

too. If so we would be in pretty good shape. If not we still need a shut down Dman.

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How long does someone have to play in the Top 4 before they're considered a Top 4 defenseman, out of curiosity?

Until they get it right.

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How long does someone have to play in the Top 4 before they're considered a Top 4 defenseman, out of curiosity?

Until they get it right.

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I agree Pitkanen is hurt when paired with Babchuk because it does limit Pitkanen offensively. But if you pair Babs with Gleason then Corvo will be paired with Pitkanen. Both Corvo and Pitkanen are good offensivley and paired together one would always be covering for the other who either pinched or joined the rush. Maybe not such a problem but I would rather have them on the ice at different times.

I would still offer Babs 1.2 mil because he gives us more options. I think D-berg may still come back

too. If so we would be in pretty good shape. If not we still need a shut down Dman.

I wasn't talking about pairing Babs with Gleason. Gleason is the top pairing, no way do i want Babs with him. When Pitkanen was signed, it was talked that he and Gleason would make up our top pairing. They started out that way, but with injuries to Gleason's knee and Pitkanen they got broken up and since Corvo/Gleason did pretty well together, they didn't break them up.

The only problem with that is then that leaves Corvo/Babchuk (if he stays) and in NO WAY do I want that. Which is why I'm still hoping as well that Seidenberg lowers his price and re-signs here.

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So it seems like a lot are saying they're fine with letting go of Babchuk if it means D-berg or another FA Top 4 player signs here.

My question is: Assume JR pulls the cheap route (and there's no way that could happen <_< ) and doesn't go after another defenseman. He feels completely confident in our farm team and/or Wallin and Kaberle's abilities to perform in the Top 4.

Would you feel better with Babchuk playing in the Top 4 or one of the above?

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So if we sign Babs who would you pair him with?

If money suddenly becomes a non-issue because the two sides find an equitable middle ground (I like 2 years at 1.3 and 1.5 :blink:), and if Babchuk finds an antitode to the "attitude influenza", and if JR finds it in his heart to forgive and forget (again), then based upon the players now under contract, I would pair him with Pitkanen. This based largely on what was stated previously.

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So it seems like a lot are saying they're fine with letting go of Babchuk if it means D-berg or another FA Top 4 player signs here.

My question is: Assume JR pulls the cheap route (and there's no way that could happen <_< ) and doesn't go after another defenseman. He feels completely confident in our farm team and/or Wallin and Kaberle's abilities to perform in the Top 4.

Would you feel better with Babchuk playing in the Top 4 or one of the above?

Since we like to go off of past seasons on this board. I'd take Corvo/Kaberle. After Corvo was traded here, he was paired with Kaberle and as I recall they did extremely well together. I remember alot of people wondering how since both these guys have their "uh oh" moments, but for whatever reason they worked well together. And of course it goes to allowing me to see my pairing of Gleason and Pitkanen who I think can be an awesome top pairing for us.

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So then what's wrong with 16 goals, 19 assists and a +20?

Nothing. His offense is good. I also like his presence on the PP. I must admit I don't pay

much attention to the +/- because although an indicator it can be misleading. I think

his D is ok but not great IMO and he has trouble moving the puck and controlling the puck.

The dman paired with him is always covering for him. He also in my opinion doesn't

use his size to lay hits or clear the front of the net.

I still think we should sign him but don't think we should count on him as a consistent

top 4. He is young and will learn but can your effort be better placed with a player

who is more likely to stay with the team.

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So then what's wrong with 16 goals, 19 assists and a +20?

Nothing. His offense is good. I also like his presence on the PP. I must admit I don't pay

much attention to the +/- because although an indicator it can be misleading. I think

his D is ok but not great IMO and he has trouble moving the puck and controlling the puck.

The dman paired with him is always covering for him. He also in my opinion doesn't

use his size to lay hits or clear the front of the net.

I still think we should sign him but don't think we should count on him as a consistent

top 4. He is young and will learn but can your effort be better placed with a player

who is more likely to stay with the team.

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name='IceFrog999' date='Jul 9 2009, 05:55 PM' post='285609']

So it seems like a lot are saying they're fine with letting go of Babchuk if it means D-berg or another FA Top 4 player signs here.

If I had to pick Babs or D-berg (or another top 4) I would be alright letting Babchuk go.

My question is: Assume JR pulls the cheap route (and there's no way that could happen <_< ) and doesn't go after another defenseman. He feels completely confident in our farm team and/or Wallin and Kaberle's abilities to perform in the Top 4.

Would you feel better with Babchuk playing in the Top 4 or one of the above?

I don't think this will happen. I think we will shop for a top 4 but if it did I think Kabs. But I also think we would be in big trouble.

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name='IceFrog999' date='Jul 9 2009, 05:55 PM' post='285609']

So it seems like a lot are saying they're fine with letting go of Babchuk if it means D-berg or another FA Top 4 player signs here.

If I had to pick Babs or D-berg (or another top 4) I would be alright letting Babchuk go.

My question is: Assume JR pulls the cheap route (and there's no way that could happen <_< ) and doesn't go after another defenseman. He feels completely confident in our farm team and/or Wallin and Kaberle's abilities to perform in the Top 4.

Would you feel better with Babchuk playing in the Top 4 or one of the above?

I don't think this will happen. I think we will shop for a top 4 but if it did I think Kabs. But I also think we would be in big trouble.

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If money suddenly becomes a non-issue because the two sides find an equitable middle ground (I like 2 years at 1.3 and 1.5 :blink: ), and if Babchuk finds an antitode to the "attitude influenza", and if JR finds it in his heart to forgive and forget (again), then based upon the players now under contract, I would pair him with Pitkanen. This based largely on what was stated previously.

I can't believe it is just JR making Babs pay for going to Russia. Don't you think if JR thought

Babchuk could do the job of a top 4 he would have offered him more by now?

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If money suddenly becomes a non-issue because the two sides find an equitable middle ground (I like 2 years at 1.3 and 1.5 :blink: ), and if Babchuk finds an antitode to the "attitude influenza", and if JR finds it in his heart to forgive and forget (again), then based upon the players now under contract, I would pair him with Pitkanen. This based largely on what was stated previously.

I can't believe it is just JR making Babs pay for going to Russia. Don't you think if JR thought

Babchuk could do the job of a top 4 he would have offered him more by now?

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I can't believe it is just JR making Babs pay for going to Russia. Don't you think if JR thought

Babchuk could do the job of a top 4 he would have offered him more by now?

Well, Mo seemed to think he could handle top 4 duties, because he had him on the two top lines against the likes of Ovechkin and Crosby. So, are you suggesting the coach and GM suddenly don't agree on his potential?

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Well, Mo seemed to think he could handle top 4 duties, because he had him on the two top lines against the likes of Ovechkin and Crosby. So, are you suggesting the coach and GM suddenly don't agree on his potential?

Good Point. I think they agree on his potential but maybe not on the "right now". I think MO calls the shots on the ice but JR is calling the shots on resigning him. I think money talks and almost always wins.

Maybe it is as simple as making Babs pay for his year in the KHL.

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Well, Mo seemed to think he could handle top 4 duties, because he had him on the two top lines against the likes of Ovechkin and Crosby. So, are you suggesting the coach and GM suddenly don't agree on his potential?

Good Point. I think they agree on his potential but maybe not on the "right now". I think MO calls the shots on the ice but JR is calling the shots on resigning him. I think money talks and almost always wins.

Maybe it is as simple as making Babs pay for his year in the KHL.

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