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Playing GM for the 2009-2010 Season

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So, if another team made an offer sheet to RFA Babchuk of 1.5M average yearly salary. Remember he has turn down 1M from the Canes. What would you do?

A) Not match & take the 2nd round pick.

B) Match & sign Babchuk for 1.5M year for the length of the contract.

I would take the pick and run!!!

it doesn't work that way!! Babs has turned down our qualifying offer so for now he has no contract to play in the NHL. NO TEAM will put in an offer sheet for him at any price when JR will trade the rights for picks/pucks. Babs is in no man's land!! JR would most likely take the pick if someone was to put an offer sheet in.

Offer sheets are generally put in for marque RFA's, the type you don't mind giving up picks for if they will sign with you. Babs isn't in that category, that would be like someone putting in an offer sheet for Bayda when he was an RFA.

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I understand what you're saying, but my point is: why would we trade $1.4m in cap (Eaves) for someone who costs us $3m given that we're going to become salary-strapped ourselves? If we're going to assume a salary in the $3m range, we're going to need to move someone more expensive than Eaves.

we would do it if that person was someone we really wanted and needed which is part of the reason we have the cap buffer (so we don't end up like Chicago). Chicago needs to do a salary dump not a salary swap.

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My bad. Guess I was just wishing we could get something for him. Some one needs to tell him 1M is a lot of money, and while he might wish for more. He gave up his arbitration rights during his last hissy fit.

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My bad. Guess I was just wishing we could get something for him. Some one needs to tell him 1M is a lot of money, and while he might wish for more. He gave up his arbitration rights during his last hissy fit.

yep, but with the signing of alberts my thoughts are that JR will package babs rights with someone and make that big trade we want.

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yep, but with the signing of alberts my thoughts are that JR will package babs rights with someone and make that big trade we want.

Maybe Eaves? Looks to me like Kostopoulos does what Eaves does. What does Babchuk + Eaves buy us in terms of a "big trade"?

Who else likely goes into the package with Babchuk if not Eaves?

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Maybe Eaves? Looks to me like Kostopoulos does what Eaves does. What does Babchuk + Eaves buy us in terms of a "big trade"?

Who else likely goes into the package with Babchuk if not Eaves?

djharley's buddy Kaberle and Brindy?? the Canes megatrade?

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I hope the Canes arent giving up on Babs, if you look at what some d-men are making in the NHL and the total points they have AND AGE........Babs is still learning and understanding the game as a d-man. He is still very young. His playoff performance may have been a little rough. But experience gets you that. He deserves more money and I hope Jim doesnt hold back on him. What do you guys think?

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I hope the Canes arent giving up on Babs, if you look at what some d-men are making in the NHL and the total points they have AND AGE........Babs is still learning and understanding the game as a d-man. He is still very young. His playoff performance may have been a little rough. But experience gets you that. He deserves more money and I hope Jim doesnt hold back on him. What do you guys think?

Based on all thats been put out in the media for all to read and hear, I think that there's a whole lot more to this story going on behind closed doors and its unlikely we'll ever know what really has transpired. The only thing that does seem to be clear is that JR is indifferent to Babchuk returning as long as its only for his QO and not a penny more. His play last season did warrant some sort of raise, even a modest one, but obviously much more than just performance played into JR's decision on how to handle his contact dealings. Its all very unfortunate since he did show great strides in his development, and this team needs a young upcoming NHL ready dman who shows good promise but....something must have gone terribly wrong for things to have deteriorated to the point they appear to be at.

-just my take

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No way they give up Versteeg. A rookie who had 53 points in 78 games has a little bit of value.

Yeah, he's a dream pick up... but they gotta drop someone.. Like Caniac97 has said, they are in dire salary trouble and trading 3.0 mil (Barker, Versteeg, Byfuglin) for 3.0 mil (Sammy, Ruutu, Cole) won't work for them.

I picked the two guys I did to show that they could drop 4 mil in salary by trading 6 million in salary for 2 million. Other things like draft picks and minor leaguers can be added that dont affect the cap but sweeten the deal for Chicago so they arent just getting robbed blind.

My original thought was a 2 for one trade, such as Eaves + Babs for Barker, but thats a 2 million for 3 million swap... it helps, but they are still over the cap. They will have to move multiple players.

Sharp is a guy who would take 4.2 off the books for them, but it seems unlikely they would drop him after the season he's had with Toews and Kane. But at the same time, do you now have 4 first liners in Sharp, Toews, Kane and Hossa? Granted any of those guys would probably see just as much ice time on the second line.

Unfortunately for Chicago, they can't target one of our better (higher paid) players like Ruutu, Samsonov, Cole, Brind'amour since that doesnt solve their cap issues. They are paying nearly 8 million a year for Marian Hossa.. one of their star players will have to leave to pay his salary.

Keith will be a RFA next year, currently making 1.9.. Sharp + Keith would be 5.1 million, If they took the 2.1 mil for Eaves and Babs, they would still be right at the cap or over by 1 million or so... something has to give.

It will be interesting to see who they trade with.. it may not be us, but it will be someone.. and knowing we are in the market makes it an exciting wait.

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Yeah, he's a dream pick up... but they gotta drop someone.. Like Caniac97 has said, they are in dire salary trouble and trading 3.0 mil (Barker, Versteeg, Byfuglin) for 3.0 mil (Sammy, Ruutu, Cole) won't work for them.

I picked the two guys I did to show that they could drop 4 mil in salary by trading 6 million in salary for 2 million. Other things like draft picks and minor leaguers can be added that dont affect the cap but sweeten the deal for Chicago so they arent just getting robbed blind.

My original thought was a 2 for one trade, such as Eaves + Babs for Barker, but thats a 2 million for 3 million swap... it helps, but they are still over the cap. They will have to move multiple players.

Sharp is a guy who would take 4.2 off the books for them, but it seems unlikely they would drop him after the season he's had with Toews and Kane. But at the same time, do you now have 4 first liners in Sharp, Toews, Kane and Hossa? Granted any of those guys would probably see just as much ice time on the second line.

Unfortunately for Chicago, they can't target one of our better (higher paid) players like Ruutu, Samsonov, Cole, Brind'amour since that doesnt solve their cap issues. They are paying nearly 8 million a year for Marian Hossa.. one of their star players will have to leave to pay his salary.

Keith will be a RFA next year, currently making 1.9.. Sharp + Keith would be 5.1 million, If they took the 2.1 mil for Eaves and Babs, they would still be right at the cap or over by 1 million or so... something has to give.

It will be interesting to see who they trade with.. it may not be us, but it will be someone.. and knowing we are in the market makes it an exciting wait.

They wouldn't give up Keith. They'd deal Campbell, Barker, or Seabrook before him. Sharp + Staal + Ruutu would be a great line though, I'd be very surprised if we picked him up but it is certain something big is going down in the next few days, ask anyone in the Canes organization.

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They wouldn't give up Keith. They'd deal Campbell, Barker, or Seabrook before him. Sharp + Staal + Ruutu would be a great line though, I'd be very surprised if we picked him up but it is certain something big is going down in the next few days, ask anyone in the Canes organization.

That's why I like our chances... they need to move someone to lower their salarys, we have salary room and are obviously looking for several pieces, at the minimum a top 4 Dman, if we get lucky a top 6 forward as well.

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Yeah, he's a dream pick up... but they gotta drop someone.. Like Caniac97 has said, they are in dire salary trouble and trading 3.0 mil (Barker, Versteeg, Byfuglin) for 3.0 mil (Sammy, Ruutu, Cole) won't work for them.

I picked the two guys I did to show that they could drop 4 mil in salary by trading 6 million in salary for 2 million. Other things like draft picks and minor leaguers can be added that dont affect the cap but sweeten the deal for Chicago so they arent just getting robbed blind.

My original thought was a 2 for one trade, such as Eaves + Babs for Barker, but thats a 2 million for 3 million swap... it helps, but they are still over the cap. They will have to move multiple players.

Sharp is a guy who would take 4.2 off the books for them, but it seems unlikely they would drop him after the season he's had with Toews and Kane. But at the same time, do you now have 4 first liners in Sharp, Toews, Kane and Hossa? Granted any of those guys would probably see just as much ice time on the second line.

Unfortunately for Chicago, they can't target one of our better (higher paid) players like Ruutu, Samsonov, Cole, Brind'amour since that doesnt solve their cap issues. They are paying nearly 8 million a year for Marian Hossa.. one of their star players will have to leave to pay his salary.

Keith will be a RFA next year, currently making 1.9.. Sharp + Keith would be 5.1 million, If they took the 2.1 mil for Eaves and Babs, they would still be right at the cap or over by 1 million or so... something has to give.

It will be interesting to see who they trade with.. it may not be us, but it will be someone.. and knowing we are in the market makes it an exciting wait.

So this feels like a situation where we overvalue our picks/prospects because of past mistakes trading picks/prospects....no doubt I have a bit of a man crush on Chris Versteeg; he's a sniper of underrated proportions....and he's not afraid to bang....but even with that knowledge a deal that makes sense for both the Canes and Chicago could look something like:

rights to Babchuk + prospect (Dalpe or Terry) + 2010 or 2011 2nd rd. pick

for

Versteeg and Barker or Keith

You could substitute Samsonov for Babchuk (yet Babs has more upside), but I don't think Eaves gets it done (face it you're gonna see Patty on the 3rd/4th line for the Canes this year)....what makes this type of trade w/Chicago a bit suspect is the fact that Chicago has already had a session w/Babs and Sammy....but, both of those players have found a bit of themselves that didn't exist during their previous stints....not to mention that there's a different coach/system in Chicago now.

What makes it work is that Chicago is giving up good young talent to get under the cap and the Canes are getting guys in their early 20s and seem to be on their way to good solid NHL careers (1st/2nd line forward and 2nd pairing D-man). The Hawks get a rising talent in Babs, very solid 2nd/3rd line potential w/the prospect and a very high pick - so they get youth, get the option to have a good young player come into the bigs in 2010/11 and get a high pick to replenish their system. The Canes get 2 young guys who could realistically be Hurricanes for the next decade.

This deal takes about $4.5 million off of Chicago's payroll (assuming they sign Babs for $1.5 million). But it does, however add about $6.0 million to our payroll....which means that Sammy and/or Whitney are gone (along w/Kabs buyout)...yes Ray has a no trade clause, but I'm sure there are a select few teams he would consider...it might not be necessary if Sammy gets traded - by my calculations w/that trade and Kabs' buyout we would end up w/about a $53 million payroll (w/Versteeg and Barker added) and while we might not get revenue sharing we would field a pretty damn competitive team that might drive attendance higher and therefore more revenue....

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So this feels like a situation where we overvalue our picks/prospects because of past mistakes trading picks/prospects....no doubt I have a bit of a man crush on Chris Versteeg; he's a sniper of underrated proportions....and he's not afraid to bang....but even with that knowledge a deal that makes sense for both the Canes and Chicago could look something like:

rights to Babchuk + prospect (Dalpe or Terry) + 2010 or 2011 2nd rd. pick

for

Versteeg and Barker or Keith

You could substitute Samsonov for Babchuk (yet Babs has more upside), but I don't think Eaves gets it done (face it you're gonna see Patty on the 3rd/4th line for the Canes this year)....what makes this type of trade w/Chicago a bit suspect is the fact that Chicago has already had a session w/Babs and Sammy....but, both of those players have found a bit of themselves that didn't exist during their previous stints....not to mention that there's a different coach/system in Chicago now.

What makes it work is that Chicago is giving up good young talent to get under the cap and the Canes are getting guys in their early 20s and seem to be on their way to good solid NHL careers (1st/2nd line forward and 2nd pairing D-man). The Hawks get a rising talent in Babs, very solid 2nd/3rd line potential w/the prospect and a very high pick - so they get youth, get the option to have a good young player come into the bigs in 2010/11 and get a high pick to replenish their system. The Canes get 2 young guys who could realistically be Hurricanes for the next decade.

This deal takes about $4.5 million off of Chicago's payroll (assuming they sign Babs for $1.5 million). But it does, however add about $6.0 million to our payroll....which means that Sammy and/or Whitney are gone (along w/Kabs buyout)...yes Ray has a no trade clause, but I'm sure there are a select few teams he would consider...it might not be necessary if Sammy gets traded - by my calculations w/that trade and Kabs' buyout we would end up w/about a $53 million payroll (w/Versteeg and Barker added) and while we might not get revenue sharing we would field a pretty damn competitive team that might drive attendance higher and therefore more revenue....

I think it would be more like Boychuk + Bab's Rights + A First and a Second round draft pick for Versteeg+Barker. Although I don't know why they would sign Versteeg and Barker just to trade them. Probably more like Sharp+Barker in return. That sounds a bit fairer

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I highly doubt that Chicago would take Babs or Samsonov back, as both were not liked by management. If we were to get Sharp and Barker, it would cost us probably Boychuk, Eaves, and a high draft pick Sharp is a threat for 30+ goals and Barker is a 23 year old D-man. 23 year old Defensemen who have NHL experience don't come cheap. I could see Chicago trading Seabrook before Barker. The only way Babs goes in a trade with Chicago is if there is a 3rd team involved. I do still think that Babchuk will end up in New York aside his friend Zherdev.

Sharp - 3,900,000

Barker - 3,083,000

Cap w/o Sharp/Barker - 56,236,626

Total - 6,983,000

Boychuk - 1,225,000

Eaves - 1,400,000

Total - 2,625,000

56,236,626

+2,625,000

CHICAGO's CAP AFTER TRADE = 58,861,626

Even if a deal like this went down, Chicago would still have to make another one to get under the cap.

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I think it would be more like Boychuk + Bab's Rights + A First and a Second round draft pick for Versteeg+Barker. Although I don't know why they would sign Versteeg and Barker just to trade them. Probably more like Sharp+Barker in return. That sounds a bit fairer

While I don't disagree that Sharp would fit as well, the million extra in salary won't work for JR...plus your scenario is a little lopsided in favor of Chicago (3 1st rounders and a 2nd for a 1st and a 5th rounder???). Remember the team with the salary issues usually gets a bit of the old hose in these types of deals....not the complete ream job, but they have to trade salary for something in return....all those 1st rounders just don't add up (remember that Babs is a one time 1st round pick)...yes, I do know that Versteeg and Barker are both rising young stars, but your scenario is a fairly significant overpayment. I could see Boychuk or Bowman as the prospect, however, instead of Dalpe or Terry and I'd probably be okay with that....but I don't think that's gonna happen as I truly believe we're going to see one or both of them on the Canes this year - either out of camp or by mid season....just a hunch....

Still a pretty interesting line up that could look like this:

Versteeg/Staal/Cole

Whitney/Cullen/Ruutu

Eaves/Jokinen/LaRose

Walker/Brindy/Kostopoulos

Extras: Conboy/Ryan

Pitkanen/Gleason

Corvo/Barker

Alberts/Wallin

Extra: Carson

Ward

Leighton

That's a team I could really enjoy watching...speed and grit....three true puck movers and 3 defensive D-men....but alas...it won't happen...but a guy can dream...

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I highly doubt that Chicago would take Babs or Samsonov back, as both were not liked by management. If we were to get Sharp and Barker, it would cost us probably Boychuk, Eaves, and a high draft pick Sharp is a threat for 30+ goals and Barker is a 23 year old D-man. 23 year old Defensemen who have NHL experience don't come cheap. I could see Chicago trading Seabrook before Barker.

Sharp - 3,900,000

Barker - 3,083,000

Cap w/o Sharp/Barker - 56,236,626

Total - 6,983,000

Boychuk - 1,225,000

Eaves - 1,400,000

Total - 2,625,000

56,236,626

+2,625,000

CHICAGO's CAP AFTER TRADE = 58,861,626

Even if a deal like this went down, Chicago would still have to make another one to get under the cap.

Yup, Sammy and Babs have been w/Chicago before...different coach and now a different GM; so I'm not sure what part of the exisiting managment team would have bad feelings for these guys. And while 23 year old NHL experienced defensemen don't come cheap, 25 year old NHL defensemen who score 16 goals in 72 games don't come cheap either...playoffs be damned, Babchuk was one of our best D-men for the last 30 games or so. And he can probably be had in the $1.5 to $2.0 million range....Eaves is a non-starter as he doesn't really add much for Chicago. If a deal like this goes down (all supposition by me, mind you) - whether its Sharp or Versteeg or Barker or Keith or Seabrook, etc.....it only works for Chicago if only 1 true roster player goes back - hence my player + prospect + pick theory in the first place....I thought I saw that they had something like 21 guys signed but still need a back up goalie and a 7th D-man....figure something like $1.5 to $1.7 million total for those two players. So the end result of either of these trades is that Chicago is going to bring $3.0 to $3.5 million off of their number (which currently sits at $58.147 million). That get's them below next year's cap w/a million to spare...

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The more I look at the roster as it currently sits, the less I see the need to include a forward in any potential trade.

Right now, the roster looks like this:

Whitney / Staal / Cole

Samsonov / Cullen / Ruutu

LaRose / Jokinen / Walker

Eaves / Brind'Amour / Kostopoulos

-Conboy

Gleason / Corvo

Pitkanen / Kaberle

Wallin / Alberts

-Harrison

Ward

Leighton

'09-'10 Salary - $47,325,000

If Kaberle is bought out, you can take $1.5 million away from that '09-'10 salary and the team is well below Karmanos' self-imposed budget. A potential trade that would fit Rutherford's style would be Babchuk to Columbus, straight up, for Marc Methot. Methot is a solid, all-around defenseman in the mold of Gleason and his best hockey is still years ahead of him. Methot could slot in beside either Corvo or Pitkanen on the second-pair.

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The more I look at the roster as it currently sits, the less I see the need to include a forward in any potential trade.

Right now, the roster looks like this:

Whitney / Staal / Cole

Samsonov / Cullen / Ruutu

LaRose / Jokinen / Walker

Eaves / Brind'Amour / Kostopoulos

-Conboy

Gleason / Corvo

Pitkanen / Kaberle

Wallin / Alberts

-Harrison

Ward

Leighton

'09-'10 Salary - $47,325,000

If Kaberle is bought out, you can take $1.5 million away from that '09-'10 salary and the team is well below Karmanos' self-imposed budget. A potential trade that would fit Rutherford's style would be Babchuk to Columbus, straight up, for Marc Methot. Methot is a solid, all-around defenseman in the mold of Gleason and his best hockey is still years ahead of him. Methot could slot in beside either Corvo or Pitkanen on the second-pair.

I really like Methot too, he would be a great pickup for us. I think you're forgetting we still need to sign Ruutu, and that could be up to 3.5 million when you look at other players his age putting up the same numbers.

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I really like Methot too, he would be a great pickup for us. I think you're forgetting we still need to sign Ruutu, and that could be up to 3.5 million when you look at other players his age putting up the same numbers.

Yeah, forgot about re-signing Ruutu. If Kaberle is bought out and Ruutu is re-signed at $3.5 million a year, that puts the team's salary at $49,325,000. There should still be enough room there to acquire and sign Methot to an extended contract. He could likely be signed at $1 to $1.5 million.

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I really like Methot too, he would be a great pickup for us. I think you're forgetting we still need to sign Ruutu, and that could be up to 3.5 million when you look at other players his age putting up the same numbers.

Everyone says $3.5 because of Clowe getting that but if Versteeg only got $3 million a year for 3 years I think that should be the new set-point.

Ruutu < Versteeg

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I think it would be more like Boychuk + Bab's Rights + A First and a Second round draft pick for Versteeg+Barker. Although I don't know why they would sign Versteeg and Barker just to trade them. Probably more like Sharp+Barker in return. That sounds a bit fairer

I thought the whole Snafu with giving RFAs qualifying offers too late forced Chicago's hand in signing these guys and part of what lead to them having a cap issue. I could be wrong, but they had to sign some guys in a hurry or risk losing them. Earlier in this thread we talked about maybe snagging one of these guys as a RFA or if the mistake of no QO turned them into UFAs (i'm not sure how that stuff works, but they had to sign these guys or risk losing some of them).

Versteeg had 53 points in 78 games and makes 3.1 million. Sharp had 44 points in 61 games and makes 4.2 million.

It looks like they are losing less production and shedding more salary, but Sharp's points per game is higher, and he played first line minutes with Toews and Kane in the playoffs. Even with a higher salary to dump would cutting Sharp be "fairer"? Other than a note about two games missed for illness I can't find why he missed 20 games.

Where did Boychuk come from in this equation? He only makes .8 million, and even though we have more room, we still need to dump some salary to make this work. Eaves at 1.4 mil (and supposedly replaced by Kostopoulos at .8 million) has seemed to be expendable.

Chicago would have to pick up the million for Babchuk (i suppose) but that doesn't count for us, so we only drop 1.4 million or so and pick up 4+ but we have a little more wiggle room.

We'll see how it plays out, if anyone on our side pulls the trigger, we seem to avoid moves like this.

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I thought the whole Snafu with giving RFAs qualifying offers too late forced Chicago's hand in signing these guys and part of what lead to them having a cap issue. I could be wrong, but they had to sign some guys in a hurry or risk losing them. Earlier in this thread we talked about maybe snagging one of these guys as a RFA or if the mistake of no QO turned them into UFAs (i'm not sure how that stuff works, but they had to sign these guys or risk losing some of them).

Versteeg had 53 points in 78 games and makes 3.1 million. Sharp had 44 points in 61 games and makes 4.2 million.

It looks like they are losing less production and shedding more salary, but Sharp's points per game is higher, and he played first line minutes with Toews and Kane in the playoffs. Even with a higher salary to dump would cutting Sharp be "fairer"? Other than a note about two games missed for illness I can't find why he missed 20 games.

Where did Boychuk come from in this equation? He only makes .8 million, and even though we have more room, we still need to dump some salary to make this work. Eaves at 1.4 mil (and supposedly replaced by Kostopoulos at .8 million) has seemed to be expendable.

Chicago would have to pick up the million for Babchuk (i suppose) but that doesn't count for us, so we only drop 1.4 million or so and pick up 4+ but we have a little more wiggle room.

We'll see how it plays out, if anyone on our side pulls the trigger, we seem to avoid moves like this.

This trade wouldn't be about us shedding salary, we would only get a deal like this solely because Chicago wanted to shed salary. As in they have no need for Eaves and probably wouldn't be willing to take on his salary. They would want a good prospect (aka Boychuk), draft picks, and perhaps Babchuk's rights (All assuming they would even want him back).

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This trade wouldn't be about us shedding salary, we would only get a deal like this solely because Chicago wanted to shed salary. As in they have no need for Eaves and probably wouldn't be willing to take on his salary. They would want a good prospect (aka Boychuk), draft picks, and perhaps Babchuk's rights (All assuming they would even want him back).

I just meant we can't take on too much or we put ourselves above the Cap, or above the team budget or above the Revenue Sharing limit all of which we know are important numbers for JR and Co. We can't drop 1.5 million and pick up 7... that's too much, so I think we'd have to drop multiple players, even if its lower paid guys.

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The only way I see any potential trade with Chicago working is if there's another team or two involved.

Let's be honest. As some have stated, we just can't take on that much salary. That means Chicago will have to look at trading to multiple teams to drop back under the cap. I'm not really an expert on our roster or any other team's roster, so I can't lay out a possible trade that would be reasonable. But I do see the possibility of packaging Babchuk's rights along with something for maybe one or two "high salary" guys from Chicago. Then we may ship another player/prospect or two to another team involved, allowing us to open us some space for prospects to move up or let us sign somebody. Then the rest between other teams and Chicago would have to be worked out where Chicago could dump a little more salary.

So while we may not get the top 4 Dman AND a legit winger from Chicago, we may be able to work something out to get at least one of the two from them. I know adding more teams to trade talks just makes things more complicated, but it could work. There's still plenty of time for moves to be figured out.

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One potential glitch in some of the above ideas, I doubt Chicago is interested in getting Babchuk back since they gave up on him originally.

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