caniac-97 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 Karmonos has the money...give the guy what he wants to stay...as he not proven he's a player to keep? I hate to say it, but I agree with SD....already have a black Rutuu jersey though....oh well....he still represents what I want to see on the Canes team. it isn't about money but contract length!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dangermouse-ch1 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 You can mark it down that you heard it here first (I have said it before). If Ruutu only ends up on a one year deal, J.R. will quickly start shopping him and he will be part of the trade that gets us the winger or defenseman that we all agree that we need. I don't think J.R. is going to want to be in a bidding war for Ruutu's services next summer. Don't buy that Ruutu jersey as soon as he signs a 1 year deal. If this turns out to be true I think this would be the most likely scenario in which we obtain a first line winger. I think we can get the defenseman we need (Skoula, MA Bergeron, ect) off FA for much less than Ruutu is worth. Ruutu is such a hard working smash-mouth top-6 winger he holds a ton of value, I think we could get any number of first-line skilled playmakers/snipers for him. There are just way too many to speculate (players like Frolov, Zherdev, St. Louis (If Tampa was desperate enough), Hemsky (worse option because injury risk) come to mind), I think Ruutu would draw a ton of interest... He is just the type of player some a ton of teams need. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
super_dave_1 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 Karmonos has the money...give the guy what he wants to stay...as he not proven he's a player to keep? I hate to say it, but I agree with SD....already have a black Rutuu jersey though....oh well....he still represents what I want to see on the Canes team. I love what he brings to the team too (he's my favorite player) but giving him what he wants isn't how business works. The only reason for Ruutu to want a one year deal is to squeeze a little more out of somebody next year this time. That isn't the way J.R. rolls. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cc Report post Posted July 21, 2009 If this turns out to be true I think this would be the most likely scenario in which we obtain a first line winger. I think we can get the defenseman we need (Skoula, MA Bergeron, ect) off FA for much less than Ruutu is worth. Ruutu is such a hard working smash-mouth top-6 winger he holds a ton of value, I think we could get any number of first-line skilled playmakers/snipers for him. There are just way too many to speculate (players like Frolov, Zherdev, St. Louis (If Tampa was desperate enough), Hemsky (worse option because injury risk) come to mind), I think Ruutu would draw a ton of interest... He is just the type of player some a ton of teams need. There is some serious "smokin" goin on here. Ruutu's value is not at the level you have indicated just because he had one above average year. You ain't gonna get a St.Louis for him. i.e first line player. I would say he has more like a 1/2 ton of value and if he pushes Rutherford too far he is GONE. Even with arbitration he should not top 3 mil. I like the guy and what he brings. But this is a Bizness decision. Exactly how much do you think he is worth anyway? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
super_dave_1 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 There is some serious "smokin" goin on here. Ruutu's value is not at the level you have indicated just because he had one above average year. You ain't gonna get a St.Louis for him. i.e first line player. I would say he has more like a 1/2 ton of value and if he pushes Rutherford too far he is GONE. Even with arbitration he should not top 3 mil. I like the guy and what he brings. But this is a Bizness decision. Exactly how much do you think he is worth anyway? Which is pretty much why I think he'll be traded if he pushes his way to a one year deal (arbitration included). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dangermouse-ch1 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 There is some serious "smokin" goin on here. Ruutu's value is not at the level you have indicated just because he had one above average year. You ain't gonna get a St.Louis for him. i.e first line player. I would say he has more like a 1/2 ton of value and if he pushes Rutherford too far he is GONE. Even with arbitration he should not top 3 mil. I like the guy and what he brings. But this is a Bizness decision. Exactly how much do you think he is worth anyway? I said that TB would have to be desperate... I think Ruutu is worth $3-3.5 million, or at least that's what the arbitrator will give him, because that's the same salary which players with similar stats of similar age (Versteeg, Clowe) got as RFAs this season. And Frolov makes $2.9, I think Zherdev made $3.5 last season, and Hemsky makes $4 million. And there are plenty of players that make $2.5-4 million that fall into the first-liner category. Ruutu has so much added value because of how physical he is. The only two players that point up similar or more points than him that are also close to him in hits are Ovechkin and Dustin Brown. I think currently Ruutu is the second best forward (behind Staal) we have as far as completeness and overall benefit to the team goes, I would hope we would get a great player for him... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caniac-97 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 I said that TB would have to be desperate... I think Ruutu is worth $3-3.5 million, or at least that's what the arbitrator will give him, because that's the same salary which players with similar stats of similar age (Versteeg, Clowe) got as RFAs this season. And Frolov makes $2.9, I think Zherdev made $3.5 last season, and Hemsky makes $4 million. And there are plenty of players that make $2.5-4 million that fall into the first-liner category. Ruutu has so much added value because of how physical he is. The only two players that point up similar or more points than him that are also close to him in hits are Ovechkin and Dustin Brown. I think currently Ruutu is the second best forward (behind Staal) we have as far as completeness and overall benefit to the team goes, I would hope we would get a great player for him... here we go again!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sutter16 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 On the main website, there's an update interview with Rutherford. A couple things on the defense: -He says Seidenberg will most likely not come back, he's talked with his agent again and the asking price is still too high. -The plan is to trade Babchuk and a forward for a veteran defenseman who is physical and can play a lot of minutes with Pitkanen. -Harrison and Fitzgerald both have a good shot at making the team, more than someone like Rodney. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cc Report post Posted July 21, 2009 The only two players that point up similar or more points than him that are also close to him in hits are Ovechkin You aren't really making this comparison are you? (110 points for Ovie and 54 for Ruutu). Here we go again? Not sure what that means, but it must be a "Magic Carpet Ride". If so I am up for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dangermouse-ch1 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 You aren't really making this comparison are you? (110 points for Ovie and 54 for Ruutu). Here we go again? Not sure what that means, but it must be a "Magic Carpet Ride". If so I am up for that. It's a simple comparison... I also mentioned Dustin Brown and he had 53 points. My point was not to compare Ruutu, Brown, and Ovechkin in that they have the same scoring/playmaking ability. It was to say that Ovechkin (243 hits, 8th among forwards), Brown (285 hits, 2nd among forwards), and Ruutu (228 hits, 9th among forwards) are 3 players that can score goals as well has dish out a lot of hits and play a physical game and this aspect makes them more valuable. That was all that I was comparing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caniac-97 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 You aren't really making this comparison are you? (110 points for Ovie and 54 for Ruutu). Here we go again? Not sure what that means, but it must be a "Magic Carpet Ride". If so I am up for that. it is, same drill just a different "player flavor of the day". Next up "We need to trade Cam Ward because he doesn't score goals, Ovie has scored hundreds and Cam not even the first one". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caniac-97 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 well i just had a let down, went over to Eklund's site and saw "Eaves to Nash" but it was a different Eaves!! Just our luck. they should have called us, at least our Eaves has NHL experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
super_dave_1 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 If this turns out to be true I think this would be the most likely scenario in which we obtain a first line winger. I think we can get the defenseman we need (Skoula, MA Bergeron, ect) off FA for much less than Ruutu is worth. Ruutu is such a hard working smash-mouth top-6 winger he holds a ton of value, I think we could get any number of first-line skilled playmakers/snipers for him. There are just way too many to speculate (players like Frolov, Zherdev, St. Louis (If Tampa was desperate enough), Hemsky (worse option because injury risk) come to mind), I think Ruutu would draw a ton of interest... He is just the type of player some a ton of teams need. By himself, Ruutu isn't close to bringing us a top line winger in a trade. He'd have to be packaged with one or two more guys and we'd need that too to make the dollars work. You would see something like Ruutu, Eaves, and Babs rights to team X for their winger they can't afford anymore because they are broke or over the cap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caniacal_Avaholic Report post Posted July 21, 2009 By himself, Ruutu isn't close to bringing us a top line winger in a trade. He'd have to be packaged with one or two more guys and we'd need that too to make the dollars work. You would see something like Ruutu, Eaves, and Babs rights to team X for their winger they can't afford anymore because they are broke or over the cap. It makes total sense. Patrick Sharp, here we come! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dangermouse-ch1 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 By himself, Ruutu isn't close to bringing us a top line winger in a trade. He'd have to be packaged with one or two more guys and we'd need that too to make the dollars work. You would see something like Ruutu, Eaves, and Babs rights to team X for their winger they can't afford anymore because they are broke or over the cap. Ruutu and Babs contracts together is a lot to take on if your trying to dip under cap or save money. Although Babs is basically just a free asset we have lying around for a deal like this anyway so why not throw him in if needed and getting rid of Eaves would probably be more beneficial to us than damaging so he can go too. I didn't mean a superstar... I think Frolov has a decent chance at being traded with the bringing in of Ryan Smyth who is a first line LW himself. Plus I know the Canes have looked at Frolov before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ericncsu Report post Posted July 21, 2009 On the main website, there's an update interview with Rutherford. A couple things on the defense: -He says Seidenberg will most likely not come back, he's talked with his agent again and the asking price is still too high. -The plan is to trade Babchuk and a forward for a veteran defenseman who is physical and can play a lot of minutes with Pitkanen. -Harrison and Fitzgerald both have a good shot at making the team, more than someone like Rodney. I just watched this, and I'm really surprised since at first it seemed like Denis was leaving, then it seemed sure he was coming back.. I guess he will be gone, but if he hasnt signed with us, and he hasnt signed with another team yet, he will have to accept a lower salary before anyone will take him. Why won't he lower his asking price to stay with us? he must not want to play here for some reason. That said, the trade for the top-4 defensemen is now a reality with the exit of Siedenberg... A lot of forward for D trade talks have already happened in this thread, I'm sure some of the ideas we've come up with could be possibilities. Interesting what he said about Babchuk, he said IF they get the D they need, then they would try to move him to a different team for prospects. That made it sound like a separate deal, rather then a multiplayer deal like we have all been assuming. Eaves alone won't get us a top 4 D.. Rutherford also said it would depend on what forward they have to give up to get the D.. so it sounds like nearly any player (outside of recently long termed Staal) could be on the trading block. If we were to trade someone like Cole or Whitney we could probably get a high dollar, top pair D man.. but at what cost? I wouldn't want to lose any of our top 6 (Ruutu, Staal, Cole, Whitney, Jokinen).. Cullen might could go, but it would mean putting Rod on second line Center, although Jokinen can play Center, and is pretty good in faceoffs. A big move is on the horizon.... I wonder who it will be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dangermouse-ch1 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 I just watched this, and I'm really surprised since at first it seemed like Denis was leaving, then it seemed sure he was coming back.. I guess he will be gone, but if he hasnt signed with us, and he hasnt signed with another team yet, he will have to accept a lower salary before anyone will take him. Why won't he lower his asking price to stay with us? he must not want to play here for some reason. That said, the trade for the top-4 defensemen is now a reality with the exit of Siedenberg... A lot of forward for D trade talks have already happened in this thread, I'm sure some of the ideas we've come up with could be possibilities. Interesting what he said about Babchuk, he said IF they get the D they need, then they would try to move him to a different team for prospects. That made it sound like a separate deal, rather then a multiplayer deal like we have all been assuming. Eaves alone won't get us a top 4 D.. Rutherford also said it would depend on what forward they have to give up to get the D.. so it sounds like nearly any player (outside of recently long termed Staal) could be on the trading block. If we were to trade someone like Cole or Whitney we could probably get a high dollar, top pair D man.. but at what cost? I wouldn't want to lose any of our top 6 (Ruutu, Staal, Cole, Whitney, Jokinen).. Cullen might could go, but it would mean putting Rod on second line Center, although Jokinen can play Center, and is pretty good in faceoffs. A big move is on the horizon.... I wonder who it will be. I also got the impression that he was talking about 2 different deals. Which I think is probably an indication that one of these trades is already heavily in the works don't you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeromeo87 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 it is, same drill just a different "player flavor of the day". Next up "We need to trade Cam Ward because he doesn't score goals, Ovie has scored hundreds and Cam not even the first one". omg, dude.. Please, for the love of God, stop! It's always something like "Here we go again!!" "Or "Its not about the money!!" You act like you know EVERYTHING!! People can't give a comment without you saying something like "do you even know how it works?" Or "I know about economics.." Blah blah blah.. Just let people talk! go canes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ericncsu Report post Posted July 21, 2009 I also got the impression that he was talking about 2 different deals. Which I think is probably an indication that one of these trades is already heavily in the works don't you think? Yeah.. I think this press conference giving grades and impressions about certain players is a prequel to something to be announced in the next couple of days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dangermouse-ch1 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 Yeah.. I think this press conference giving grades and impressions about certain players is a prequel to something to be announced in the next couple of days. Yeah it's good news for people looking to hear something big Canes related. I think what also might be driving it, correct me if I'm wrong: the 2nd player buyout period, which only occurs if one of your players files for arbitration (As Ruutu did), opens 3 days after the arbitration date (Ruutu's is July 30th) and lasts 48 hours. So if they wanted to buyout Kaberle they have to make the deal in the next 2 weeks or else we get stuck with Kaberle for next season. If anything at least he is probably on the phones talking to other GMs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IceFrog999 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 Well, if we are moving Ruutu, there's something that can be done. I think a deal with the Rangers might work out. They've got the 1st line winger we need (Zherdev) They're trying to move one of their overpaid defensemen (Redden or Rozival) They've expressed interest in Babchuk If we could work a combination of Eaves, Babchuk, Ruutu, or Kaberle for Zherdev and Redden/Rozival so that the salary's work out for both teams, I'd be ok with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eggy21 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 So we are looking for a defenseman to pair with Pitkanen..I think these may be the guys we are looking at Marc Methot Rotislav Klesla Mike Van Ryn Ian White Randy Jones Christian Ehrhoff Toni Lydman Zbyněk Mich Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfive Report post Posted July 21, 2009 Considering that JR's moves are quite surprising most of the time and the fact that he is looking for a dman to pair with Pitkanen, this could make the rest of my summer somewhat interesting. My guess would be that if there is a trade for a veteran dman it will be one that has an expiring contract. With so many contracts expiring after this season and Carson/Rodney/Borer/McBain being so close there is no point in getting someone with a semi-long to long term contract unless of course you can find a stud. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eggy21 Report post Posted July 21, 2009 Considering that JR's moves are quite surprising most of the time and the fact that he is looking for a dman to pair with Pitkanen, this could make the rest of my summer somewhat interesting. My guess would be that if there is a trade for a veteran dman it will be one that has an expiring contract. With so many contracts expiring after this season and Carson/Rodney/Borer/McBain being so close there is no point in getting someone with a semi-long to long term contract unless of course you can find a stud. We probably won't have to do that because we already have Corvo and Wallin as UFA's next year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted July 21, 2009 I must say after watching JR this is getting very interesting. I don't think Rutuu is going to be part of a trade. But I do think Kabs gets bought out and we make a deal or perhaps two deals before August. At least JR gave us something to think and talk about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
