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Playing GM for the 2009-2010 Season

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The lowest salary of any defenseman close to him in the goal category this past season was $4.1 million, so Babchuk IS worth more than $1.2 million. I just hope that Rutherford gets some type of asset in return for him, whether it be a draft pick or prospect.

This. Plus as said before if you are on the powerplay, or even if you are not, and you have 2 guys from the other team solely focused on shutting down a defenseman like Babs... That should be a goal almost every time because that means 1-2 of your guys are sitting open in the offensive zone... pass-pass-goal. an offensive D-man like that is an asset not a liability. Usually the other teams D only has to worry about the forwards on the ice as the real threat, throw one in the back end and the opportunities should present themselves.

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Does anyone know what the next step is now that the QO has expired? Given that it has expired I would think he could not sign it. There are NO offer sheets for him so is trade or russia the only thing left?

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Does anyone know what the next step is now that the QO has expired? Given that it has expired I would think he could not sign it. There are NO offer sheets for him so is trade or russia the only thing left?

Canes still hold his rights, so I'm pretty sure if JR wanted to he could still offer him a contract. Since we all know JR ain't going to sign him, if he wants to play in the NHL, he better hope some team offers JR what he wants. Since its about August, no offer sheets are thrown at him (no surprise there) I think he starts out in Russia. If he has a good showing there, his stock might go up, but right now, I don't think his stock is as high as some on this board like to think.

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Canes still hold his rights, so I'm pretty sure if JR wanted to he could still offer him a contract. Since we all know JR ain't going to sign him, if he wants to play in the NHL, he better hope some team offers JR what he wants. Since its about August, no offer sheets are thrown at him (no surprise there) I think he starts out in Russia. If he has a good showing there, his stock might go up, but right now, I don't think his stock is as high as some on this board like to think.

No, it isn't as high, given Babchuk seemingly doesn't know what "play defense in the defensive zone" means and has a history of off-ice issues (throwing the water bottle, bolting to Russia). I think playoffs are huge in determining how good a player really is, which is why Cole didn't get a FA contract, and why no teams are seriously interested in Babchuk. I wouldn't be surprised that the reason he was so bad in the playoffs was because he wasn't making any money during them and thus he didn't care about what happened.

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No, it isn't as high, given Babchuk seemingly doesn't know what "play defense in the defensive zone" means and has a history of off-ice issues (throwing the water bottle, bolting to Russia). I think playoffs are huge in determining how good a player really is, which is why Cole didn't get a FA contract, and why no teams are seriously interested in Babchuk. I wouldn't be surprised that the reason he was so bad in the playoffs was because he wasn't making any money during them and thus he didn't care about what happened.

Players are often judged by how they perform in the playoffs, but that certainly doesn't "determine how good a player really is". Take Jeremy Roenick, for example. I want even go into the whole "off-ice issues", because as has been pointed out by a few, outside these two well quoted instances, there is nothing to prove that is really true. Feel free to provide something factual if it indeed exists (no one has been successful thus far). To suggest Babchuk did a dive in the playoffs because his salary left him unconcerned or with a "I don't care attitude" is probably the weakest thing in support of JR's attitude I have read thus far.

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Players are often judged by how they perform in the playoffs, but that certainly doesn't "determine how good a player really is". Take Jeremy Roenick, for example. I want even go into the whole "off-ice issues", because as has been pointed out by a few, outside these two well quoted instances, there is nothing to prove that is really true. Feel free to provide something factual if it indeed exists (no one has been successful thus far). To suggest Babchuk did a dive in the playoffs because his salary left him unconcerned or with a "I don't care attitude" is probably the weakest thing in support of JR's attitude I have read thus far.

Ok well, for one he refused to go to the AHL when asked a couple years ago. JR wanted him to develop there but he seemed to prefer being a healthy scratch. And you aren't going to hear everything that goes on behind closed doors. Managers know they may have trade players at some point, and it is in their best interest to hide the little things about players that could make them less appealing. Not saying anything was necessarily "hidden" about Babchuk, but there are obviously things WE never hear about.

But anyway, if Babchuk has gotten over the issues, and if he is so great, tell me why hasn't he been traded or signed anywhere???

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The problem here is that JR is right. Anyone else realize that the rest of the league caught on pretty quickly on not letting Babs get his shot off from the right point? I mean everytime he got the puck in that area he had at least two people clog the shooting lane and basically he couldn't get that bomb of a shot through...offensively he was a one trick pony. Take away his offense and he becomes a huge liability that is worth maybe $1.2 million a year, but not a penny more. If he improves defensively and develops another weapon then he is worth $2+, but not until then.

His past actions haven't endeared himself to JR and this was pretty much the breaking point. He thinks he is worth more than he REALLY is. I side with JR.

I wouldnt call him a one trick pony. remember, a lot of his goals came from sneaking down from the point, an he was good at it. Babchuck has some great puck handling skills for offense and has a good scoring ability...if only he wasnt so frustrating to negotiate with.

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No, it isn't as high, given Babchuk seemingly doesn't know what "play defense in the defensive zone" means and has a history of off-ice issues (throwing the water bottle, bolting to Russia). I think playoffs are huge in determining how good a player really is, which is why Cole didn't get a FA contract, and why no teams are seriously interested in Babchuk. I wouldn't be surprised that the reason he was so bad in the playoffs was because he wasn't making any money during them and thus he didn't care about what happened.

Cole did get a FA contract he got the numbers from that contract from whichever team and came back to JR and said this is what I'll take from Carolina. Which is less then that team offered. It was quoted in another topic just not sure which one.

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Ok well, for one he refused to go to the AHL when asked a couple years ago. JR wanted him to develop there but he seemed to prefer being a healthy scratch. And you aren't going to hear everything that goes on behind closed doors. Managers know they may have trade players at some point, and it is in their best interest to hide the little things about players that could make them less appealing. Not saying anything was necessarily "hidden" about Babchuk, but there are obviously things WE never hear about.

But anyway, if Babchuk has gotten over the issues, and if he is so great, tell me why hasn't he been traded or signed anywhere???

Again, you provide no factual information to support your claim that Babchuk has continuing "off-ice" issues. Just a rehash of what you stated previously, that he wouldn't go to the AHL several years ago. Did you forget about the bottle throwing this time? So again, care to add any factual information above and beyond your own speculation that Babchuk has continuing off-ice issues? If you can, then maybe I'll entertain your speculation that this is the primary reason he hasn't been signed.

Could be he wants more than most GM's are willing to pay? Could be a trade is in the works? Maybe he stubbed his toe? But given his offensive production this year (which is a fact by the way), and the fact he was a first rounder, I would be surprised if he isn't on another NHL roster this year.

Time will tell.

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Again, you provide no factual information to support your claim that Babchuk has continuing "off-ice" issues. Just a rehash of what you stated previously, that he wouldn't go to the AHL several years ago. Did you forget about the bottle throwing this time? So again, care to add any factual information above and beyond your own speculation that Babchuk has continuing off-ice issues? If you can, then maybe I'll entertain your speculation that this is the primary reason he hasn't been signed.

Could be he wants more than most GM's are willing to pay? Could be a trade is in the works? Maybe he stubbed his toe? But given his offensive production this year (which is a fact by the way), and the fact he was a first rounder, I would be surprised if he isn't on another NHL roster this year.

Time will tell.

If you actually read what I wrote (if you did then you're just putting words in my mouth, or in this case words on my fingers lol) I never said the primary reason he isn't signed is because of off-ice issues. Obviously that is rarely the PRIMARY issue with a player. Primary is on-ice, and he has his issues there too, if he didn't we wouldn't be having this conversation, b/c JR would have signed him. In my opinion (I am entitled to one, correct?), Babchuk represents what is wrong with the Canes Defense - doesn't use his size for physicality, i.e. doesn't hit, and he is horrendous in his own zone. With size usually comes poor agility, and Babchuk one on one versus a skilled forward is a nightmare to watch. Obviously Rutherford thinks that a shut-down defenseman who hits like Aaron Ward is more important to this team than Babchuk. I agree completely with Rutherford in this case, but again, my opinion.

As for factual support, I will never have it unless I employed by the Carolina Hurricanes and deal with the players. And you can't just act like the Russia thing isn't a big deal. If you were a GM interested in Babchuk right now, you would have to wonder- if I trade for this guy, how will I know he will sign? He wouldn't sign for 1 mil in Carolina, how much does he want? If he wants too much, will he go back to Russia, making me look like a fool for trading for him?

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Players are often judged by how they perform in the playoffs, but that certainly doesn't "determine how good a player really is". Take Jeremy Roenick, for example. I want even go into the whole "off-ice issues", because as has been pointed out by a few, outside these two well quoted instances, there is nothing to prove that is really true. Feel free to provide something factual if it indeed exists (no one has been successful thus far). To suggest Babchuk did a dive in the playoffs because his salary left him unconcerned or with a "I don't care attitude" is probably the weakest thing in support of JR's attitude I have read thus far.

Chicago fans aren't surprised that Carolina isn't re-signing him. The stated his "off-ice" issues as a reason Chicago traded him in the first place. Feel free to troll some Chicago boards and ask around.

To add though, his 16 goals isn't enough to warrant a contract more than $1.2M. If your main position is defense, I, as i'm sure GMs expect you to know how to play the position. Babchuk can't. His skating is horrendous, he's slow, he's got a big frame, but doesn't use it (which is frustrating as H-E double hockey sticks), and he's known to have a bit of an attitude. Not to mention he's already run off to Russia once when things weren't going his way. All of this plays a factor into how much he is worth. Babchuk thinks he is worth more b/c of his 16 goals, but isn't taking into account all the negatives he posseses.

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Canes still hold his rights, so I'm pretty sure if JR wanted to he could still offer him a contract. Since we all know JR ain't going to sign him, if he wants to play in the NHL, he better hope some team offers JR what he wants. Since its about August, no offer sheets are thrown at him (no surprise there) I think he starts out in Russia. If he has a good showing there, his stock might go up, but right now, I don't think his stock is as high as some on this board like to think.

There have also been no Offer Sheets on any RFA in the whole NHL this year period. Putting an offer sheet on a player is a slap in the face to the other GM and rarely happens. JR said he wanted to be done with Babchuk by the beginning of this week, if he hasn't been talking trades with teams then I would think he would have already been happy to come out and tell everyone he is sending Babs to go rot back in Russia.

I'm predicting we will see Babchuk traded for a prospect within a week and that prospect will be a pretty good one that everyone will be happy to receive.

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Chicago fans aren't surprised that Carolina isn't re-signing him. The stated his "off-ice" issues as a reason Chicago traded him in the first place. Feel free to troll some Chicago boards and ask around.

To add though, his 16 goals isn't enough to warrant a contract more than $1.2M. If your main position is defense, I, as i'm sure GMs expect you to know how to play the position. Babchuk can't. His skating is horrendous, he's slow, he's got a big frame, but doesn't use it (which is frustrating as H-E double hockey sticks), and he's known to have a bit of an attitude. Not to mention he's already run off to Russia once when things weren't going his way. All of this plays a factor into how much he is worth. Babchuk thinks he is worth more b/c of his 16 goals, but isn't taking into account all the negatives he posseses.

26th in the league among defensemen for plus/minus last year. You would think GM's might like that also, says something about his play in his own zone. Not to mention he is only 25 with just 2 seasons of NHL experience and only getting better.

Everyone makes a big deal about him going back to Russia, that is extremely common with any European players. It's not to defy the GM or hurt the organization, it is because they feel that their countries pro league they would play in is better than the AHL (Which could very well be the truth) and they would gain more experience playing there making them a better player for when they get called to the NHL.

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Looking at the Babs issue after the free agent frenzy is over, I have a little different opinion. Early I thought J.R. had lowballed Babs (but not by a lot) and was just going to stick it to him for failing to go to Albany. After some of the other D-men have been signed around the league at minimal contracts, maybe what the offer was is about right. The problem now is that both sides are probably too proud to go back down that road.

While we all had our opinions of how J.R. handled the deal, maybe his offer was about right, but the way it came across to us through the media it just sounded wrong. I'm sure Babs felt slighted by not being offered a raise, but truth be told, a lot of players in the league fell in that same boat this season. Since we now have Ward and Alberts there is no room for Babs so to re-sign him now would only be to trade.

From the outside looking in, Babs agent should see if J.R. can work a sign and trade scenario for Babs' qualifying offer. With the other contracts this season, it would be in line. It's just never going to work out here for Babs. My problems with J.R.'s handling is that from what we have heard it seems that he has driven down Babs' stock. Of course, most of the negative comments about attitude and such have come from this board and not from J.R.

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I give up. All I ever said is I didn't agree with JR on this one. He deserved a raise over the QO. I've even stated somewhere in this thread in the range of 1.3, based soley on his play this year. As for the off-ice thing, I continue to ask for some factual evidence that his attitude was a problem THIS SEASON. The only response I, and others have gotten, is "ask Chicago, he wouldn't agree to play in the AHL, or he threw a water bottle at a fan." Folks, that wasn't this season. Nothing I have seen, heard, or read suggests he was a problem in the locker room this year. In fact, Mo praised his play.

I challenge anyone to find a quote where I suggest he is the second coming of Bobby Orr. I just think the kid has promise and it may have been a little early to give up on him. If he and his agent have an inflated value of his worth, and won't or haven't budged in negotiations with JR, then so be it. I'll be the first to wave goodbye.

I've also stated things have progressed (or not) to the point that it's time to move on. I certainly like the moves JR has made, on paper, relative to our restructured defense. So, no arguments from me there. But I would rather have seen a Alberts-Babchuk pairing than one with Wallin.

I'm officially done with the Babchuk debate and saga until such time as it may need to resurface ( ;).

I am also now understanding the concept of "mob mentality". :)

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:lol:

I love this board sometimes. I step out and the feeding frenzy finds a new target.

drinking should be a required part of reading this board!!

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Those insisting on direct evidence that Babchuk's issues are off ice are barking up the wrong tree. It is very rare for a GM to actually say, "so and so is quite simply psychotic and a horse's *edit*, he has been nothing short of astoundingly self-centered and a complete drain on me and the team." Not even sure if a piece of work like Sean Avery draws quotes like that.

While it is not as absolutely compelling as direct evidence, circumstantial evidence can be very strong evidence. The 3 year old with chocolate on their face and a half eaten cupcake on the table is pretty convincing, despite no witnesses.

Babchuk is simply too good to just toss him away. Plus, very little of what JR has said reflected badly on Babchuk's play. At the very least JR could have given Babchuk the slight raise, acted like he was our #4 defenseman of the future and then traded him. That would have been most GM-like, and what he would have done if it was about on-ice play. Instead he has decreased Bab's trade value and his own bargaining position. It simply only makes sense if something happened off ice. I didn't see the plane crash, but I see the debris so I'm pretty sure it crashed.

In the end JR may get value, but maybe not. If nothing else JR would not have handled it this way if it was just about Babchuk's defensive zone play. There simply has to be something more to it (off ice).

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The only time we're asking for evidence of his off ice issues is when they're brought up like facts. For all anyone knows, this could all just stem from Anton's refusal to report a couple years ago. Still an off-ice issue, but there's no actual evidence of a "bad attitude" this year. And I would have thought this board would learn not to judge someone on their past, considering how many reclamation projects the Canes have grabbed.

And uh...to try and move away from this topic (again), anyone heard anything about Malhotra? We need a 4th line center, and he's a great centerman. Only problem is, he's much better than 4th line minutes, and JR already said he doesn't want Brindamour playing the 4th line (or something to that effect).

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The only time we're asking for evidence of his off ice issues is when they're brought up like facts. For all anyone knows, this could all just stem from Anton's refusal to report a couple years ago. Still an off-ice issue, but there's no actual evidence of a "bad attitude" this year. And I would have thought this board would learn not to judge someone on their past, considering how many reclamation projects the Canes have grabbed.

And uh...to try and move away from this topic (again), anyone heard anything about Malhotra? We need a 4th line center, and he's a great centerman. Only problem is, he's much better than 4th line minutes, and JR already said he doesn't want Brindamour playing the 4th line (or something to that effect).

Yeah I think JR also said that Brind'Amour would have to prove his worth in training camp to make the team this year. Hopefully he can come back strong because he was a liability as the third line center for a lot of last year.

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