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Playing GM for the 2009-2010 Season

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I wonder how many of the 102 pages in this thread have the name "Babchuk" in them :lol:

I'm going with 102.

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Eh, it was a new development that involved him. Is there a reason it shouldn't discussed? As already said, if the new agent can't get it done, it's because either Babchuk or JR is asking for too much.

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Irbe ring a bell? Guy goes from this:

022504_irbeCover.jpg

To this:

slapshot.jpg

Because of a contract dispute with JR. There's a reason JR rarely goes to arbitration. The players know he's got no problem bringing out their dirty laundry, and if JR thinks he's overpaying, he'll correct it, one way or another.

I need to correct you on this one Mr. Frog! The Irbe situation came about because after the '02 run he wanted to renegotiate his contract. He felt he should be the highest paid player on the team. We all know how JR is about that issue and told Irbe NO! Irbe pretty much threw a temper tantrum from that point on and it showed in his play. He became a distraction in the locker room and on the ice the guys would just ignore him (look at our team record). JR tried without success to trade him, he kept getting shelled in the AHL too so he was loaned to the ECHL team. He became a hero of sorts and an inspiration to most of those guys. I was disappointed he ended his tenure that way here but that's business.

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Eh, it was a new development that involved him. Is there a reason it shouldn't discussed? As already said, if the new agent can't get it done, it's because either Babchuk or JR is asking for too much.

I was just giving my guess in response to the question.

Let me ask you this Frog... if Babchuk has fired his agent because he couldn't get the job done, yet an offer was sitting on the table where he could have stayed put and in one more season, earned free agency to play wherever he saw fit, is it even remotely possible that he's had some really bad guidance from his agent? He had every chance to sign his QO and go out and prove to every other GM in the league that he wasnt high maintenance and was worth a decent contract. Dennis Seidenberg is still not signed anywhere yet because his agent obviously misjudged the market in this economy.

There are some who think his "career season' could have been an aberration of sorts. Did his agent not trust that he could put up those kind of numbers again keeping his value high for free agency? Other teams figured him out by the playoffs so who's to say other teams and coaches werent taking notes. Just saying, we don't really know whats gone on here so it is quite a stretch comparing this situation to Irbe's, and I dont think you have all your facts straight from that situation either. I'm not saying your JR conspiracy theory against Babchuk isn't possible but it seems like an awful lot of energy to be spent by JR just to lose a trade, pick or even Babchuk himself.

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...JR conspiracy theory against Babchuk...

Maybe we need to Oliver Stone to do a movie about this. Maybe Babs was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll. Maybe Babs was responsible for faking the moon landing.

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Maybe we need to Oliver Stone to do a movie about this. Maybe Babs was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll. Maybe Babs was responsible for faking the moon landing.

or maybe he faked the grassy knoll with a 2nd gunman while mooning someone!!

Disclaimer: No grass, knolls, gunmen, moon, or mooning were harmed while making this post.

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I'm not saying your JR conspiracy theory against Babchuk isn't possible but it seems like an awful lot of energy to be spent by JR just to lose a trade, pick or even Babchuk himself.

I don't know how deep any conspiracy runs, but it would seem pretty clear that there is somethingthat is not straightforward here. It just makes no sense on it's face that JR would basically just walk away from a guy who showed the flashes Babchuk did. JR has filled up the defense and spent the budget and there Babchuk sits. On top of that he makes negative comments about the situation, basically saying, "your dead to me".

This is not Tanabe. This guy showed flashes of brilliance. Yes, he may not be ready for prime time defensively, but he hasn't played that many NHL games and his offensive ability should be at the least marketable. He is clearly at worst a VERY promising prospect. At best could be in the top 10 in scoring for dmen. Something is afoul. Don't know what it is, but it is about as interesting as anything else going on at the moment.

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Just FYI:

RFA Qualifying Offer:

A team needs to give a QO to an RFA by June 25 - a 1yr deal with a either 10% raise (if the player was making <=$660K), a 5% raise (<=$1M), or the same salary as last season (>$1M). If a team does not offer a QO to a pending RFA, he becomes a UFA on July 1.

If a player is given a QO, whether he ever accepts it or not, that player remains an RFA. All QOs expire on July 15.

Once a team makes a QO to a potential RFA, the only outcomes are:

1. The player accepts the QO by 7/15

2. The player negotiates a new contract for whatever terms with his current club. If an RFA does not sign by December 1, he is inelligible to play in the NHL that season.

3. The player signs an offer sheet with another team. His current team can either match principle terms (dollars and length) of the offer sheet and keep the player or decline to match and receive draft pick compensation.

4. The player elects to take the team to arbitration (if eligible).

5. The team elects to take the player to arbitration.

6. The player decides to play elsewhere (overseas, AHL, etc).

Babchuk is at JR's mercy to be traded. Him getting a new agent should help his chance of getting traded. Wonder if a team interested in Babchuk can talk to his agent prior to a trade?

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Babchuk is at JR's mercy to be traded. Him getting a new agent should help his chance of getting traded. Wonder if a team interested in Babchuk can talk to his agent prior to a trade?

I think this is the driving force behind the change of agents. Babs wants to play in the NHL and since he can't fire himself, he has to fire his agent. New agent walks in and says that everything that happened before was the old agent's fault and "can't we all just get along".

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I think this is the driving force behind the change of agents. Babs wants to play in the NHL and since he can't fire himself, he has to fire his agent. New agent walks in and says that everything that happened before was the old agent's fault and "can't we all just get along".

Plus he has Keenan now and he has a real decent rep with players and GM's.

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Now Babchuks breaking up families, what will this *edit* do next? lol

You could make that movie about Babs a lot like "Forest Gump" except with him ruining everything and taking part in all the conspiracies. Just have him moving through time going from disaster to disaster.

Babs sunk the Titanic. Babs made the Hindenburg crash and burn. JFK, the moon landing, Area 51; he could be responsible for all of it. Call Oliver Stone I'm telling you, of course nobody in the world would get the joke except us. :lol:

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You could make that movie about Babs a lot like "Forest Gump" except with him ruining everything and taking part in all the conspiracies. Just have him moving through time going from disaster to disaster.

Babs sunk the Titanic. Babs made the Hindenburg crash and burn. JFK, the moon landing, Area 51; he could be responsible for all of it. Call Oliver Stone I'm telling you, of course nobody in the world would get the joke except us. :lol:

I KNOW he is responsible for the increase in the rabbit population this year.

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Just FYI:

RFA Qualifying Offer:

A team needs to give a QO to an RFA by June 25 - a 1yr deal with a either 10% raise (if the player was making <=$660K), a 5% raise (<=$1M), or the same salary as last season (>$1M). If a team does not offer a QO to a pending RFA, he becomes a UFA on July 1.

If a player is given a QO, whether he ever accepts it or not, that player remains an RFA. All QOs expire on July 15.

Once a team makes a QO to a potential RFA, the only outcomes are:

1. The player accepts the QO by 7/15

2. The player negotiates a new contract for whatever terms with his current club. If an RFA does not sign by December 1, he is inelligible to play in the NHL that season.

3. The player signs an offer sheet with another team. His current team can either match principle terms (dollars and length) of the offer sheet and keep the player or decline to match and receive draft pick compensation.

4. The player elects to take the team to arbitration (if eligible).

5. The team elects to take the player to arbitration.

6. The player decides to play elsewhere (overseas, AHL, etc).

Babchuk is at JR's mercy to be traded. Him getting a new agent should help his chance of getting traded. Wonder if a team interested in Babchuk can talk to his agent prior to a trade?

Good info, thanks for posting. Looks like Babchuk is without any options or a team. I bet the closer we get to camp, some team will want to take their chances on him. Hopefully his new agent advises him to sign anywhere he can if he wants to stay in the NHL. If he's really worthy of a better payday, he'll have all season t prove it.

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Good info, thanks for posting. Looks like Babchuk is without any options or a team. I bet the closer we get to camp, some team will want to take their chances on him. Hopefully his new agent advises him to sign anywhere he can if he wants to stay in the NHL. If he's really worthy of a better payday, he'll have all season t prove it.

That would be my guess also. When Babs changed agents he may have defused the situation between himself and JR making it easier for a trade. If he has become more realistic in salary expectations and now that he has said he wants to stay in the NHL it should be easier to find him a new home.

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Good info, thanks for posting. Looks like Babchuk is without any options or a team. I bet the closer we get to camp, some team will want to take their chances on him. Hopefully his new agent advises him to sign anywhere he can if he wants to stay in the NHL. If he's really worthy of a better payday, he'll have all season t prove it.

That would be my guess also. When Babs changed agents he may have defused the situation between himself and JR making it easier for a trade. If he has become more realistic in salary expectations and now that he has said he wants to stay in the NHL it should be easier to find him a new home.

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I was just giving my guess in response to the question.

Let me ask you this Frog... if Babchuk has fired his agent because he couldn't get the job done, yet an offer was sitting on the table where he could have stayed put and in one more season, earned free agency to play wherever he saw fit, is it even remotely possible that he's had some really bad guidance from his agent? He had every chance to sign his QO and go out and prove to every other GM in the league that he wasnt high maintenance and was worth a decent contract. Dennis Seidenberg is still not signed anywhere yet because his agent obviously misjudged the market in this economy.

There are some who think his "career season' could have been an aberration of sorts. Did his agent not trust that he could put up those kind of numbers again keeping his value high for free agency? Other teams figured him out by the playoffs so who's to say other teams and coaches werent taking notes. Just saying, we don't really know whats gone on here so it is quite a stretch comparing this situation to Irbe's, and I dont think you have all your facts straight from that situation either. I'm not saying your JR conspiracy theory against Babchuk isn't possible but it seems like an awful lot of energy to be spent by JR just to lose a trade, pick or even Babchuk himself.

Well, I said the theory about JR was a stretch in the first place. Just another possibility to consider. Since Babs is replacing his agent, he obviously feels his agent is the problem and there's no reason to doubt that at the moment. However, I do have to question a lot of what JR is saying about the whole situation.

On the 3rd, he claims that a team contacted him about Babchuk "a couple weeks ago, but has not called back". On the 19th, he claimed "There are teams looking for defensemen. But we're not close to making a trade with anyone."

Now, I'm fairly certain the team discussed in the first quote was the Rangers, who according to Tortorella, had a "definite interest" in Babchuk in an interview given during the draft day. Any link to that quote is currently dead in the water (as the draft was in late June), but it's something like "Talks haven't reached a price figure, but there's a definite interest there". Since the Rangers have yet to acquire anyone that would fit the same role as Babchuk, either the asking price was too high (which is the current rumor) or the interest is still there (which would make the quote from JR very strange)

The other team that Babchuk had said was interested in his services (Vancouver, during the Russian interview), just recently traded with the Sharks for Christian Ehrhoff. So it seems that they were looking for an offensive defenseman, and Babchuk likely would have been on their radar. Now, the Canucks acquired Ehrhoff (and Lukowich) for two fringe prospects. If JR is looking for a good young prospect for Babchuk, as he has said, and Ehrhoff only garnered fringe prospects, makes me believe JR's asking price may be a little high for a guy he's trashed all summer.

As for why Babchuk doesn't sign the QO, suck it up and play for a year, it's because there should be no reason he should have to. This past year could be an aberration, it very well could. However, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be paid fairly for his services of this past year. There's nothing wrong with a player cashing in on a career year. Say you're working at your job (whatever that may be), and you're getting paid to put out 100% efficiency. Then your boss tells you if you work hard next year, you'll earn a raise. So you work your hardest that next year, perform three times the amount of work expected of you, and then approach your boss for that raise. He tells you "Good job, do it again next year and you'll have that raise. Until then, here's the same amount we paid you when you were doing less work." Wouldn't you want to be paid a higher wage, especially if you're unsure that you could repeat that 3x performance?

But again, this might just be me. Right now, it's the old agent's fault and this is all just spitballing. We'll see how it works out.

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Babs will end up signing an NHL contract for close to our QO and we will get a bag of pucks. Okay, I've said it a gumzillion times but one more won't break the bank. Plus, everytime I say it Remkin owes me one for that first line winger! :P

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If I were GM I would sign Babchuk and play him for the first half of the season then trade him before the playoff run so that we could get his good reg season play and skip out on the failing in the playoffs.

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As for why Babchuk doesn't sign the QO, suck it up and play for a year, it's because there should be no reason he should have to. This past year could be an aberration, it very well could. However, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be paid fairly for his services of this past year. There's nothing wrong with a player cashing in on a career year.

No reason he should have to? How many times can it be said - he has no arbitration rights. He screwed himself. There's your reason. You can say it doesn't/shouldn't/couldn't matter all you want, but there it is.

Say you're working at your job (whatever that may be), and you're getting paid to put out 100% efficiency. Then your boss tells you if you work hard next year, you'll earn a raise. So you work your hardest that next year, perform three times the amount of work expected of you, and then approach your boss for that raise. He tells you "Good job, do it again next year and you'll have that raise. Until then, here's the same amount we paid you when you were doing less work." Wouldn't you want to be paid a higher wage, especially if you're unsure that you could repeat that 3x performance?

But again, this might just be me. Right now, it's the old agent's fault and this is all just spitballing. We'll see how it works out.

The scenario you laid out here happens all the time in the real world. It's happened a lot in the last year to a lot of people I know, myself included. Hell yeah I want that raise, but if my only option is no raise or head somewhere else for unknown territory, well, I have a family to feed. Here's another scenario that's a little closer to the Babchuk situation - if you're in college, and everyone tells you you should be making $40k when you get out, but your only offer is $25k, are you going to turn it down because you should be getting more?

Your looking at this as an idealist, JR is looking at it as a realist, and as a businessman. If the other guy holds ALL the cards, you're not going to get far.

...makes me believe JR's asking price may be a little high for a guy he's trashed all summer.

I haven't heard JR "trash" Babchuk once. He hasn't had anything rosy to say, but what he has said - along the lines of "take the QO or go elsewhere" - was pretty obvious, since he is holding the cards here. It's pretty clear he wasn't expected back. GMs have said much worse about players still on their roster. I'll grant you he could have been nicer, but on the other hand he made it clear from day 1 what his offer was and where he stood.

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That's the whole point. JR's said Babchuk's not making the team from day 1, he's expendable, his talents weren't good enough to make the Canes. But he expects other teams to offer their great prospects and/or top picks for him? If the asking price for Babchuk is as high as it's rumored to be, it's no wonder JR's not been contacted about him for weeks.

As for your scenario, it would be "You should be making 40k, your employer is offering 25k. You have another offer of 33k elsewhere, but your old employer refuses to accept your resignation. So you can either take the 25k or sit there and wait for your union to work things out"

That's the main reason I said the theory was a stretch. If JR is icing Babchuk, the NHLPA would and should be all over it.

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Honestly I say JR just trades Babchuk and get is over with maybe we can get a draft pick and a prospect or just a pick or just a prospect. Babchuk doesnt really want to play for carolina any more and I dont think JR cares if Babchuk doesnt wear a Hurricanes uniform we have plenty of depth at D-man with the addition of Ward and Alberts I think we will be fine at D-man without Babchuk.

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