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Canes-Fan-In-Montreal

Playing GM for the 2009-2010 Season

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That's the whole point. JR's said Babchuk's not making the team from day 1, he's expendable, his talents weren't good enough to make the Canes. But he expects other teams to offer their great prospects and/or top picks for him? If the asking price for Babchuk is as high as it's rumored to be, it's no wonder JR's not been contacted about him for weeks.

As for your scenario, it would be "You should be making 40k, your employer is offering 25k. You have another offer of 33k elsewhere, but your old employer refuses to accept your resignation. So you can either take the 25k or sit there and wait for your union to work things out"

That's the main reason I said the theory was a stretch. If JR is icing Babchuk, the NHLPA would and should be all over it.

I really doubt JR is "icing" Babchuk, but he is probably holding out for a really juicy prospect. The thing is, one just gets the feeling that JR is coming from a position of: "If I get what I want for Babchuk great. If not, the heck with it, go back where you came from. I could really care less". Of course JR can avoid the union by simply making his asking price too high. Still take calls and try to make a deal, but ask for the moon.

This may be some kind of negotiating ploy, but it is so unusual that I think something has irked JR to get him to this point.

I am hoping that he finds a really nice prospect, which is at least what Babchuk ought to be worth.

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I really doubt JR is "icing" Babchuk, but he is probably holding out for a really juicy prospect. The thing is, one just gets the feeling that JR is coming from a position of: "If I get what I want for Babchuk great. If not, the heck with it, go back where you came from. I could really care less". Of course JR can avoid the union by simply making his asking price too high. Still take calls and try to make a deal, but ask for the moon.

This may be some kind of negotiating ploy, but it is so unusual that I think something has irked JR to get him to this point.

I am hoping that he finds a really nice prospect, which is at least what Babchuk ought to be worth.

with Keenan as his agent, I don't see JR playing too many games because Keenan represents other Canes and it could come back to bite him. Keenan will get something done that benefits Babs and JR.

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Tanguay is signing with the Lightning for $2.6 per THN.com.... He takes a huge pay cut to play with a team that is going to blow? Surely he would rather play for a team like the Canes who have a chance this year.

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Strike that.... according to spectorshockey.net "Carolina is within $1 million of the cap." Can you believe that?! Never thought I would hear it. I mean I know its not actual dollars, its cap dollars but still. Maybe PK has been reading this board :D

Hopefully that wont limit what we do at the trade deadline. I expect JR to bring in some big guns for a strong run at the Cup.

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I usually go off of nhlnumbers.com, according to them we are about $2mil under. What is getting us close is mainly Staal's deal (salary way below cap hit) and buyouts to Hamilton and Kabs. The new RFA contracts also make an impact. It's going to make for an interesting summer next year, that's for sure, especially if the cap goes down.

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According to spectorshockey.net, Ryan Bayda is still looking for a one way deal and will only sign a two way if he can find a team that will call him up regularly (we are not one of those teams). He may also go play in Europe. :(

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I like Bayda but going Euro would end his NHL aspirations. I dont think he did anything last season other then completely fly under the radar, you never knew when he was on the ice and that's not what you want out of a forward.

If he wants a one way deal he needs to step his game up big time.

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I like Bayda but going Euro would end his NHL aspirations. I dont think he did anything last season other then completely fly under the radar, you never knew when he was on the ice and that's not what you want out of a forward.

If he wants a one way deal he needs to step his game up big time.

I would have to disagree with you about him never being noticed. I thought he brought his A game every night and after many games, he would stick out in my mind more than some of the big stars (especially early in the season). Granted when the 4th line is getting 5 minutes a game, it's hard to rack up the points (12 regular season and 4 in the playoffs), but for what he was given, I thought he did really well.

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I would have to disagree with you about him never being noticed. I thought he brought his A game every night and after many games, he would stick out in my mind more than some of the big stars (especially early in the season). Granted when the 4th line is getting 5 minutes a game, it's hard to rack up the points (12 regular season and 4 in the playoffs), but for what he was given, I thought he did really well.

I have to agree with rmilano, I thought he was very noticable and had a great year. Unfortunately for him, this team got deep and bigger so a smaller sized 3rd/4th line player became expendable for the roster spot. Im certain that if he would be willing to take a 2-way deal he'd be re-signed in a minute but I can understand from his point why he wouldn't want that. He's worked hard to get his 1 way deal last season and gave 100% every shift. Kind of reminds me of Keith Aucoin who was a very dependable fill in/call up who earned a 1 way deal. It just couldn't happen financially with the Canes.

That said, if Bayda doesn't get any 1 way offers, taking a 2 way here will almost guarantee being called up for injury since he has so much experience.

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I have to agree with rmilano, I thought he was very noticable and had a great year. Unfortunately for him, this team got deep and bigger so a smaller sized 3rd/4th line player became expendable for the roster spot. Im certain that if he would be willing to take a 2-way deal he'd be re-signed in a minute but I can understand from his point why he wouldn't want that. He's worked hard to get his 1 way deal last season and gave 100% every shift. Kind of reminds me of Keith Aucoin who was a very dependable fill in/call up who earned a 1 way deal. It just couldn't happen financially with the Canes.

That said, if Bayda doesn't get any 1 way offers, taking a 2 way here will almost guarantee being called up for injury since he has so much experience.

Bingo. I can't fault him for wanting a more stable situation for his family, and frankly I think he's earned a one deal. I know that JR was going to leave the 2-way deal on the table for some time; I wonder if that's still an option. I would love to have him return as part of our organization next season.

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Couldn't agree more. Bayda is a dependable plug-in forward who I noticed on many occasions, even though he was seeing limited ice time. I remember he had a little toughness going in the playoffs and didn't back away from anybody. Can't blame him for wanting a one-way. I would sure like him back on the team if he had to take a two-way deal. I hope it works out for him.

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That's the whole point. JR's said Babchuk's not making the team from day 1, he's expendable, his talents weren't good enough to make the Canes.

Not sure why I even bother but.........can I get a source for where youve read these comments from JR "since day 1".

P.S. the QO, if accepted, would have put Babchuk on the team, so JR offered him a spot.

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He's 29 and the only qualities you guys have listed can be done by a younger player with a 2 way deal. It sucks but it's business.

From the ethical standpoint yes he's earned his 1 way deal, but from a business standpoint he only put up 12 points last year and while he gives it his all every shift there is always someone else who can give thier all waiting to come up whose cheaper and will take the 2 way deal. You gotta be able to do more then give it your all in this league, Chad gives it his all but is a standout pk'er with a bit of a scoring touch that's why Chad's stuck. You dont get that with Bayda.

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You're right, you dont get that with Bayda and thats exactly why he was odd man out. What you do get is a known commodity who has proved he can step in at the NHL level at anytime who will plug a hole and give 110% in whatever role he's given. It also would help to keep from rushing a young player that may or may not be ready for primetime, not to mention Bayda can provide veteran leadership in Albany that will be missed with Conboy on a 1-way deal now.

I sill think he deserves a better fate on a team not as deep but I'd be happy to have him around when things start heating up and call ups are needed.

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Not sure why I even bother but.........can I get a source for where youve read these comments from JR "since day 1".

P.S. the QO, if accepted, would have put Babchuk on the team, so JR offered him a spot.

Paraphrasing, but I believe near the beginning of the offseason, JR stated something to the effect of "He can take the QO or go back to Russia". Certainly sounds like someone he was just dying to have on the team, right?

As for the 2nd part, I've already stated the case around JR lowballing Babchuk with the QO. Feel free to dig through the past 30 pages and look it up.

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Paraphrasing, but I believe near the beginning of the offseason, JR stated something to the effect of "He can take the QO or go back to Russia". Certainly sounds like someone he was just dying to have on the team, right?

As for the 2nd part, I've already stated the case around JR lowballing Babchuk with the QO. Feel free to dig through the past 30 pages and look it up.

I didnt hear anything from JR until it was apparent that Babchuk was not going to accept the offer. Strike 3, youre not playing on my team anymore.

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I didnt hear anything from JR until it was apparent that Babchuk was not going to accept the offer. Strike 3, youre not playing on my team anymore.

You're splitting hairs. The whole point is that JR stated he wasn't going to be on the team, then wants high end prospects for him. No GM is going to give you top end talent if they know you're looking to get rid of the player. The talent you can get becomes lower the more desperate you are to get rid of your trade bait. Other GMs are waiting for JR to become more desperate, JR's refusing to budge from his (supposedly) high demands. The NHL version of chicken.

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You're splitting hairs. The whole point is that JR stated he wasn't going to be on the team, then wants high end prospects for him. No GM is going to give you top end talent if they know you're looking to get rid of the player. The talent you can get becomes lower the more desperate you are to get rid of your trade bait. Other GMs are waiting for JR to become more desperate, JR's refusing to budge from his (supposedly) high demands. The NHL version of chicken.

Do you have a link for JR's supposed high demands? Ive not read or heard anything about what either JR or Babchuk are asking for. Only thing I ever heard was that JR offered him his QO which he refused, and then JR said he'd like to get a pick, prospect or young defenseman for him in trade. Doesnt exactly sound like high demands unless you've read something else.

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Do you have a link for JR's supposed high demands? Ive not read or heard anything about what either JR or Babchuk are asking for. Only thing I ever heard was that JR offered him his QO which he refused, and then JR said he'd like to get a pick, prospect or young defenseman for him in trade. Doesnt exactly sound like high demands unless you've read something else.

I could search if you'd like, but apparently the most activity for Babchuk was around draft day, and any link from that far back is dead. I might be able to provide a link to discussions about said draft day rumors, with a dead link (or "Heard it on the radio") to start the topic off, but that's about it.

Let me check if I can get Twitter to go that far back, since I know for a fact that was mentioned on there.

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I'm not going back through this whole thread but I remember during the Great Babchuk Debate, Round 1, something near 3 mil was thrown out. Doesn't really matter because when asked the first time about how initial talks were going with different agents, JR said about Babchuk the infamous "he can take the QO or go back to Russia." The longer this drags out the less chance the Canes will be getting back something more than a bag of pucks. From the outside looking in, it appears to me JR has cut his own throat on this one. But, that's just how I see it. When will this end?

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Theres still some legit defensive FA's who have yet to find new homes this summer. These players will likely need to be signed before a team is desperate enough to give something up for the rights to negotiate with a player with an over-inflated self worth :) . I think Babchuks salary demands, whatever they may be, could be a bigger factor than what some perceive as JR bashing him in the media.

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Theres still some legit defensive FA's who have yet to find new homes this summer. These players will likely need to be signed before a team is desperate enough to give something up for the rights to negotiate with a player with an over-inflated self worth :) . I think Babchuks salary demands, whatever they may be, could be a bigger factor than what some perceive as JR bashing him in the media.

Babs changed agents last week and that should grease the wheels a little to get something moving somehow. Babs probably did have high salary expectations, but as we have seen, many have signed for less (example - Tanguay) or not at all (example - Seidenberg). My guess would be that J.R. will tell the new agent his needs in a trade and tell the agent to go out and find something. If I were J.R. now, that's what I would do and I'd say so in an interview or on one of the little video clips that are on CanesVision.

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I don't think its that JR is asking too much for Babchuk. It was reported in Russia paper (posted/translated on HF) that Babchuk was looking for a 3 year deal. Sorry, but you are going to be hard pressed to find a team that will sign Babchuk for 3 years. Likely teams are interested, but likely for a year deal for him to PROVE himself, something Babchuk apparently doesn't want to do.

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I'm pretty sure the 3 million number was coming from D-berg's camp, not Babchuk's. At least, that's what was being thrown around on HF. As far as I can tell, Babchuk's camp hasn't thrown out a number, other than it's got to be more than the 1 million JR offered him.

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