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You don't help your case there by demeaning what and how I read on these boards; I've been here since October 2007 and let me tell ya I haven't only read two or three posts by you...or FW for that matter. You asked a question about being flamed on this message board, and I provided you with an accurate answer that was right to the point...apparently too much so for your tastes. If you don't want an honest response, then don't ask an honest question.

You accused me of having subliminal messages in my posts. I don't know how you'd prove that? But if you want to assume there are hidden meanings in my posts I can't change the way you think, but it certainly doesn't mean you are accurate when trying to tell me how I think.

Umm... I'm sorry but who cares what the media says about the Caps? And put yourself in anyone else's shoes besides our own. Washington hasn't made playoffs in FIVE YEARS and they have arguably the best player in the NHL on their team. Why wouldn't the media pull for Washington?

I don't know who wrote that blog post, but from their words, their definition of the Canes getting "respect" from the media would require the media to be biased to the Canes. Face it. The two main reasons so many are pulling for Washington isn't out of disrespect for the Canes, it's for the hope that a team with a great player can make playoffs for the first time in half a decade.

Please pull your Canes bias goggles off. ;)

I hope Washington gets in as an 8 seed.

Here's a post I found in another thread. If I had made a post like that I would be flamed and accused of "belittling" the canes and canes fans, but no one got offended by hctimo. That's my point.

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If you honestly believe the players are purposely losing games to aim for Stamkos, there's no point in arguing.

It's not the players IceFrog....it's management...teams racing to the bottom will play more rookies, play their backup more, trade big names from their team before the deadline, give more ice time to their youth.

It's not formally talked about, but it is fact and does happen. That's why the NHL brought the lottery into the NHL entry draft. Before the lottery this problem was even worse. The lottery was supposed to help eliminate this problem, which it sort of has. But lottery affected teams still get more balls the lower they are in the standing.

If you don't think this happens IceFrog then I don't know what to tell you.

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Yep, that's why Atlanta won tonight, because they were trying for Stamkos. Usually management trades big name players to not only give those players a chance to play for a contender, but to also get a good return and build for next year. That's also why they play their rookies and backups. The season's shot, so why not use the opportunity to have their backup/rookies play some real NHL games?

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Are you saying the race to the bottom doesn't exist?

Teams can't throw games, I never said that, but the intensity of the game obviously isn't there, nor is the pressure to win.

If you can get TSN, they're talking about this exact topic right now.

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Are you saying the race to the bottom doesn't exist?

Teams can't throw games, I never said that, but the intensity of the game obviously isn't there, nor is the pressure to win.

If you can get TSN, they're talking about this exact topic right now.

Being the big Canes fan that you are, Im sure you didnt miss the Canes/Tampa game the other night. Absolutely no intensity or pressure whatsoever. In fact, I think I saw Vinnie and Marty in the press box rubbing elbows with Stamkos's family. :rolleyes:

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Are you saying the race to the bottom doesn't exist?

Teams can't throw games, I never said that, but the intensity of the game obviously isn't there, nor is the pressure to win.

If you can get TSN, they're talking about this exact topic right now.

Being the big Canes fan that you are, Im sure you didnt miss the Canes/Tampa game the other night. Absolutely no intensity or pressure whatsoever. In fact, I think I saw Vinnie and Marty in the press box rubbing elbows with Stamkos's family. :rolleyes:

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Tell you guys what, if you're not going to rationally discuss this and just throw red herrings and ad hominems at me then this isn't worth continuing.

For now on I won't talk about the Canes at all in here (pos or neg), because apparently if you're not a Canes fan yourself you're only aloud to talk positively about the team and forfeit your right to say anything negative.

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I don't think Hoyle is picking specific games or giving specific examples. Because Tampa beat the canes the other night doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I understand what Hoyle is saying. It has happened in the past and , yes, a GM can dress some players who don't usually play and send out the back-up netminder. I don't think a team sets out to lose on purpose and thats not what Hoyle meant. Not every GM would do this but the possibility exists. I'm sure you all understand what he meant but ofcourse its more fun to argue and belittle his points.

By the way not every posts I make is anti-canes...not even close but I do include very subliminal ( bring back the whale) items in some ( bring back the whale) of my posts. So, once again this is ( bring back the whale) the best part of the hockey ( bring back the whale) season, lets have some fun!!!!! :P

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I'm pretty sure there's been examples of a team intentionally tanking and the league cracking down on it. Didn't the Sens do something like that? The league took away their 1st round pick, if I remember correctly.

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I'm pretty sure there's been examples of a team intentionally tanking and the league cracking down on it. Didn't the Sens do something like that? The league took away their 1st round pick, if I remember correctly.

I think that happened in the NBA

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You accused me of having subliminal messages in my posts. I don't know how you'd prove that? But if you want to assume there are hidden meanings in my posts I can't change the way you think, but it certainly doesn't mean you are accurate when trying to tell me how I think.

I didn't accuse you, go back and look at some of your posts...not only do you point out the faults that the 'Canes have but also you take a stab at our division and/or just how lucky we should feel about our team's recent play of late. I'm not just talking about the posts you've made today either...I can remember quite a few times in the past that you've made sarcastic comments about our team...either trying to remind us just how bad we were or that the genuine excuses we had weren't good enough when compared to other teams in the league...namely the Habs. Yes you provide a different (and sometimes very valuable) opinion on our Carolina Hurricanes, but the fact is that at certain times you have rubbed some things in or at least made sure we knew of the division we played in...and honestly if you don't believe that some of yours posts have been biased and debasing then really why else do you think some people here have gotten on to you recently? I appreciate other viewpoints, just not ones that employ unnecessary discontent in them towards the team that they're talking about.

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Here's a post I found in another thread. If I had made a post like that I would be flamed and accused of "belittling" the canes and canes fans, but no one got offended by hctimo. That's my point.

And how would I be received if I were to start posting on the Habs board, constantly pointing out the negatives? "Well, Koivu's out. You guys are going to suck in the playoffs. You better hope he's back soon!" I doubt it would be long before I'd be banned.

Maybe you don't mean to bring this about, but you and FW have so many times in the past said things that insulted our team. So yeah, maybe the eggshells do break pretty easily, but it's for a very good reason. No, not every post you make has some sort of "hidden agenda", or swipe at the Canes. But we've heard enough that makes us very sensitive to every word you post here.

After all, we can go to other hockey forums to hear these exact kinds of things. I do, and I'm sure many of the other posters do as well. But this is a forum for Canes fans. Even here in the "Around the NHL". It's a forum for us Canes fans to talk about what is going on around the league. This isn't a place for fans of other teams to come to put us down. In fact, since many of us do read other forums of course we're going to take say a post about some cities not deserving a team, when we are often mentioned among those, even if you don't mention us we're going to be sensitive and maybe think it's a jab at us.

If fans of other teams want to complain about how our team stole their hopes because of injuries on their own board, then fine. But they better not come here and do it and expect us to agree.

If fans of other teams want to call our team "divers", they can do it on their own board, but they better not come here and do it and expect us to just take it.

If fans of other teams want to say we don't belong in the playoffs because of our record or our division being weak, they can do it on their board all they like. But they better not come here and do it.

While we do welcome fans of other teams, we expect to be shown some respect. This is OUR house. OUR forums. If you say something that can be taken as offensive, it most likely is, and someone is most likely going to say so. Just the same as in any other team's forums.

We may have Southern hospitality, but it still comes with its limits.

To get back on subject here, though, as for the "race for the bottom", yeah, I don't think that it exists as much as it used to since they've put in the lottery. I'm sure it does in some respects, but if you think Tampa, Atlanta, and Florida would rather roll over and let us win so they have a better chance of getting the top draft pick, as opposed to playing the possible spoiler of keeping us out of the playoffs, then I think you're sadly mistaken and don't have a clue as to the divisional rivalries that have developed here in the SE Division. I also think that's why they have made sure the end of the schedule is against divisional teams and not teams outside the division. If they were say against non-conference teams, then I could see a lot of dumping of games for draft picks.

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I think that happened in the NBA

Wouldn't know. Don't follow the NBA.

Hmmmm...I can't seem to find anything about the Senators, other than the rumors that they intentionally lost to draft Daigle ( :lol: ). It was after that draft that the lottery system was implimented.

There's also the rumors that the Pens tanked to draft Super Mario.

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I didn't accuse you, go back and look at some of your posts...not only do you point out the faults that the 'Canes have but also you take a stab at our division and/or just how lucky we should feel about our team's recent play of late. I'm not just talking about the posts you've made today either...I can remember quite a few times in the past that you've made sarcastic comments about our team...either trying to remind us just how bad we were or that the genuine excuses we had weren't good enough when compared to other teams in the league...namely the Habs. Yes you provide a different (and sometimes very valuable) opinion on our Carolina Hurricanes, but the fact is that at certain times you have rubbed some things in or at least made sure we knew of the division we played in...and honestly if you don't believe that some of yours posts have been biased and debasing then really why else do you think some people here have gotten on to you recently? I appreciate other viewpoints, just not ones that employ unnecessary discontent in them towards the team that they're talking about.

This is an outright lie, and I question whether or not you actually even read my post.

If anything I criticize the habs on here more then any Canes fan does....if you haven't notice that then I question the other things you say you remember in my posts. Most of the things you're saying hear are exaggerations and assumptions. It seems like you're selectively reading a few of my posts, looking at my avatar and then assuming the rest.

Do I think the SE is a weak division? YES, no different then how the Norris division was a weak division in the late 80s.

Do I rub it in your face? NO, this is an assumption.

The problem is every time i say something even remotely in opposition to the general consensus, someone immediately gets offended and i have to justify myself. And then as I'm explaining myself more and more people gang up against me. No one else in here seems to have to justify their point of view every single time someone disagrees with them. The amount of times people in here have thrown my nationality in my face for no apparent reason is ridiculous, but i just take it with stride. It'd be nice if people seen the injustice in that once in a while.

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And how would I be received if I were to start posting on the Habs board, constantly pointing out the negatives? "Well, Koivu's out. You guys are going to suck in the playoffs. You better hope he's back soon!" I doubt it would be long before I'd be banned.

Take a moment and surf through the Hab's message board. You probably couldn't make a criticism there that isn't already being argued by a number of Hab fans already.

http://forum.canadiens.com/index.php?showt...&start=4980[/post]

http://forum.canadiens.com/index.php?showt...t=0&start=0

Those are a couple threads you could start with.

I think the main difference here is the different attitudes between the two message boards. The Habs message board is more critical of their team and players then here. I'm sure FW can contest to that.

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This is an outright lie, and I question whether or not you actually even read my post.

If anything I criticize the habs on here more then any Canes fan does....if you haven't notice that then I question the other things you say you remember in my posts. Most of the things you're saying hear are exaggerations and assumptions. It seems like you're selectively reading a few of my posts, looking at my avatar and then assuming the rest.

Do I think the SE is a weak division? YES, no different then how the Norris division was a weak division in the late 80s.

Do I rub it in your face? NO, this is an assumption.

The problem is every time i say something even remotely in opposition to the general consensus, someone immediately gets offended and i have to justify myself. And then as I'm explaining myself more and more people gang up against me. No one else in here seems to have to justify their point of view every single time someone disagrees with them. The amount of times people in here have thrown my nationality in my face for no apparent reason is ridiculous, but i just take it with stride. It'd be nice if people seen the injustice in that once in a while.

Well this will be it for me, because I don't like to argue over things that apparently seem very intangible. I have read your posts for a long while, just like I read everyone else's posts...case in-point last fall your comments were generally acceptable here and drew no ire from anyone else...everything was fine then. Lately though your comments have been biased and ridden with mockery...and I'm not the only one that thinks this...just look above at another poster. So it's of no surprise that lately you've been getting flamed a lot...but I mean if you don't wanna believe that then fine...I wasn't bringing it up to make you go away or to stop posting here altogether...instead I was just offering a response as to why you felt that recently you haven't been the most popular person here.

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Wouldn't know. Don't follow the NBA.

Hmmmm...I can't seem to find anything about the Senators, other than the rumors that they intentionally lost to draft Daigle ( :lol: ). It was after that draft that the lottery system was implimented.

There's also the rumors that the Pens tanked to draft Super Mario.

I don't think the NHL lottery is that old. Is it? I can't find the first year it was used.

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Well this will be it for me, because I don't like to argue over things that apparently seem very intangible. I have read your posts for a long while, just like I read everyone else's posts...case in-point last fall your comments were generally acceptable here and drew no ire from anyone else...everything was fine then. Lately though your comments have been biased and ridden with mockery...and I'm not the only one that thinks this...just look above at another poster. So it's of no surprise that lately you've been getting flamed a lot...but I mean if you don't wanna believe that then fine...I wasn't bringing it up to make you go away or to stop posting here altogether...instead I was just offering a response as to why you felt that recently you haven't been the most popular person here.

I haven't been that active in here for the past few months, I'm not sure where you're getting this from?

I think I've made more posts in here tonight, then the entire past 2 months put together.

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This is an outright lie, and I question whether or not you actually even read my post.

If anything I criticize the habs on here more then any Canes fan does....if you haven't notice that then I question the other things you say you remember in my posts. Most of the things you're saying hear are exaggerations and assumptions. It seems like you're selectively reading a few of my posts, looking at my avatar and then assuming the rest.

Do I think the SE is a weak division? YES, no different then how the Norris division was a weak division in the late 80s.

Do I rub it in your face? NO, this is an assumption.

The problem is every time i say something even remotely in opposition to the general consensus, someone immediately gets offended and i have to justify myself. And then as I'm explaining myself more and more people gang up against me. No one else in here seems to have to justify their point of view every single time someone disagrees with them. The amount of times people in here have thrown my nationality in my face for no apparent reason is ridiculous, but i just take it with stride. It'd be nice if people seen the injustice in that once in a while.

That's enough. No one here has once brought your nationality up or thrown it against you. 1/3 of this board are Canadians (or displaced Canadians) and the board is run by someone from Toronto. You constantly use the "because I cheer for a different team" complaint but ask any of our Sabre fans how they're treated. Now there's a team most Canes fan really hate but why are they welcome members here...because they treat us with respect. How about Whatthepuck? She's a Habs fan and perhaps one of the most liked members around here who cheers for the Habs all the time on this board. She also treats us with respect. How about some of the Whaler fans that followed the Whale here after getting their hearts ripped out. Why are they so welcome, because they dont disrespect the Canes organization or us fans just because they lost their team, believe it or not they still consider this their team. You need more examples?

You can accuse us of not wanting to hear or being able to admit anything bad about our team but we all criticise ans acknowledge the shortcomings all the time. If you dont see that, you're not reading all the posts or reading them correctly. Pirate Caniac was spot on when she said that the around the NHL forum was for our members to discuss other teams and their happenings, its not a place for making sure we all understand the shortcomings of our division and our team. If you care to argue this point anymore, its time to take it to PM. I think everyone has had their say and the rest can be said if needed in PM.

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This is an outright lie, and I question whether or not you actually even read my post.

If anything I criticize the habs on here more then any Canes fan does....if you haven't notice that then I question the other things you say you remember in my posts. Most of the things you're saying hear are exaggerations and assumptions. It seems like you're selectively reading a few of my posts, looking at my avatar and then assuming the rest.

Do I think the SE is a weak division? YES, no different then how the Norris division was a weak division in the late 80s.

Do I rub it in your face? NO, this is an assumption.

The problem is every time i say something even remotely in opposition to the general consensus, someone immediately gets offended and i have to justify myself. And then as I'm explaining myself more and more people gang up against me. No one else in here seems to have to justify their point of view every single time someone disagrees with them. The amount of times people in here have thrown my nationality in my face for no apparent reason is ridiculous, but i just take it with stride. It'd be nice if people seen the injustice in that once in a while.

That's enough. No one here has once brought your nationality up or thrown it against you. 1/3 of this board are Canadians (or displaced Canadians) and the board is run by someone from Toronto. You constantly use the "because I cheer for a different team" complaint but ask any of our Sabre fans how they're treated. Now there's a team most Canes fan really hate but why are they welcome members here...because they treat us with respect. How about Whatthepuck? She's a Habs fan and perhaps one of the most liked members around here who cheers for the Habs all the time on this board. She also treats us with respect. How about some of the Whaler fans that followed the Whale here after getting their hearts ripped out. Why are they so welcome, because they dont disrespect the Canes organization or us fans just because they lost their team, believe it or not they still consider this their team. You need more examples?

You can accuse us of not wanting to hear or being able to admit anything bad about our team but we all criticise ans acknowledge the shortcomings all the time. If you dont see that, you're not reading all the posts or reading them correctly. Pirate Caniac was spot on when she said that the around the NHL forum was for our members to discuss other teams and their happenings, its not a place for making sure we all understand the shortcomings of our division and our team. If you care to argue this point anymore, its time to take it to PM. I think everyone has had their say and the rest can be said if needed in PM.

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I didn't accuse you, go back and look at some of your posts...not only do you point out the faults that the 'Canes have but also you take a stab at our division and/or just how lucky we should feel about our team's recent play of late. I'm not just talking about the posts you've made today either...I can remember quite a few times in the past that you've made sarcastic comments about our team...either trying to remind us just how bad we were or that the genuine excuses we had weren't good enough when compared to other teams in the league...namely the Habs. Yes you provide a different (and sometimes very valuable) opinion on our Carolina Hurricanes, but the fact is that at certain times you have rubbed some things in or at least made sure we knew of the division we played in...and honestly if you don't believe that some of yours posts have been biased and debasing then really why else do you think some people here have gotten on to you recently? I appreciate other viewpoints, just not ones that employ unnecessary discontent in them towards the team that they're talking about.

I remember one of Hoyles posts in the early season , his exact words were "the habs are an inferior team to the canes"...I was a little pissed at Hoyles for saying that but I didn't respond because it was early in the season and he could have been right.

What is wrong with him pointing out some of the faults of the canes team, I do the same. If it bothers you then the only reason it does is because exactly what Hoyle said " he is not a canes fan". There are plenty of canes fan who have said worse then him or I for that matter but where are your posts to them? We also can have an opinion on this division, which I'm sorry , is the weakest division in the league. Where most likely , the division leader will be the only one who qualifies for the playoffs. Its funny,his opinions can be valuable and you appreciate his viewpoints but at the same time you want him to shut up. which opinions to you find valuable? I'm sure only the ones that come close to your opinions.

Some of you need to realize that having a different viewpoint or opinion doesn't mean that person is "rubbing your nose in it". We are for the most part adults here and I'm sure we can understand and discuss different viewpoints without coming to heads and insulting each other but when members see mods have snide remarks for almost every post then that just opens the door for the others and in the end all "cane" fingers are pointing at the non cane member as the bad guy.......sorry but its true.

Look at what Hoyle posted from 3 pages to now and tell me how what he said can still be a topic of discussion on how he shouldn't have said it. I find the whole thing really funny. When I read a post that his somewhat negative to the canes be it from an anti-canite or a caniac , I just sit back and watch the lynch mob come, It usually takes awhile sometimes when it come from a caniac but a mere few seconds when it comes from an non caniac.

Its really weird being in here sometimes is like being in 3rd grade all over again . Theres the bully kids, the kids who make fun of everybody and the teacher who has her favorites.

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I remember one of Hoyles posts in the early season , his exact words were "the habs are an inferior team to the canes"...I was a little pissed at Hoyles for saying that but I didn't respond because it was early in the season and he could have been right.

What is wrong with him pointing out some of the faults of the canes team, I do the same. If it bothers you then the only reason it does is because exactly what Hoyle said " he is not a canes fan". There are plenty of canes fan who have said worse then him or I for that matter but where are your posts to them? We also can have an opinion on this division, which I'm sorry , is the weakest division in the league. Where most likely , the division leader will be the only one who qualifies for the playoffs. Its funny,his opinions can be valuable and you appreciate his viewpoints but at the same time you want him to shut up. which opinions to you find valuable? I'm sure only the ones that come close to your opinions.

Some of you need to realize that having a different viewpoint or opinion doesn't mean that person is "rubbing your nose in it". We are for the most part adults here and I'm sure we can understand and discuss different viewpoints without coming to heads and insulting each other but when members see mods have snide remarks for almost every post then that just opens the door for the others and in the end all "cane" fingers are pointing at the non cane member as the bad guy.......sorry but its true.

Look at what Hoyle posted from 3 pages to now and tell me how what he said can still be a topic of discussion on how he shouldn't have said it. I find the whole thing really funny. When I read a post that his somewhat negative to the canes be it from an anti-canite or a caniac , I just sit back and watch the lynch mob come, It usually takes awhile sometimes when it come from a caniac but a mere few seconds when it comes from an non caniac.

Its really weird being in here sometimes is like being in 3rd grade all over again . Theres the bully kids, the kids who make fun of everybody and the teacher who has her favorites.

So I guess you missed reading the request to take this to PM in the above post.

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I remember one of Hoyles posts in the early season , his exact words were "the habs are an inferior team to the canes"...I was a little pissed at Hoyles for saying that but I didn't respond because it was early in the season and he could have been right.

What is wrong with him pointing out some of the faults of the canes team, I do the same. If it bothers you then the only reason it does is because exactly what Hoyle said " he is not a canes fan". There are plenty of canes fan who have said worse then him or I for that matter but where are your posts to them? We also can have an opinion on this division, which I'm sorry , is the weakest division in the league. Where most likely , the division leader will be the only one who qualifies for the playoffs. Its funny,his opinions can be valuable and you appreciate his viewpoints but at the same time you want him to shut up. which opinions to you find valuable? I'm sure only the ones that come close to your opinions.

Some of you need to realize that having a different viewpoint or opinion doesn't mean that person is "rubbing your nose in it". We are for the most part adults here and I'm sure we can understand and discuss different viewpoints without coming to heads and insulting each other but when members see mods have snide remarks for almost every post then that just opens the door for the others and in the end all "cane" fingers are pointing at the non cane member as the bad guy.......sorry but its true.

Look at what Hoyle posted from 3 pages to now and tell me how what he said can still be a topic of discussion on how he shouldn't have said it. I find the whole thing really funny. When I read a post that his somewhat negative to the canes be it from an anti-canite or a caniac , I just sit back and watch the lynch mob come, It usually takes awhile sometimes when it come from a caniac but a mere few seconds when it comes from an non caniac.

Its really weird being in here sometimes is like being in 3rd grade all over again . Theres the bully kids, the kids who make fun of everybody and the teacher who has her favorites.

So I guess you missed reading the request to take this to PM in the above post.

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